Oi Oi wrote:You are one sick moron.
If you think I am the OP, you are wrong.
don't fret
ventolin^2 at 10:48AM is a piss-ant troll
not my style
Oi Oi wrote:You are one sick moron.
If you think I am the OP, you are wrong.
don't fret
ventolin^2 at 10:48AM is a piss-ant troll
not my style
He's not a Brit. He's a KENYAN who lived some time in the UK.
He made his nationality known when posting as Eldrik on the T&FN message boards. He was just as vile and offensive there. I'd say he's even more mad now.
Now you know why he thinks Lagat could run 2:11 for 1000m (if he hadn't picked his nose at 600m), Kiplugat 1:41 for 800m in 1974 (if he hadn't run on a marshmallow track) Kiprop 3:27 with a bloody wabbitt (but only if it was called Bugs Bunny) this year, why no Kenyan has ever doped and all the runners of the 1980's did, etc, etc,........yawn, yawn,.....
epopians wrote:He's not a Brit. He's a KENYAN who lived some time in the UK
no
He made his nationality known when posting as Eldrik on the T&FN message boards.
who ?
He was just as vile and offensive there. I'd say he's even more mad now
standard letsscurry badinage
if it's too strong for your sensibilities, then f*** off to your momma
Now you know why he thinks Lagat could run 2:11 for 1000m
same as hicham - the 3 are virtually interchangeable at 800/1k
remember moron - hicham has worse 800pb than bernie
if bernie is a "1'46" guy, hicham's 1'47 means he's obviously his inferior despite 53s finish in a 3'26.00
(if he hadn't picked his nose at 600m)
no
it was balking at ~150m out - watch the vid idiot
Kiplugat
who the f*** you talking about moron ???
i know a kipkurgat
1:41 for 800m in 1974
no
moron
i said 1'42-flat
1'41 may have been his ability at point-pierre some months after christchurch when that may have been best shape of his life & he ran an incredible race to not just get the record, but obliterate it, but misjudged it badly, but suffice to say he destroyed boit who later came within 1/10th of wr also & walker who never ran a faster 800 again in kiwi to show his pedigree
(if he hadn't run on a marshmallow track)
moron
it was wind - listen to doyen of commentators, coleman's word
Kiprop 3:27 with a bloody wabbitt (but only if it was called Bugs Bunny) this year
moron
1'44.71 -> 1'43.17
that's a 1.54s improvement, which if he'd had a global improvement commensurate in all events:
-> 3'31.64 - (15/8)*1.54 = 3'28.75
& he's a better 1500 runner than 800
why no Kenyan has ever doped and all the runners of the 1980's
name the list & offences
did, etc, etc,........yawn, yawn,.....
i'm afraid you are offering the drivel - see your post
Ventolin - you are a moron, a stupid filthy moron. You are a piece of s%$$#. you are a vile creature.
Bekele is faster than Lagat.
Many Kenyans do drugs.
You are a moron.
A vile, filthy moron. Very low iq. You are very stupid. You never post smart thing. Moron.
CzechGuy wrote:Mr. Moron, you don't have to sign your name above every post. We know your name already
moron
get that dissociative personality looked at
i'm referring to you idiot
And as for Rosa, one of his athletes has been caught already. So what's the matter?
idiot
1 athlete with full 2y ban offence out of 500+ athletes he's represented in ~ 20y
he even demanded b test as he didn't believe any of his charges woud dope
I would actually want to ask Mr. Rosa for several questions
as he's just likely to demand action against you idiot, let me style as an advocate
When did some strangely improving athletes join his team?
what is this drivel supposed to mean ???
define it
mathematically
What an innovatory training did he implement that they started to improve so dramatically over a single winter?
moron
he is an agent, not a trainer
try again
improvement over a single winter ???
where is the 95% confidence limits ???
the chi-square to "prove" disparate populations ???
show me some proper numbers moron
Was Chepchumba's positive test her private renegade action?
1 big +ve out of 500+ in ~20y ?
have you got her psychological profile ??
Why wasn't she fired from the team?
how about :
he didn't believe she woud dope & believed it was false +ve, same as caused iaaf/wada to withdraw in '03 their boastful inviolability of +ve test study ???
go fetch it
Or was it only some "technicality" or "a metabolic disorder"?
see above idiot
Why do only endurance athletes suffer from such EPO-related technicalities and disorders?
moron
marion jones had +ve a & -ve b
your premise is complete nonsense
And why can't other Africans consistently reach the times of the best runners - as it was the case in the past?
learn some better stats idiot
- standard deviation
- z scores
- confidence limits
- chi square
apply them to your schoolboy numbers, then come back moron
If he explains these things to me in a trustworthy manner, I am willing to apologize to him. But I think it is pretty unlikely
no
moron
he'd likely ask the mods to explain themselves rather than you, a piss-ant, but you might get lucky & his piss strays on you ant
And a private question for you: Have you ever been hospitalized in a lunatic asylum? Thanks
moron
i've signed enough forms to get them droperidoled, jacketed & sent there
i coudn't do that that to you, because under mental hendicap laws you'd have to be sent to a kindergarden for 4y before we coud get your i q up enough to send you to one
By the way, thank you for the link to Rosa's and Hermen's team. I have never imagined that things would be simple and clear.
i'm sure that you will suffer their consequences...
ventolin^2,
Just stop with the f***ing name calling already.
The OP did not start out calling names every paragraph as you do.
All you are doing is making your self look like an angry pissant, and lending more credibility to the OP's angle.
As to the OP's beliefs, they are interesting, and worth considering, whether they are correct or not.
I wonder if the OP believes alan webb was doping in 2007? Or do only east africans dope?
Moron beat Idiot 7 to 5 in that last ventolin post. Great stuff.
Certain people metabolize drugs significantly faster than others. This rate can be over 3 times faster than the average individual. The highest concentration of those genetically predisposed to metabolizing drugs at this ridiculously fast rate live in East Africa, specifically Kenya. This does not mean that Kenyans dope. It means large portions of their population will be much harder to catch, especially if they are intermittently doping, especially with something with a particularly short half-life, like EPO. EPO is also not an expensive drug when obtained legally. I thought the people in this discussion should know this random fact of the week.
May I ask how it was determined that East Africans metabolize drugs three times faster than the average individual (does this mean Europeans or Asians?)?
Did this random fact come from a specific medical study?
Random fact of the week wrote:
Certain people metabolize drugs significantly faster than others. This rate can be over 3 times faster than the average individual.
eh ??
you offering something 450-esque & induction ???
what chromosome is it on ??
The highest concentration of those genetically predisposed to metabolizing drugs at this ridiculously fast rate live in East Africa, specifically Kenya. This does not mean that Kenyans dope. It means large portions of their population will be much harder to catch, especially if they are intermittently doping, especially with something with a particularly short half-life, like EPO
eh ?
answer above
EPO is also not an expensive drug when obtained legally.
bullshit
it costs huge amounts to get bona fide
I thought the people in this discussion should know this random fact of the week.
thanks for nothing
Random fact of the week wrote:
Certain people metabolize drugs significantly faster than others. This rate can be over 3 times faster than the average individual. The highest concentration of those genetically predisposed to metabolizing drugs at this ridiculously fast rate live in East Africa, specifically Kenya. This does not mean that Kenyans dope. It means large portions of their population will be much harder to catch, especially if they are intermittently doping, especially with something with a particularly short half-life, like EPO. EPO is also not an expensive drug when obtained legally. I thought the people in this discussion should know this random fact of the week.
"Fast Metablizers," is a medical fact.
But where do you get that East Africa has a higher concentration of such humans.
Provide a source.
ventolin - nice posts...thanks for keeping this discussion real.
"For once Ventolin is talking sense"
And I thought that Ventolin9 was just smoking some very good stuff.
No, Ethiopians don't have a physiological advantage over Europeans only at altitude! They have it at sea level, too! And if they don't, they have it at least at altitude!
LOL
And remember, infusion of thickened blood is not dangerous at all! Well...it is dangerous, but only with 50+ hematocrit and extreme dehydratation!
And Tergat was in the best shape, because he had thought he was in the best shape!
In a discussion with an emotional crackpot, it is advisable to keep a cold head. He will trap himself into his own contradictory "counteragruments" after a while, and effectively discredits himself.
By the way, the "false EPO positives" show that the old EPO test may in fact be pretty good. But it only wasn't bulletproof. Marion Jones herself confessed that she had taken EPO. And the names of the alleged "unjustly tested" athletes that I saw all came from endurance sports. What a coincidence!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2005/sep/20/athletics.sport
Not many shotputters, long jumpers or weightlifters suffering from EPO-related metabolic disorders!
http://bloodjournal.hematologylibrary.org/cgi/reprint/108/5/1778-a
It's a farce!
So we can safely add Mr. Lagat here.
By the way, have you heard that doping is almost non-existent at Tour de France? I read it...well, maybe 15 years ago. I strongly believe that it is still true.
And Marion Jones is 100% innocent. She went through 160 doping tests as clean, which is an unofficial world record, I think.
CzechGuy wrote:
No, Ethiopians don't have a physiological advantage over Europeans only at altitude! They have it at sea level, too! And if they don't, they have it at least at altitude!
This may be to what ventolin is referring, it's floated around the internet for a while. The critical parts are highlighted for the forum.
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2002 Dec 24;99(26):17215-8. Epub 2002 Dec 05. Related Articles, Links
An Ethiopian pattern of human adaptation to high-altitude hypoxia.
Beall CM, Decker MJ, Brittenham GM, Kushner I, Gebremedhin A, Strohl KP.
Department of Anthropology, Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH 44106, USA.
cmb2@po.cwru.eduWe describe, in Ethiopia, a third successful pattern of human adaptation to high-altitude hypoxia that contrasts with both the Andean "classic" (erythrocytosis with arterial hypoxemia) and the more recently identified Tibetan (normal venous hemoglobin concentration with arterial hypoxemia) patterns. A field survey of 236 Ethiopian native residents at 3,530 m (11,650 feet), 14-86 years of age, without evidence of iron deficiency, hemoglobinopathy, or chronic inflammation, found an average hemoglobin concentration of 15.9 and 15.0 gdl for males and
females, respectively, and an average oxygen saturation of hemoglobin of 95.3%. Thus, Ethiopian highlanders maintain venous hemoglobin concentrations and arterial oxygen saturation within the ranges of sea level populations, despite the unavoidable, universal decrease in the ambient oxygen tension at high altitude.
PMID: 12471159 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
This sample of high-altitude native residents from the Semien Plateau of Ethiopia had hemoglobin concentrations that differed little from sea level values. The similar findings of erythropoietin concentration and oxygen saturation in the normal sea level range were consistent. The findings would not be remarkable if this were a sea level sample, but it is a sample of people exposed to chronic, lifelong hypobaric hypoxia. Ethiopians must have unique adaptations of oxygen uptake or delivery that result in the absence of an hypoxemic stimulus to increase red blood cell production and hemoglobin concentration despite their high-altitude residence.
The results of this study suggest that Ethiopian high-altitude natives respond to hypobaric hypoxia differently than Andean or Tibetan highlanders. This Ethiopian sample resembles samples from the Tibetan Plateau in exhibiting little or no elevation of hemoglobin concentration in this altitude range, but differs from Tibetans who have very low oxygen saturation. It differs from Andean high-altitude natives who exhibited both substantial elevation of hemoglobin concentration and low oxygen saturation. These findings suggest there are three patterns of adaptation to high-altitude hypoxia among indigenous populations (Table 1). Learning why the three populations differ will require two lines of future investigation. One is understanding the biological mechanisms and the underlying genetics that allow successful high-altitude adaptation with quantitatively different suites of traits for oxygen sensing, response, and delivery. The other is understanding the evolutionary processes that produced these patterns to explain how and why several successful human adaptations to high altitude evolved.
This is why I was referring to. But nobody probably bothered to click on the link.
Remember please that altitude adaptations may not necessarily mean a sports advantage at sea level. In fact, the extreme adaptations we see e.g. in Andean natives are actually detrimental for sports performance at sea level (low anaerobic capacity, the shift from fat oxidation to glucose oxidation which subsequently limits ATP production.)
I don't think that anyone here has mentioned Andeans, and the study shows that Ethiopians have a different adaptation to hypobaric environments than either Andeans or Tibetans, with Ethiopians showing on average sea-level hemocrit counts, while showing high oxygen saturation levels. This would suggest that the red blood cells in Ethiopians are better at bonding to oxygen than the others cited. It very well could be that the average Ethiopian has standard hemocrit counts with this efficient oxygen bonding process and that their superstars have the efficient bonding in addition to a higher than usual hemocrit count. I don't know how you could see red blood cells more efficiently bonding to oxygen as a disadvantage in endurance sports.
ventolin^2 wrote:
epopians wrote:He's not a Brit. He's a KENYAN who lived some time in the UKno
Lol! Are you saying NO to being a Kenyan, or to living in the UK?
You have acknowledged yourself to being Kenyan on here before, and to having spent time in London. I can't really be bothered to look up when, but it's a shame you can't acknowledge your roots.
You did put this though on a recent thread about Henry Rono:-
"King Henry
You must have some inkling of what you think you could have run for 1500, 3k, 5k & 10k from '78 -> '84 under ideal circumstances/progression
It would be an immense privilege to hear your thoughts !
( BTW, my father was Keino's boss in the Police back in mid/late '60s )
Simba Marrara !!!"
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3221635&page=2ventolin^2 wrote:
He made his nationality known when posting as Eldrik on the T&FN message boards.who ?
Well all that ganga you profess to take must have affected your memory!
;0)