This is the tragedy. How much does Bishop's career change if she gets to call herself Olympic Champion? Even a bronze medal would have been career-defining for Lynsey Sharp - it could have been the difference between being a funded athlete and not staying in the sport. You can't get that back. Even if you give those women the medals they deserve, they've lost 7 years of their subsequent career and earning potential that comes with being Olympic medallists. What's worse is that this ban has come with no new evidence - what we know now about the advantages of DSD athletes, we knew back in 2016 and WA sat on their hands.
I agree that the WA dropped the ball but referring to this as a tragedy...I just...
Look. I am all for the ruling. I am grateful for the ruling. It was the right thing to do.
But let's not deny that the ruling comes with real and I would say tragic consequences for a lot of trans/DSD athletes. There's a difference between not making a podium, and not being allowed to compete anywhere at all.
Why are some of you saying they can't compete? Thats false!
Of course they can compete. They can compete against men.
I'm specifically talking about biological male athletes like Thomas who bully female athletes and then act like we are all supposed to celebrate this type of farce.
It limits the problem but does not solve it completely.
Semenya and the others haven't really tried to follow the new rules, they just changed their events.
We don't know how much this new rule will successfully reduce their ability to outcompete full women.
You clearly haven't been paying close attention.
Semenya and friends DID reduce their testosterone for several years and they weren't competitive against biological females. So we DO know how a restriction on testosterone will effect DSD runners.
lol at attaching trans people with theft and thinking that was a winning point. Are trans people known as thieves on top of being deranged about their gender? I guess the Biden cabinet screwball who was stealing luggage out of the airport isn't rare for transgenders huh. Criminals.
Still can't help using words like "lifesaving" to describe trans participation. Always with the "gimme or I'll die and it'll be your fault" rhetorical strategy. I'm not even against certain arrangements for trans kids to participate in some sports at the youth/HS level, I just don't care for bad rhetoric (as I've hopefully shown earlier today in this thread).
So what you think of the rhetoric from the other side? Women's sports will no longer exist unless we stop this one trans student from playing JV soccer games? Or that no girl would ever have a chance to win a medal or scholarship unless we ban all trans athletes from K-12 sports?
I'm specifically talking about biological male athletes like Thomas who bully female athletes and then act like we are all supposed to celebrate this type of farce.
How about acknowledging there are far more trans athletes just looking to compete where they feel they fit in and not make any waves. They are the bullied, not the bullies most of the time. All of these ridiculous state laws in practice ban some 9th grader trying to play JV field hockey or softball. It’s sh-T like that that gives the athletics fairness argument a black eye. Maybe you are one of the absolutists too, I’m not sure. We can certainly ban a future trans Jakob from beating a future Kipyegon by 20 seconds in the Olympic 1500 without having to insist that Becky Pepper Jackson can’t run back of the pack races in some obscure West Virginia middle school track meet. Please don’t tell me that this 5th heat middle school race is just as important to the girl who might have won as the Olympic final is to Hassan.
I would propose that in any events where PED testing is an important part of enforcing biological fairness would be events also subject to a total ban on males competing in the female category.
This post was edited 14 minutes after it was posted.
I'm specifically talking about biological male athletes like Thomas who bully female athletes and then act like we are all supposed to celebrate this type of farce.
How about acknowledging there are far more trans athletes just looking to compete where they feel they fit in and not make any waves. They are the bullied, not the bullies most of the time. All of these ridiculous state laws in practice ban some 9th grader trying to play JV field hockey or softball. It’s sh-T like that that gives the athletics fairness argument a black eye. Maybe you are one of the absolutists too, I’m not sure. We can certainly ban a future trans Jakob from beating a future Kipyegon by 20 seconds in the Olympic 1500 without having to insist that Becky Pepper Jackson can’t run back of the pack races in some obscure West Virginia middle school track meet.
And yes, Thomas should be banned. NCAA D1 sports should prioritize biological fairness. I agree.
lol at attaching trans people with theft and thinking that was a winning point. Are trans people known as thieves on top of being deranged about their gender? I guess the Biden cabinet screwball who was stealing luggage out of the airport isn't rare for transgenders huh. Criminals.
What the f are you babbling about? You too must have had a trans person scam you out of your paycheck. Only explanation for your hateful rhetoric. I’m sorry you’ve suffered so much at the hands of the trans bullies. I hope this WA ruling begins the healing process for you.
What the f are you babbling about? You too must have had a trans person scam you out of your paycheck. Only explanation for your hateful rhetoric. I’m sorry you’ve suffered so much at the hands of the trans bullies. I hope this WA ruling begins the healing process for you.
Haha this is great
Transgenders pilfering lunches and committing check fraud TOO!!! . You wouldn't put it past them huh.
lol. Keep beating yourself. You're bolstering the point that so called trans persons are a menace
Sounds like grounds to putting them on house arrest by fed order
This ruling needed to happen and I'm grateful it did. But when I think of the word "tragedy" here disregards other human beings in the field.
And I think not considering it as such also ignores what was probably a personal and painful tragedy for Bishop, Sharp and the other female athletes in the event. Some of whom as other mentioned didn't even get to make the finals. They are human beings too. And were frankly disregarded and silenced. Sharp took a lot of heat and got death threats for speaking out.
The blame however lies with WA, the IOC and other organizations that sat on their hands and made bad policy.
I'd rather live Melissa Bishop's life over the last 15 years than Caster Semenya's.
Semenya had private medical information released to global media without her consent when she was 18. There have been newspaper articles written about her genitalia, hormones, genetics, body shape and ability to reproduce. There are threads of here mocking her and calling her a cheat and a liar. World Athletics introduced event restrictions specifically to target her preferred events.
Is the personal trauma of missing an Olympic medal comparable to that?
What the f are you babbling about? You too must have had a trans person scam you out of your paycheck. Only explanation for your hateful rhetoric. I’m sorry you’ve suffered so much at the hands of the trans bullies. I hope this WA ruling begins the healing process for you.
Haha this is great
Transgenders pilfering lunches and committing check fraud TOO!!! . You wouldn't put it past them huh.
lol. Keep beating yourself. You're bolstering the point that so called trans persons are a menace
Sounds like grounds to putting them on house arrest by fed order
Cool.
You are too dumb to recognize irony. I hope you are super fast, like Jakob fast, because that’s your only hope at making a living when you grow up.
You are too dumb to recognize irony. I hope you are super fast, like Jakob fast, because that’s your only hope at making a living when you grow up.
Yea ok I'm dumb. Look at you with your :
"DERRR , what THE maTTER WITH you? You have a PROBlem with TRANS PEopLE COmmitting crimes?!! YouRE so DUM!! hoW can YOU not like crime?!!! OH MY how EMBArrasssing !!! DUHHHH, Who DOesnT LIKE crime these DAys???!!"
You are too dumb to recognize irony. I hope you are super fast, like Jakob fast, because that’s your only hope at making a living when you grow up.
Yea ok I'm dumb. Look at you with your :
"DERRR , what THE maTTER WITH you? You have a PROBlem with TRANS PEopLE COmmitting crimes?!! YouRE so DUM!! hoW can YOU not like crime?!!! OH MY how EMBArrasssing !!! DUHHHH, Who DOesnT LIKE crime these DAys???!!"
I mean, Unwise Old Man, if you were going to just make up some fantasy story about me getting "owned" by a trans person in real life , why wasn't it something like "Did they get a better degree than you?' or "Do they have a nicer home?" or something normal and healthy.
But no, it was "THEY STOLE FROM YOU DIDNT THEY! THEY'RE GOOD AT CRIME! AND YOU'RE JUST JEALOUS !!".
I'm specifically talking about biological male athletes like Thomas who bully female athletes and then act like we are all supposed to celebrate this type of farce.
How about acknowledging there are far more trans athletes just looking to compete where they feel they fit in and not make any waves. They are the bullied, not the bullies most of the time. All of these ridiculous state laws in practice ban some 9th grader trying to play JV field hockey or softball. It’s sh-T like that that gives the athletics fairness argument a black eye. Maybe you are one of the absolutists too, I’m not sure. We can certainly ban a future trans Jakob from beating a future Kipyegon by 20 seconds in the Olympic 1500 without having to insist that Becky Pepper Jackson can’t run back of the pack races in some obscure West Virginia middle school track meet. Please don’t tell me that this 5th heat middle school race is just as important to the girl who might have won as the Olympic final is to Hassan.
I would propose that in any events where PED testing is an important part of enforcing biological fairness would be events also subject to a total ban on males competing in the female category.
Where do you draw the line? 50th place in the turkey trot, yeah nobody cares. What about if they win? 200th place in HS jv XC? Yeah no one cares. What about if the are the 5th scorer in conference Xc? You rapidly run into the case where no one cares as a long as they suck... And team sports get even messier.
You think it should only be like college and after (ped testing). Plenty of others think HS deserve 'fair' competition.
Personally I am not worried about the elite level. The odds of a trans woman being competitive with test <5 appears to be almost non-existent. It might be an issue in Basketball or the like but in athletics we have seen zero evidence that any trans or DSD athlete will be competitive. The only complex part is figuring out what type of documentation do you need to figure out compliance.
In the end when you see a trans athlete do well, you have no clue what their current hormone situation is. They gap between the guy in a dress and a person who is suppressing test and mailing estrogen is pretty huge...
Biological men have absolutely no business in women's sports. The end. Sorry but the world does not revolve around trans athletes and their supposed feelings and egos. And frankly they act like a bunch of bullying jerks anyway.
You are the “bullying jerk” and you have been bullying trans people for far too long.
How about acknowledging the fact that allowing a boy/transgirl to compete in a middle school girls track event SETS PRECEDENT. I'd agree that your example of the middle schooler is pretty harmless in a vacuum but unfortunately, that's not reality.
And I think not considering it as such also ignores what was probably a personal and painful tragedy for Bishop, Sharp and the other female athletes in the event. Some of whom as other mentioned didn't even get to make the finals. They are human beings too. And were frankly disregarded and silenced. Sharp took a lot of heat and got death threats for speaking out.
The blame however lies with WA, the IOC and other organizations that sat on their hands and made bad policy.
I'd rather live Melissa Bishop's life over the last 15 years than Caster Semenya's.
Semenya had private medical information released to global media without her consent when she was 18. There have been newspaper articles written about her genitalia, hormones, genetics, body shape and ability to reproduce. There are threads of here mocking her and calling her a cheat and a liar. World Athletics introduced event restrictions specifically to target her preferred events.
Is the personal trauma of missing an Olympic medal comparable to that?
Caster Semenya is a biological male who has insisted for many years to compete against biological females. Obviously there was going to be a lot of push back and flack towards Semenya.
But Semenya willingly went through that so that Semenya could get famous, win medals, and make money. Fame, medals, and money that was taken away from biological females. That's totally not fair to biological females.