So only the mechanical or technological is efficient in your books. Obviously then, motor racing is a more "efficient" sport (notwithstanding the enormous consumption of fuel) than marathon running - by your stupidly selective argument.
Doping in horse racing is nowhere near as prevalent as in athletics, as the lack of improvement in horse-racing times over the last half century has shown. But of course to a doping-denier such as yourself that is merely evidence that doping doesn't work. So now horse-trainers are also morons in believing horses will gain an advantage from doping.
Your blather about what the shoes do is only that - blather. It is no more credibly based that if I were to say "the unique properties in the latest running shoes impart unprecedented upward thrust in the athlete's drive from the ground with each stride" - which I just made up - just like you did. There is nothing that proves shoes enhance performance to the degree you and others claim they do. The biggest improvements come from doping - as they have done for decades.
I didn't say "only mechanical or technological is efficient in your books" -- you also just made that up. I clearly said "self-propelled locomotion".
The shoes have a measurable, and measured, improvement on efficiency. I didn't make that up, but several scientists have studied them in recent years, and athletes themselves are saying the same thing, and even the silent ones are breaking new personal performance boundaries. So -- the whole world is wrong - except for you? Not likely.
You say doping in horse racing is not as prevalent, but lack both prevalence figures for humans and horses. Without data -- you are also just making it up. How often are the horses tested? Are there OOC testing for horses? I've heard that horse dopers are always a few strides ahead of anti-doping testers. A recent headline from June 2023 reads "Up to 60% of racehorses are doped, trainer warns during troubling death spree: 'Lots of illegal drugs'". The latest concern is the alarming increasing rate of race horse deaths.
How can you say race horsing has stagnated? Do you have historical performance data? Guinness Book says the fastest horse ever is from 2008, called "Winning Brew". Right -- that's a name you can trust is clean. The 2021 Kentucky Derby winner, "Medina Spirit", was ... wait for it ... disqualified for doping. I guess too much Funky Comedina Spirit. Lots of North American records were set in 2022 and 2023, and a bunch more in the 2000's.
It's not surprising that you seem to lack complete awareness of the sport of horse racing, with respect to both doping and performance.
But assuming you were right about horse performance, with a different hypothesis, "the lack of improvement in horse-racing times over the last half century" shows that doping has not really evolved in half a century. This appears to be an obvious conclusion for non-Africans in the last 3-4 decades in (human) distance running events.
Your blather about what doping does is only that - blather. It is no more credibly based than if you were to say "the unique properties in the latest running shoes impart unprecedented upward thrust in the athlete's drive from the ground with each stride" - which you just made up - just like you do about doping. There is nothing that proves doping enhances elite distance running performance to the degree you and others claim they do.
Horse-racing records have scarcely moved in decades, as Secretariat's records in '73 have shown. You are an ass. Unlike Secretariat.
All sports dope - sprinters, cyclists and marathon runners - and all for the same reasons. Marathon running is not some lonely exception, impervious to the effects of peds - as busted marathon champions have shown.
If you have examples of "busted marathon champions", why do you so freequently appeal to Ben Johnson (1988), Marion Jones (until 2002), and Flo Jo (1988 -- assuming she took any drugs) and cycling (1990s-2000s) when answering whether drugs actually make a person faster?
Your examples are not only of athletes from the wrong sports/events, they are all quite dated, and come from an era before marathon times started dropping.
The only example I recall, of a "busted marathon champion" was for whereabouts failures -- a violation that doesn't involve drugs, nor performance.
The only exception here is your ability to provide relevant examples. You cannot even meet the low requirements of rejecting your argument as "proofs by example".
So you are wilfully oblivious to the stream of doping offences that have come out of Kenya in recent years, that all involved distance runners (including of course marathon and half marathon exponents), that was admitted even by Kenya Athletics to put the country's sport at a critical level, at which they feared an international ban. But none of those drugs were helping them, were they? You are a practised idiot.
This post was edited 31 seconds after it was posted.
Only you could be confused about the meaning of "uninformed" or "ignorant", which he applied to your views on doping.
I'm clear on the meanings. He just failed to substantiate his opinions, rendering them baseless, and useless. Once again, without substantial facts or data or evidence, we cannot leave the realm of mythology.
So you are wilfully oblivious to the stream of doping offences that have come out of Kenya in recent years, that all involved distance runners (including of course marathon and half marathon exponents), that was admitted even by Kenya Athletics to put the country's sport at a critical level, at which they feared an international ban. But none of those drugs were helping them, were they? You are a practised idiot.
Takes one to know one?
Which brings me back to the same unanswered question -- if you had such a large pool to draw from, why do you talk so much about Ben Johnson, Marion Jones, FloJo, and cycling and baseball -- athletes from non related events with little to nothing in common?
If you were smarter, you could have at least responded with the names of Jeptoo and Sumgong or Shobukhova -- as I sometimes neglect the women in threads about the men's marathon. But you are not.
Nothing about the stream of doping offences shows that doping made any of them faster. To show that their results were faster require measuring running times, not urine or blood contents. But I will not argue against steroids making women perform better in events requiring muscular strength.
If you have examples of "busted marathon champions", why do you so freequently appeal to Ben Johnson (1988), Marion Jones (until 2002), and Flo Jo (1988 -- assuming she took any drugs) and cycling (1990s-2000s) when answering whether drugs actually make a person faster?
Your examples are not only of athletes from the wrong sports/events, they are all quite dated, and come from an era before marathon times started dropping.
The only example I recall, of a "busted marathon champion" was for whereabouts failures -- a violation that doesn't involve drugs, nor performance.
The only exception here is your ability to provide relevant examples. You cannot even meet the low requirements of rejecting your argument as "proofs by example".
So you are wilfully oblivious to the stream of doping offences that have come out of Kenya in recent years, that all involved distance runners (including of course marathon and half marathon exponents), that was admitted even by Kenya Athletics to put the country's sport at a critical level, at which they feared an international ban. But none of those drugs were helping them, were they? You are a practised idiot.
Do you think Kipchoge is doping too ? I'm genuinely interested in your opinion on the matter.
Only you could be confused about the meaning of "uninformed" or "ignorant", which he applied to your views on doping.
I'm clear on the meanings. He just failed to substantiate his opinions, rendering them baseless, and useless. Once again, without substantial facts or data or evidence, we cannot leave the realm of mythology.
He didn't need to prove his opinions about you. You have done that, with post after post for years.
So you are wilfully oblivious to the stream of doping offences that have come out of Kenya in recent years, that all involved distance runners (including of course marathon and half marathon exponents), that was admitted even by Kenya Athletics to put the country's sport at a critical level, at which they feared an international ban. But none of those drugs were helping them, were they? You are a practised idiot.
Takes one to know one?
Which brings me back to the same unanswered question -- if you had such a large pool to draw from, why do you talk so much about Ben Johnson, Marion Jones, FloJo, and cycling and baseball -- athletes from non related events with little to nothing in common?
If you were smarter, you could have at least responded with the names of Jeptoo and Sumgong or Shobukhova -- as I sometimes neglect the women in threads about the men's marathon. But you are not.
Nothing about the stream of doping offences shows that doping made any of them faster. To show that their results were faster require measuring running times, not urine or blood contents. But I will not argue against steroids making women perform better in events requiring muscular strength.
So athletes - or women at least - aren't dumb when it comes to using steroids but they become so when they blood-dope or use EPO? I think you've just shown who is the dumb one here.
I'm clear on the meanings. He just failed to substantiate his opinions, rendering them baseless, and useless. Once again, without substantial facts or data or evidence, we cannot leave the realm of mythology.
He didn't need to prove his opinions about you. You have done that, with post after post for years.
My post after post for years only disproves his baseless statement.
He doesn't need to prove anything, but not doing so renders them baseless and useless. Without instantiation or substance or specificity, I simply multiply his baseless opinion by ZERO and then file it under baseless faith/myth/religion.
Judging from his own public posts, he admittedly doesn't have any particularly special knowledge or information about doping and elite performance. This is the likely the main reason why he provided no information or knowledge. Like you, he cannot. Like so many others, he believes EPO is a very powerful endurance drug, yet can only guess, again with no real basis, what it can do for elite runners, beyond their natural ceiling.
But you cannot prove anything by popular belief -- at its very foundation you need facts and evidence and controlled observations that provide information and form knowledge.
So athletes - or women at least - aren't dumb when it comes to using steroids but they become so when they blood-dope or use EPO? I think you've just shown who is the dumb one here.
So athletes - or women at least - aren't dumb when it comes to using steroids but they become so when they blood-dope or use EPO? I think you've just shown who is the dumb one here.
Don't be too hard on yourself.
So you still can't follow an argument. Even when it's yours.
He didn't need to prove his opinions about you. You have done that, with post after post for years.
My post after post for years only disproves his baseless statement.
He doesn't need to prove anything, but not doing so renders them baseless and useless. Without instantiation or substance or specificity, I simply multiply his baseless opinion by ZERO and then file it under baseless faith/myth/religion.
Judging from his own public posts, he admittedly doesn't have any particularly special knowledge or information about doping and elite performance. This is the likely the main reason why he provided no information or knowledge. Like you, he cannot. Like so many others, he believes EPO is a very powerful endurance drug, yet can only guess, again with no real basis, what it can do for elite runners, beyond their natural ceiling.
But you cannot prove anything by popular belief -- at its very foundation you need facts and evidence and controlled observations that provide information and form knowledge.
So many paragraphs attempting to argue he is wrong about you. He isn't. You have proved how clueless you are about doping - again and again. He really hit home.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
The only example I recall, of a "busted marathon champion" was for whereabouts failures -- a violation that doesn't involve drugs, nor performance.
Ignorant or poor memory?
Too quick reading/responding.
For some reason, I was actually thinking of men's marathon record holders, so that was my mistake. I did already offer a self-correction later, adding some women's names.
I never did get a response to the question why keep using the examples of sprinters Johnson, Jones, and Johnson, when there is this large pool of Kenyans, including all these "busted marathon champions".
