Cruz was as fast as Coe, should be included in the field.
Ngeny should be included in this field along with Jauntorena and Ereng as well.
What did Ngeny do over 800? And I recall Juantorena's best was nearly two seconds slower than Coe's only 5 years earlier. I think that shows why Coe was so great - the extent he annihilated a great record from great runners before him. Neither Kipketer nor Rudisha have done that.
Kipketer was very probably doping and he did very little at the Olympics, so if they were testing for EPO at this match race and the stakes were this high, he would lose. The lack of rounds, however, would help him. Cruz would be a contender as well. But Coe did close faster than anyone in history in the 800m, and he would have run sub-1:42 a lot more frequently had he specialized in the 800m, instead of spreading himself out to 1k, 1500, and mile as much as he did. Coe might have been blood doping--given his bout of a disease rarely bad for anyone other than those sharing blood--or using steroids--given that Loughborough was testing steroids on volunteers at that time, but of course there's no proof of his use. Rudisha paced himself to 1:40.91, albeit on a faster track than Firenze 1981, and ran more fast races than anyone, so I give him the crown. Of course, who's to say he was clean either?
A rare comment in this thread. A view without emotional partiality. Pretty balanced.
Yes, Brits ran slower in the EPO era, and ran faster with the introduction of the ABP. Only 1 Kenyan has run faster than Kipketer that night 25 years ago. No Kenyan has run faster than Komen that night. I do find it odd that many here (all the reasonable people) will not hesitate to say that El G, Komen, Geb, Cacho were all doped out of their minds, but will give Kipketer a pass.
Some of your Brits ran awfully fast in the blood doping and anabolic steroid era. I suppose it was just a coincidence.
Since those that followed them were clearly faster I guess that makes it a certainty they, too, were doping - but on even better stuff.
Kipketer was very probably doping and he did very little at the Olympics, so if they were testing for EPO at this match race and the stakes were this high, he would lose. The lack of rounds, however, would help him. Cruz would be a contender as well. But Coe did close faster than anyone in history in the 800m, and he would have run sub-1:42 a lot more frequently had he specialized in the 800m, instead of spreading himself out to 1k, 1500, and mile as much as he did. Coe might have been blood doping--given his bout of a disease rarely bad for anyone other than those sharing blood--or using steroids--given that Loughborough was testing steroids on volunteers at that time, but of course there's no proof of his use. Rudisha paced himself to 1:40.91, albeit on a faster track than Firenze 1981, and ran more fast races than anyone, so I give him the crown. Of course, who's to say he was clean either?
I guess I don’t understand the point of the doping discussion. This is who wins in a match race, not who you guess is doping - sorry ArmstrongLivs we know where you lie.
Acting like Kipketer “folds” under pressure is strange considering he won 3 straight global titles and got a close 2nd at the Olympics in a subpar season for him. He didn’t get a distant 2nd against a substandard field in the biggest 800m race of his career unlike another in this discussion.
Nor does it matter who closes faster in a slow 800 when the OP has specified it’s a fast pace and Rudisha/Kipketer love a hot pace. So I think we’re just going in circles here with Coe fans who project he’d run great and super fast in the 800 against the best competition when we never quite saw it. I think I’d like to know how he’d even run because from what we’ve seen he likes to hang at the back. So is the idea he is running 1:41-1:42 going by Rudisha and Kipketer in the last 100? Alrighty then, quite a projection when we’ve Rudisha win every which way from the front, and Kipketer has won Worlds from front and behind as well. Coe’s 1986 triumph is the one blueprint and as stated before it was narrow not convincing in a slower race.
Yes, Brits ran slower in the EPO era, and ran faster with the introduction of the ABP. Only 1 Kenyan has run faster than Kipketer that night 25 years ago. No Kenyan has run faster than Komen that night. I do find it odd that many here (all the reasonable people) will not hesitate to say that El G, Komen, Geb, Cacho were all doped out of their minds, but will give Kipketer a pass.
Some of your Brits ran awfully fast in the blood doping and anabolic steroid era. I suppose it was just a coincidence.
So why did they get slower in the 90's and 00's during the EPO era, and why did they get faster again since the ABP? This is similar to what happened in Australia, New Zealand, and most European countries outside of Iberia. Were they all on steroids and blood doping in the 80s too, and for some reason, their 90s'00s generations refused to take EPO when there was no testing, and even was legal for a time?
If Britain was using steroids fairly systematically in the 80's to explain Coe, Cram, Ovett, Elliott, Moorcroft etc, why did our sprinters get much faster in the 90s and 00s? Why didn't we see muscle bound manly British woman sprinters in the 80's competing with the Soviet Bloc freaks?
Why has there been no middle or distance running bust in Britain in the 30 years since, unlike places like Morocco and Kenya as soon as testing for EPO became a thing?
Well, I know you wont give an intelligent answer, because the same question was asked earlier in this thread. So you're likely an AI bot, and will copy and paste the same comment quoted again later in this thread and 100 more times in other threads in the next year or two.
Cruz was as fast as Coe, should be included in the field.
Ngeny should be included in this field along with Jauntorena and Ereng as well.
What did Ngeny do over 800? And I recall Juantorena's best was nearly two seconds slower than Coe's only 5 years earlier. I think that shows why Coe was so great - the extent he annihilated a great record from great runners before him. Neither Kipketer nor Rudisha have done that.
It's Juantoarena. You remember his best but not his name?
What did Ngeny do over 800? And I recall Juantorena's best was nearly two seconds slower than Coe's only 5 years earlier. I think that shows why Coe was so great - the extent he annihilated a great record from great runners before him. Neither Kipketer nor Rudisha have done that.
It's Juantoarena. You remember his best but not his name?
Spelling is the issue for you then, not performance?
1:41.1 was pretty disappointing for the best Kenyan in the full throttle EPO era. Even if you suppose Coe was going for occasional blood transfusions in Italy, it wouldn't be nearly as helpful. Likewise if Rudisha was only microdosing, a big disadvantage to what Kipketer had.
Also, those saying that the 80's was the steroid era, it's called that because the Berlin Wall came down in 1989. Nothing changed as far as American sprinters were concerned.
Well, I know you wont give an intelligent answer, because the same question was asked earlier in this thread. So you're likely an AI bot, and will copy and paste the same comment quoted again later in this thread and 100 more times in other threads in the next year or two.
Priceless!
This is funny coming from you. You have written (probably copy/paste) the same crap about the same subjects for 5 or 6 years now. So you're likely an AI bot.
1:41.1 was pretty disappointing for the best Kenyan in the full throttle EPO era. Even if you suppose Coe was going for occasional blood transfusions in Italy, it wouldn't be nearly as helpful.
You couldn't find a bigger fan of Sebastian Coe than me. He was my hero when I competed. I followed Peter's methods in coaching. But I grew up. Maybe Seb doped. Maybe not. I don't know. You don't know. Try growing up too. Stop accusing everyone else of doping and thinking that your/our heroes were incapable of doing the same, like they were some moral compass, some incorruptible, pure human being.
1:41.1 was pretty disappointing for the best Kenyan in the full throttle EPO era. Even if you suppose Coe was going for occasional blood transfusions in Italy, it wouldn't be nearly as helpful.
You couldn't find a bigger fan of Sebastian Coe than me. He was my hero when I competed. I followed Peter's methods in coaching. But I grew up. Maybe Seb doped. Maybe not. I don't know. You don't know. Try growing up too. Stop accusing everyone else of doping and thinking that your/our heroes were incapable of doing the same, like they were some moral compass, some incorruptible, pure human being.
Stop with the doping apologist sophistry. A guy running crazy times at the peak of the EPO era, from a corrupt country that has had 150+ doping busts since his day, is far more likely to have been doping than a guy running a crazy time from a first world country with no middle or long distance busts since his day, and with the most strident anti-doping culture in the world
Stop with the doping apologist sophistry. A guy running crazy times at the peak of the EPO era, from a corrupt country that has had 150+ doping busts since his day, is far more likely to have been doping than a guy running a crazy time from a first world country with no middle or long distance busts since his day, and with the most strident anti-doping culture in the world
Is Denmark 1st world or 3rd world?
The reason we should all know that EPO and the EPO-era is unimportant for 800m, is that Coe, from 1981, is still #3 all time.
1:41.1 was pretty disappointing for the best Kenyan in the full throttle EPO era. Even if you suppose Coe was going for occasional blood transfusions in Italy, it wouldn't be nearly as helpful.
You couldn't find a bigger fan of Sebastian Coe than me. He was my hero when I competed. I followed Peter's methods in coaching. But I grew up. Maybe Seb doped. Maybe not. I don't know. You don't know. Try growing up too. Stop accusing everyone else of doping and thinking that your/our heroes were incapable of doing the same, like they were some moral compass, some incorruptible, pure human being.
Stop with the doping apologist sophistry. A guy running crazy times at the peak of the EPO era, from a corrupt country that has had 150+ doping busts since his day, is far more likely to have been doping than a guy running a crazy time from a first world country with no middle or long distance busts since his day, and with the most strident anti-doping culture in the world
Is Denmark 1st world or 3rd world?
The reason we should all know that EPO and the EPO-era is unimportant for 800m, is that Coe, from 1981, is still #3 all time.
No, it's a combination of EPO being less effective for 800 and that the EPO era talent was much inferior to the likes of Coe and Cruz. Coe should have ran 3:27 in the 1500m, in which case very few would be ahead of him still. That wouldn't say anything about the effectiveness of EPO for 1500m. Cram still has one of the top mile times, does that mean EPO is more effective for 1500 than the mile?
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