Crazy Seth took second given the state he was in earlier this year and the apparent stupidity of his training methods. Hope he enjoys running without youtube and racing Pikes peak. Maybe it was easier to put his head down and so more sensible training without youtube.
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152
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A good weekend for Seth. This is a good result. I’m not certain, but I’m guessing this is his first double. Coming in 4th to the year Remi breaks Matt’s record on the Ascent and coming in second in the ‘Thon shows this race is his running sweet spot. If he can stay injury free and focus his training to peak for this race he should be able to put in more good results into his early forties.
135 -
Shoulda saved yesterdays ascent for today and won.
83 -
beer barf wrote:
Ackley wrote:
Sage has given Seth some credit in the past, but there is definitely bad blood flowing from Sage to Seth so that is why a good day for Seth was not mentioned by Sage.
I just put the live feed on for the Marathon because the leader should be at the top soon, but the feed is buffering and stuck at 1:55.
I'm going to assume SJD's training was stupid as usual, in which case this was actually a really good weekend for him. I still feel a little sad about how much wasted potential there is with him, but hey, maybe he can give it one more shot. From Twitter and other sources, the general vibe is that he is done with YouTube. Hoping he reboots and gives it one more shot, doing it right this time.
Sage has been nothing but a sore manchild with respect to SJD. Seth has literally never mentioned Sage in any of his vlogs. He has never written about Sage anywhere online. In fact, the only public interaction I remember is Seth leaving a polite comment of sympathy on one of Sage's videos (don't remember if it was the fire or health issue). Seth is a classy guy in that sense.
Whereas Sage has attacked Seth publicly, made a stupid video mocking him, constantly needs to emphasize they are "not in the same league" because Sage ran a 2:18 while Seth is only a 2:22 marathoner (on really stupid training and little rest, BTW). Any thread about SJD will have at least one interjection by Sage redirecting everyone's attention to his "accomplishments". Absolutely disgusting vile behavior.
Seth actually use to train relatively quite smart for PP. With speed on trails and FKT attempts etc.
It was his Marathon training and the 50k in winter where it went haywire
91 -
Oooooopppplsssss wrote:
Shoulda saved yesterdays ascent for today and won.
Possibly.
Before his (seemingly permanent) sabbatical from Youtube, I believe he mentioned that he was considering an OTQ-attempt at CIM. I wonder if he still is.
This weekend's double and the fact that he competed with Aziz (a 2:15 marathoner) today for 21 miles shows he has largely regained peak fitness.
192 -
Ackley wrote:
Oooooopppplsssss wrote:
Shoulda saved yesterdays ascent for today and won.
Possibly.
Before his (seemingly permanent) sabbatical from Youtube, I believe he mentioned that he was considering an OTQ-attempt at CIM. I wonder if he still is.
This weekend's double and the fact that he competed with Aziz (a 2:15 marathoner) today for 21 miles shows he has largely regained peak fitness.
Good job Seth
140 -
Social media shilling slows down all runners.. congrats to seth for a nice come back
72 -
It was fantastic to see Seth coming in second in Manitou Springs.
And now we go to Andy's.
53 -
beer barf wrote:
Ackley wrote:
Sage has given Seth some credit in the past, but there is definitely bad blood flowing from Sage to Seth so that is why a good day for Seth was not mentioned by Sage.
I just put the live feed on for the Marathon because the leader should be at the top soon, but the feed is buffering and stuck at 1:55.
I'm going to assume SJD's training was stupid as usual, in which case this was actually a really good weekend for him. I still feel a little sad about how much wasted potential there is with him, but hey, maybe he can give it one more shot. From Twitter and other sources, the general vibe is that he is done with YouTube. Hoping he reboots and gives it one more shot, doing it right this time.
Sage has been nothing but a sore manchild with respect to SJD. Seth has literally never mentioned Sage in any of his vlogs. He has never written about Sage anywhere online. In fact, the only public interaction I remember is Seth leaving a polite comment of sympathy on one of Sage's videos (don't remember if it was the fire or health issue). Seth is a classy guy in that sense.
Whereas Sage has attacked Seth publicly, made a stupid video mocking him, constantly needs to emphasize they are "not in the same league" because Sage ran a 2:18 while Seth is only a 2:22 marathoner (on really stupid training and little rest, BTW). Any thread about SJD will have at least one interjection by Sage redirecting everyone's attention to his "accomplishments". Absolutely disgusting vile behavior.
I'm sorry you feel that way.
For record in the past, I have written on here that Seth is a very, very good high altitude uphill runner. I've also written on here that I think Seth has always had (has?) the running talent to run a sub 2:18 marathon and OTQ.
As far as me making a youtube video satire of some of his youtube antics? Yeah, I did that. I make videos that highlight how ridiculous some things are that shoetubers film and post on social media as part of a "vlog" or "influencer lyfe" etc. I've for sure criticized him for illegal drone flying and how dangerous it is to film and drive so much for vlog.
He had a great double this weekend and Pikes is certainly his niche/strength event I'd say (especially the uphill). It's worth noting his marathon winning time/PR there from a few years ago is about 1-2min faster than my best time there.
He's also known to post stuff on social media like this (when he set a "Strava FKT" up the less common "Avalanche route" on Mt. Yale....which apparently I had had before him while doing a fun run/filming jog right after I did Pikes that year):But my main point of posting on this thread is how ridiculous (and how much of an outlier)that 3:16 marathon CR from Matt is. And yes, my point was that Matt split the Ascent in 2:01 en route during that....so comparing Remi's 2:00 (only all-out on the uphill) just puts that in perspective.
3011 -
S. Canaday wrote:
But my main point of posting on this thread is how ridiculous (and how much of an outlier)that 3:16 marathon CR from Matt is. And yes, my point was that Matt split the Ascent in 2:01 en route during that....so comparing Remi's 2:00 (only all-out on the uphill) just puts that in perspective.
Sage, not sure what your point about Matt's record is. Are you disparaging it or applauding it?
I think you are ignoring the context of the 1993 race. In 1992 Matt was at the summit in 2:05 but was passed by Ricardo Mejia who ran 2:08 up and 1:16 down that day (3:24), totally destroying Carpenter. Matt became obsessed with that not happening again and dedicated much of the next year to being ready for the 1993 race. It was in his backyard. Mejia was a generational talent and they had many battles over the years. It was going to take a dedicated effort to beat him. Matt's 3:16 was the result.
As far as Remi's times which you quote (2019), he went through a tough period in the few years after his first Pikes Peak Marathon victory in 2017. He was young in 2017 and 6 years later is much more experienced, in his prime and injury free.
The weather for the Ascent this year was nearly perfect. Much cooler than the super-hot day we had in 2019 for the Marathon, when the temp and barometric pressure made it feel like 17,000 feet instead of 14,000. I remember you also dedicated a lot of time and effort into preparing for that 2019 race and your 2nd place was a great result.
95 -
TheMarkT wrote:
Sage, not sure what your point about Matt's record is. Are you disparaging it or applauding it?
I think you are ignoring the context of the 1993 race. In 1992 Matt was at the summit in 2:05 but was passed by Ricardo Mejia who ran 2:08 up and 1:16 down that day (3:24), totally destroying Carpenter. Matt became obsessed with that not happening again and dedicated much of the next year to being ready for the 1993 race. It was in his backyard. Mejia was a generational talent and they had many battles over the years. It was going to take a dedicated effort to beat him. Matt's 3:16 was the result.
As far as Remi's times which you quote (2019), he went through a tough period in the few years after his first Pikes Peak Marathon victory in 2017. He was young in 2017 and 6 years later is much more experienced, in his prime and injury free.
The weather for the Ascent this year was nearly perfect. Much cooler than the super-hot day we had in 2019 for the Marathon, when the temp and barometric pressure made it feel like 17,000 feet instead of 14,000. I remember you also dedicated a lot of time and effort into preparing for that 2019 race and your 2nd place was a great result.
Thanks for this gem of a comment. I always appreciate when people put some context to race results because that is quite important.
92 -
If they cut to commercial during this race I’m cancelling NBC
22 -
TheMarkT wrote:
S. Canaday wrote:
But my main point of posting on this thread is how ridiculous (and how much of an outlier)that 3:16 marathon CR from Matt is. And yes, my point was that Matt split the Ascent in 2:01 en route during that....so comparing Remi's 2:00 (only all-out on the uphill) just puts that in perspective.
Sage, not sure what your point about Matt's record is. Are you disparaging it or applauding it?
I think you are ignoring the context of the 1993 race. In 1992 Matt was at the summit in 2:05 but was passed by Ricardo Mejia who ran 2:08 up and 1:16 down that day (3:24), totally destroying Carpenter. Matt became obsessed with that not happening again and dedicated much of the next year to being ready for the 1993 race. It was in his backyard. Mejia was a generational talent and they had many battles over the years. It was going to take a dedicated effort to beat him. Matt's 3:16 was the result.
As far as Remi's times which you quote (2019), he went through a tough period in the few years after his first Pikes Peak Marathon victory in 2017. He was young in 2017 and 6 years later is much more experienced, in his prime and injury free.
The weather for the Ascent this year was nearly perfect. Much cooler than the super-hot day we had in 2019 for the Marathon, when the temp and barometric pressure made it feel like 17,000 feet instead of 14,000. I remember you also dedicated a lot of time and effort into preparing for that 2019 race and your 2nd place was a great result.
Who are you and what have been your relative times/experiences at Pikes?
I'm all for talking about the details of context, stats and the science. Certainly weather is a huge factor with times in these races (although note for the Ascent only the heat is generally not as much of an issue with an early morning start and running up to a finish on a 14,000' mountain). There was certainly snow on the trail up high this year which I'm not sure what kind of a difference that makes as I wasn't there in person this year. Nobody besides Remi seemed to be running exceptionally fast times relative to their PRs or other performances. Keep in mind the guy who got 2nd place (Patrick Kipngeno) is a 1:02 half marathoner and was 2nd at last year's Sierre-Zinal in 2:29 though.
The big consideration (besides wind, temp and trail conditions) is the air pressure. What was the relative air pressure on the summit yesterday when Remi ran 2:00? If it's a high pressure system 14,000' may feel more like 12,000' and likewise when relative pressure is low then 14,000' may feel more like 17,000' (like as you mentioned in 2019 when Kilian and I and Remi all were in the marathon and coming down into Manitou it was quite hot!). For the record Seth also won the marathon on relatively hot days in Manitou. But again, the heat of the late morning mainly influences the Marathon...not the Ascent.
But back to Carpenter. His next best time winning the marathon (in all his wins there!) was only 3:33.
So that one special year in 1993 he ran 3:16 (with the Ascent split being his all out PR on the climb only in 2:01 and *followed that* with the fastest downhill split he ever recorded in all his years racing Pikes by 9-min +?!)?! It just doesn't add up. It's not like this guy was even a sub 2:18 marathoner. Joe Gray and I have run over 1-min faster than him in other iconic hill climbs like Mt. WA. Furthermore in 1993, a few weeks before his record run at Pikes Matt only ran like 2:40 at Sierre-Zinal. As a rough reference Kilian set the CR at Sierre-Zinal in 2:25 before his 2019 race at Pikes which was only 3:27. And we're talking about the GOAT mountain-runner who is used to altitude.
Most of the time Matt was winning Pikes in around 3:40 +. The air pressure was not special in 1993 either.
Whether you like it or not, the 3:16 Marathon Record at Pikes is one of the biggest outliers (if not the biggest outlier) in the history of MUT Running (including ultra mountain race and VK distances!)....especially relative to all of Matt's other times and performances on that mountain.
169 -
Sage , this is immense insight - and very appreciated ! (And your followup comments on Seth)
As a side Massive kudos to your handling TDS - the conditions - the course - and getting a big race done so nicely - with everything you have endured leading up to that start line
114 -
Ackley wrote:
Oooooopppplsssss wrote:
Shoulda saved yesterdays ascent for today and won.
Possibly.
Before his (seemingly permanent) sabbatical from Youtube, I believe he mentioned that he was considering an OTQ-attempt at CIM. I wonder if he still is.
This weekend's double and the fact that he competed with Aziz (a 2:15 marathoner) today for 21 miles shows he has largely regained peak fitness.
Seth has always shown exceptional ability at PP. But he has a very spotty record of translating that into decent performances literally anywhere else. He could run 2:20 at CIM or he could just as easily go 3+ and blame a tainted slice of toast.
52 -
S. Canaday wrote:
TheMarkT wrote:
Sage, not sure what your point about Matt's record is. Are you disparaging it or applauding it?
I think you are ignoring the context of the 1993 race. In 1992 Matt was at the summit in 2:05 but was passed by Ricardo Mejia who ran 2:08 up and 1:16 down that day (3:24), totally destroying Carpenter. Matt became obsessed with that not happening again and dedicated much of the next year to being ready for the 1993 race. It was in his backyard. Mejia was a generational talent and they had many battles over the years. It was going to take a dedicated effort to beat him. Matt's 3:16 was the result.
As far as Remi's times which you quote (2019), he went through a tough period in the few years after his first Pikes Peak Marathon victory in 2017. He was young in 2017 and 6 years later is much more experienced, in his prime and injury free.
The weather for the Ascent this year was nearly perfect. Much cooler than the super-hot day we had in 2019 for the Marathon, when the temp and barometric pressure made it feel like 17,000 feet instead of 14,000. I remember you also dedicated a lot of time and effort into preparing for that 2019 race and your 2nd place was a great result.
Who are you and what have been your relative times/experiences at Pikes?
I'm all for talking about the details of context, stats and the science. Certainly weather is a huge factor with times in these races (although note for the Ascent only the heat is generally not as much of an issue with an early morning start and running up to a finish on a 14,000' mountain). There was certainly snow on the trail up high this year which I'm not sure what kind of a difference that makes as I wasn't there in person this year. Nobody besides Remi seemed to be running exceptionally fast times relative to their PRs or other performances. Keep in mind the guy who got 2nd place (Patrick Kipngeno) is a 1:02 half marathoner and was 2nd at last year's Sierre-Zinal in 2:29 though.
The big consideration (besides wind, temp and trail conditions) is the air pressure. What was the relative air pressure on the summit yesterday when Remi ran 2:00? If it's a high pressure system 14,000' may feel more like 12,000' and likewise when relative pressure is low then 14,000' may feel more like 17,000' (like as you mentioned in 2019 when Kilian and I and Remi all were in the marathon and coming down into Manitou it was quite hot!). For the record Seth also won the marathon on relatively hot days in Manitou. But again, the heat of the late morning mainly influences the Marathon...not the Ascent.
But back to Carpenter. His next best time winning the marathon (in all his wins there!) was only 3:33.
So that one special year in 1993 he ran 3:16 (with the Ascent split being his all out PR on the climb only in 2:01 and *followed that* with the fastest downhill split he ever recorded in all his years racing Pikes by 9-min +?!)?! It just doesn't add up. It's not like this guy was even a sub 2:18 marathoner. Joe Gray and I have run over 1-min faster than him in other iconic hill climbs like Mt. WA. Furthermore in 1993, a few weeks before his record run at Pikes Matt only ran like 2:40 at Sierre-Zinal. As a rough reference Kilian set the CR at Sierre-Zinal in 2:25 before his 2019 race at Pikes which was only 3:27. And we're talking about the GOAT mountain-runner who is used to altitude.
Most of the time Matt was winning Pikes in around 3:40 +. The air pressure was not special in 1993 either.
Whether you like it or not, the 3:16 Marathon Record at Pikes is one of the biggest outliers (if not the biggest outlier) in the history of MUT Running (including ultra mountain race and VK distances!)....especially relative to all of Matt's other times and performances on that mountain.
Sage why not confront Carpenter directly? He's not exactly hard to track down. Then you can look him in the face and ask him if it was PEDs, course cutting, rigging the clock, or whatever you think it was that produced his (former) record. Everyone knows it's an outlier but you've clearly been insinuating that it wasn't a genuine result for years now. Man up and confront him or shut up. Overanalyzing and underperforming as always.
1612 -
I'm not a fan of Sage, but he dares to sees the white elephant in the room. Matt's one time only extraordinaire 3:16 vs other his many much more moderate results speak volumes. It's suspicious if you use common sense.
Regarding Killian vs Remy. You can't judge KJ entire super long carrier vs Remy's good day on the Pikes.
86 -
S. Canaday wrote:
TheMarkT wrote:
Sage, not sure what your point about Matt's record is. Are you disparaging it or applauding it?
I think you are ignoring the context of the 1993 race. In 1992 Matt was at the summit in 2:05 but was passed by Ricardo Mejia who ran 2:08 up and 1:16 down that day (3:24), totally destroying Carpenter. Matt became obsessed with that not happening again and dedicated much of the next year to being ready for the 1993 race. It was in his backyard. Mejia was a generational talent and they had many battles over the years. It was going to take a dedicated effort to beat him. Matt's 3:16 was the result.
As far as Remi's times which you quote (2019), he went through a tough period in the few years after his first Pikes Peak Marathon victory in 2017. He was young in 2017 and 6 years later is much more experienced, in his prime and injury free.
The weather for the Ascent this year was nearly perfect. Much cooler than the super-hot day we had in 2019 for the Marathon, when the temp and barometric pressure made it feel like 17,000 feet instead of 14,000. I remember you also dedicated a lot of time and effort into preparing for that 2019 race and your 2nd place was a great result.
Who are you and what have been your relative times/experiences at Pikes?
I'm all for talking about the details of context, stats and the science. Certainly weather is a huge factor with times in these races (although note for the Ascent only the heat is generally not as much of an issue with an early morning start and running up to a finish on a 14,000' mountain). There was certainly snow on the trail up high this year which I'm not sure what kind of a difference that makes as I wasn't there in person this year. Nobody besides Remi seemed to be running exceptionally fast times relative to their PRs or other performances. Keep in mind the guy who got 2nd place (Patrick Kipngeno) is a 1:02 half marathoner and was 2nd at last year's Sierre-Zinal in 2:29 though.
The big consideration (besides wind, temp and trail conditions) is the air pressure. What was the relative air pressure on the summit yesterday when Remi ran 2:00? If it's a high pressure system 14,000' may feel more like 12,000' and likewise when relative pressure is low then 14,000' may feel more like 17,000' (like as you mentioned in 2019 when Kilian and I and Remi all were in the marathon and coming down into Manitou it was quite hot!). For the record Seth also won the marathon on relatively hot days in Manitou. But again, the heat of the late morning mainly influences the Marathon...not the Ascent.
But back to Carpenter. His next best time winning the marathon (in all his wins there!) was only 3:33.
So that one special year in 1993 he ran 3:16 (with the Ascent split being his all out PR on the climb only in 2:01 and *followed that* with the fastest downhill split he ever recorded in all his years racing Pikes by 9-min +?!)?! It just doesn't add up. It's not like this guy was even a sub 2:18 marathoner. Joe Gray and I have run over 1-min faster than him in other iconic hill climbs like Mt. WA. Furthermore in 1993, a few weeks before his record run at Pikes Matt only ran like 2:40 at Sierre-Zinal. As a rough reference Kilian set the CR at Sierre-Zinal in 2:25 before his 2019 race at Pikes which was only 3:27. And we're talking about the GOAT mountain-runner who is used to altitude.
Most of the time Matt was winning Pikes in around 3:40 +. The air pressure was not special in 1993 either.
Whether you like it or not, the 3:16 Marathon Record at Pikes is one of the biggest outliers (if not the biggest outlier) in the history of MUT Running (including ultra mountain race and VK distances!)....especially relative to all of Matt's other times and performances on that mountain.
Thanks for the post Sage. I had never heard of the whole air pressure thing at PP.
62 -
I think Carpenter's 1993 time is shady as hell. Am I also not allowed to post that here? Do I have to call him out in person? How many threads are on here every day questioning PED use by athletes? Do you regulate them all?
You post anonymously telling others what they are allowed to post? I'm guessing you are far too stupid to see the problem with you telling Sage to man up and confront Carpenter directly? Take your own advice first, go ahead and confront Sage as yourself with how you think he should behave. Don't do it here, he's easy to find.
106 -
I’m sorry but some of the successful runners at Pikes Peak look extremely unhealthy, almost sickly. Nothing is worth looking as unhealthy as getting down to 120 to 115 lbs as a male. At least Kilian, Dakota and Sage didn’t look like they were starving.
143
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