This place must be largely made up of "douchebags" then because most of the speculation about championship races is who will win - Ingebrigtsen, Hocker, Kerr, Laros etc. Good to know that you're above all that - it doesn't matter to you. So what does, out of curiosity?
Its obvious that this messageboard is dominated by douchebags. Thats quite different to who actually reads it.
What matters to me is what actually happens, not what you want to happen in your pathetic fantasies. Try enjoying reality. Then you wouldn't be so angry.
I'm angry? That's a puzzling take. Often sceptical would fit better.
I'm not arguing for what I think should happen but what I think might happen - or has happened. I don't have "fantasies" about any of that. In top level competitive sports I'm interested in the outcome - I assume most are. Where I differ from a lot of fans is my informed perspective that it is now almost impossible to remove doping as a factor in the outcome. That's one of the biggest changes I've seen in pro sports over the last half century.
For all that want to compare the career of Nader with that of Jake Wightman, at the same age :
WIGHTMAN
21y : 1'47"36 - 3'40"05 (plus 48"74 in 400m)
22y : 1'47"13 - 3'36"64 (plus 48"34)
23y : 1'45"42 - 3'34"17 (plus 30'29" in 10 km road)
24y : 1'44"61 - 3'33"96
25y : 1'45"08 - 3'31"87
26y : 1'44"18 - 3'29"47
NADER
21y : 1'47"93 - 3'39"97
22y : 1'46"42 - 3'37"81 (plus 29'21" in 10 km road)
23y : 1'47"16 - 3'37"80 (plus 7'53"40 in 3000m indoor)
24y : 1'45"32 - 3'31"48
25y : 1'45"11 - 3'30"84 (plus 29'07" in 10 km road)
26y : 1'43"86 - 3'29"37 (plus 28'01" in 10 km road)
The big change in Nader was when he started to be coached by Enrique Pascual. He gave more space to the aerobic training of high quality in winter (till running 10 km in 28'01" in January this year) for supporting more volume of specific speed.
The development of the career is very similar the one of Jake Wightman, so it's not possible to say that Isaac Nader "came from nowhere".
It's funny how any athletes with a normal development in his career who is not British or American "comes from nowhere", also if is already one of the best in the world.
This only shows that the most part of people speaks without any knowledge of the global world, thinking that they are at the center of the world.
In athletics is not so difficult to know the reality : there are times and meters, and the statistics can offer a good help before speaking. But nothing help who is lazy, and sometimes also arrogant, and prisoner of his opinion based on fried air.
So perhaps you could make the same informed comparison between the rate of doping violations in Kenya, whose athletes you coach, and those in other Western countries. I know it won't be fried air. Probably something more performance enhancing.
You are as the most 'part of politicians : when asked how to face some problem, the reply is "this was when you were at the government", and never answer you question.
We were speaking about Nader and Weighman, not about Kenya, and the comparison was not between Kenyan and Western athletes. For compare what they do, firstly you need to know something better about their conditions of life, for understanding that no more than 10% of the banned athletes are voluntary doped, but the higher part are banned for whereabouts violation, or steroids present in supplement coming from Asian Countries (supposed to be legal), or doped with natural herbs part of their tradition. They are doped according to the rules, but I cannot accept their criminalization when their ban depends on their mistakes in bona fide. I'm the first condamning doping of the remaining 10% who WANT to dope for having advantage. I'm included in 8 different blogs, and I can see the considerations of Kenyan people about doping and their athletes, and there is really something interesting to learn.
You are as the most 'part of politicians : when asked how to face some problem, the reply is "this was when you were at the government", and never answer you question.
We were speaking about Nader and Weighman, not about Kenya, and the comparison was not between Kenyan and Western athletes. For compare what they do, firstly you need to know something better about their conditions of life, for understanding that no more than 10% of the banned athletes are voluntary doped, but the higher part are banned for whereabouts violation, or steroids present in supplement coming from Asian Countries (supposed to be legal), or doped with natural herbs part of their tradition. They are doped according to the rules, but I cannot accept their criminalization when their ban depends on their mistakes in bona fide. I'm the first condamning doping of the remaining 10% who WANT to dope for having advantage. I'm included in 8 different blogs, and I can see the considerations of Kenyan people about doping and their athletes, and there is really something interesting to learn.
It still doesn't explain the strange discrepancy between hundreds of Kenyan athletes incurring doping violations and far far fewer western athletes.
We will not agree about Nader. He is like so many athletes who suddenly make it to the top - many in their mid and late twenties - after having done little of note for years previously. He reminds me of Katir, Ramzi and Kiprop. With his finish I would add Makhloufi, who I wouldn't give a bar for trusting he is clean.
You are against the evidence. Go to the confrontation of the career of Nader and Wightman at the same age, and tell me where you find some difference.
Wightman showed a steady build up of improvement from a relatively slow start. He wasn't seen as a dark horse when he won the WC. He was already a known quantity. So it wasn't the kind of 'WTF' response Nader's victory has had. His years of battling with injury explain his subsequent decline, just as his recovery explains his return to the top level of his event.
But ask yourself this question: why has no one who follows the sport been surprised at what he has achieved while Nader has provoked astonishment and disbelief here - as well as immediate speculation about he has done it? Their two cases aren't the same. Add to that Nader's background in coming from a country (Morocco) that has had significant doping issues as well as coaches with doping question marks elicits further scepticism. He looks too good to be true (including his off the charts finish) - but only now and at these Games. It reminds of runners like Katir and Ramzi. I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out like them.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
You are against the evidence. Go to the confrontation of the career of Nader and Wightman at the same age, and tell me where you find some difference.
Wightman showed a steady build up of improvement from a relatively slow start. He wasn't seen as a dark horse when he won the WC. He was already a known quantity. So it wasn't the kind of 'WTF' response Nader's victory has had. His years of battling with injury explain his subsequent decline, just as his recovery explains his return to the top level of his event.
But ask yourself this question: why has no one who follows the sport been surprised at what he has achieved while Nader has provoked astonishment and disbelief here - as well as immediate speculation about he has done it? Their two cases aren't the same. Add to that Nader's background in coming from a country (Morocco) that has had significant doping issues as well as coaches with doping question marks elicits further scepticism. He looks too good to be true (including his off the charts finish) - but only now and at these Games. It reminds of runners like Katir and Ramzi. I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out like them.
He was absolutely seen as a dark horse in 22. Just weeks earlier Jakob beat him by nearly 4 seconds in the mile. He did not even make the final in the Tokoyo Olympics the year before.
He was absolutely seen as a dark horse in 22. Just weeks earlier Jakob beat him by nearly 4 seconds in the mile. He did not even make the final in the Tokoyo Olympics the year before.
Wightman absolutely was in the Tokyo Olympic final. He finished 10th.
He was absolutely seen as a dark horse in 22. Just weeks earlier Jakob beat him by nearly 4 seconds in the mile. He did not even make the final in the Tokoyo Olympics the year before.
Wightman absolutely was in the Tokyo Olympic final. He finished 10th.
If that was the best he had shown before his WC victory there would have been questions about him. I would have been one of those asking them.
Isaac Nader ran a great race. Everyone else ran a very poor tactical race.
Faith ran her 1500m race much better. Too bad that the men haven't figured that out.
I would argue Wightman and even the two Cheruiyot ran great. Wightman actually had the best tactics out of the field, it's just that Nader was too good.
Wightman showed a steady build up of improvement from a relatively slow start. He wasn't seen as a dark horse when he won the WC. He was already a known quantity. So it wasn't the kind of 'WTF' response Nader's victory has had. His years of battling with injury explain his subsequent decline, just as his recovery explains his return to the top level of his event.
But ask yourself this question: why has no one who follows the sport been surprised at what he has achieved while Nader has provoked astonishment and disbelief here - as well as immediate speculation about he has done it? Their two cases aren't the same. Add to that Nader's background in coming from a country (Morocco) that has had significant doping issues as well as coaches with doping question marks elicits further scepticism. He looks too good to be true (including his off the charts finish) - but only now and at these Games. It reminds of runners like Katir and Ramzi. I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out like them.
He was absolutely seen as a dark horse in 22. Just weeks earlier Jakob beat him by nearly 4 seconds in the mile. He did not even make the final in the Tokoyo Olympics the year before.
Everybody was a dark horse against Jakob in 22. Wightman had just easily outsprinted Kerr (the Olympic bronze medallist) in the UK trials. He had as good a chance as anyone, and he took it.
He was absolutely seen as a dark horse in 22. Just weeks earlier Jakob beat him by nearly 4 seconds in the mile. He did not even make the final in the Tokoyo Olympics the year before.
Wightman absolutely was in the Tokyo Olympic final. He finished 10th.
You are against the evidence. Go to the confrontation of the career of Nader and Wightman at the same age, and tell me where you find some difference.
Wightman showed a steady build up of improvement from a relatively slow start. He wasn't seen as a dark horse when he won the WC. He was already a known quantity. So it wasn't the kind of 'WTF' response Nader's victory has had. His years of battling with injury explain his subsequent decline, just as his recovery explains his return to the top level of his event.
But ask yourself this question: why has no one who follows the sport been surprised at what he has achieved while Nader has provoked astonishment and disbelief here - as well as immediate speculation about he has done it? Their two cases aren't the same. Add to that Nader's background in coming from a country (Morocco) that has had significant doping issues as well as coaches with doping question marks elicits further scepticism. He looks too good to be true (including his off the charts finish) - but only now and at these Games. It reminds of runners like Katir and Ramzi. I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out like them.
Nader is not from Morocco, you ignorant ass. He is Portuguese, born in Faro from a Portuguese mother.
You are against the evidence. Go to the confrontation of the career of Nader and Wightman at the same age, and tell me where you find some difference.
Wightman showed a steady build up of improvement from a relatively slow start. He wasn't seen as a dark horse when he won the WC. He was already a known quantity. So it wasn't the kind of 'WTF' response Nader's victory has had. His years of battling with injury explain his subsequent decline, just as his recovery explains his return to the top level of his event.
But ask yourself this question: why has no one who follows the sport been surprised at what he has achieved while Nader has provoked astonishment and disbelief here - as well as immediate speculation about he has done it? Their two cases aren't the same. Add to that Nader's background in coming from a country (Morocco) that has had significant doping issues as well as coaches with doping question marks elicits further scepticism. He looks too good to be true (including his off the charts finish) - but only now and at these Games. It reminds of runners like Katir and Ramzi. I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out like them.
This is the synthesis of what what I call the "VictorianCrap World"..
You are living in your own Island, if ever you come close we will tame you as we have tamed other nations.
The Italian are cool people.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
If that was the best he had shown before his WC victory there would have been questions about him. I would have been one of those asking them.
Yes, in fairness to Wightman, he finished 5th at the 2019 WC at age 25.
In fairness to Nader, he was a similar caliber athlete last year at age 25 as Wightman was in 2019 at the same age, as Coach Canova demonstrated with their PBs. The biggest differences were:
Nader ran his best race of the year in May with a 3:30 4th place finish in Oslo, and Wightman saved his best for the WC final where he ran 3:31 to take 5th. (Side note: they had remarkably similar results in July, 5 years apart. In 2019, Wightman ran 3:34.40 to finish 9th in Lausanne, nearly 6 seconds behind Tim Cheruiyot's 3:28.77. In 2024, Nader ran 3:34.42 to finish 11th in Monaco, nearly 6 seconds behind Tim's 3:28.71! Jakob was even faster in the latter race, with his 3:26).
Wightman benefited from the time qualifier system along with weaker competition at the 2019 WC than Nader faced at the 2024 Olympics, which enabled Wightman to reach the final. In Wightman's 2019 WC semi, he finished 7th in 3:36. That time got him the last small q entry into the final. In Nader's 2024 semi, he finished 8th in 3:34. If the current system in which only the top 6 in each semi advance to the final were in place in 2019, 25-year-old Wightman would have been eliminated in the semis just like 25-year-old Nader.
Re: their WC wins, both men's victories were considered huge surprises. The discussion board threads and reaction to Wightman's 2019 win reflect that. The LRC article covering the race used the word "Stuns" in its headline, and the NBC Sports YouTube video of the race has "SHOCKING UPSET" in all caps in its title.
Not a chance in the world Nader wasn’t p*sing hot in post-race drug testing. You know doping when you see it, and this is it. Not microdosing either. This is full blown 90s EPO.
One reason why we have so many doping cases in Kenya is simply the fact that we have far more top athletes than in Western countries. For example, last year—or, well, we had five times as many doping cases in Kenya as in the USA. But in Kenya, we also have 21 times as many marathon runners who ran under 2 hours 10 last year than in the entire USA combined. And in no other country are there so many athletes who are tested so frequently and strictly as in Kenya. That’s why it’s clear that, naturally, more people are also caught.
And as Renato Canova already correctly said, you can’t compare doping in Kenya with doping in Europe. I’m from Germany, I was in Kenya, training, had a cold, and went to the pharmacy. The pharmacist gave me nasal drops and a pill—no packaging, no leaflet. He just cut a single pill out of the blister and put it in my hand. When I got home and looked up these medications online—the nasal drops and the tablet—they turned out to be ordinary cold medicine. But they contained substances that would test positive in a doping test.
As an educated German athlete, of course I wouldn’t have taken something like that, but a perhaps naive Kenyan, who hasn’t been in school since elementary, would most likely take it without questioning it.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
One reason why we have so many doping cases in Kenya is simply the fact that we have far more top athletes than in Western countries. For example, last year—or, well, we had five times as many doping cases in Kenya as in the USA. But in Kenya, we also have 21 times as many marathon runners who ran under 2 hours 10 last year than in the entire USA combined. And in no other country are there so many athletes who are tested so frequently and strictly as in Kenya. That’s why it’s clear that, naturally, more people are also caught.
And as Renato Canova already correctly said, you can’t compare doping in Kenya with doping in Europe. I’m from Germany, I was in Kenya, training, had a cold, and went to the pharmacy. The pharmacist gave me nasal drops and a pill—no packaging, no leaflet. He just cut a single pill out of the blister and put it in my hand. When I got home and looked up these medications online—the nasal drops and the tablet—they turned out to be ordinary cold medicine. But they contained substances that would test positive in a doping test.
As an educated German athlete, of course I wouldn’t have taken something like that, but a perhaps naive Kenyan, who hasn’t been in school since elementary, would most likely take it without questioning it.
There is more antidoping testing in Kenya because it is seen to have a serious doping problem. It has been targeted. That is why more of their athletes are caught.