After giving this a few minutes of thought.... I say we just ride this thing out to it's logical conclusion and see how ridiculous it gets.
Now that Covid-19 is done, we can focus on the real issues of global warming and gender dysphoria.
Meanwhile, China and Russia are laughing their azzes off while we're arguing and wasting our time over stupid crap.
facts and reason wrote:
How does transgenderism become racism?
Do Democrats really believe this?
I'm trying to get my head around this.
In the Connecticut case, the trans-girls are black, the cis-girls are white, so the idea is that if they were all white or all black no one would care, but racists get all angry because it's cute white girls losing out on the medals. That's the idea; I would say there's some truth there, but it's not the whole truth.
Lenny Leonard wrote:
People who are opposed to transgender athletes competing either:
1. Don’t think transgenderism is even real, or that it is “impossible” for a boy to become a girl.
Or
2. They accept transgender people and their ability to live in their chosen gender, except in sports where they would have them either compete in their assigned gender or not at all.
If you fall in either of one of those camps, show me how you would word your explanation that to a transgender 16-year-old who wants to run the 200m for her track team.
I fall in camp 2. I would say, "sorry, but you have an unfair advantage because you already went through male puberty, so you don't get to compete against girls in high school sports."
Also, I looked at the 2019 state championship results for my state the other day, and in the mile run, throughout all 5 divisions, there was one girl who would not have finished last on the boy's side, and she would have been like 17th out of 19 or something like that. It's not like it's close or anything.
Lenny Leonard wrote:
This is old news. And don’t pretend that this isn’t racially motivated. This would not be an issue in states that aren’t predominantly white.
Trans girls are girls. They run against girls. Stop bending everything to your transphobic narrative.
Serious question. What is your definition of "girl"?
fethullah gulen rupp wrote:
i do agree that the amount of play this issue gets is incredibly disproportionate to the impact it has. it has unfortunately become a high profile wedge issue with stupid arguments being made by both the "left" and right wing factions.
The difference is that the people on the "left" making stupid arguments have no real power, while the ones on the right control many state legislatures. So while we can ignore the likes of Veronica Ivey as nutjobs making noise for attention, we cannot do the same about the right-wing cultural warriors in the state house.
It is also true that the "impact" is blown out of proportion. Not being able to compete on your high school varsity team is not the end of the world. None other than National Federation of State High School Associations says competing in high school sports is a privilege and not a right. So you might think trans students should find other opportunities to compete in sports. That itself is a fair argument. But when the proposal to exclude them from high school sports come at the same time (and from the same people) as other proposals about bathroom use, puberty blocker / HRT ban and all other kinds of measures to target trans students, it's hard for them to isolate sports participation as a standalone issue. For them, it feels like a part of the big scheme to insult, humiliate and marginalize them as human beings.
If anyone is genuinely concerned about the competitive fairness of women's sports, they should start with ending their childish name calling, and treating trans students as equal human beings. Then we can discuss some reasonable solutions.
Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:
astro wrote:
Biological males have no business competing in women's sports, period. It is not a close question. And the navel-gazing, selfishness and narcissism of those who claim otherwise is laughable. Who cares how a person identifies? Why are they deemed more important than the women they are cheating and their feelings and rights? It is absurd.
Rebekah's teammates disagree with you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf9MfYZ-Bl4&t=1s
Rebekah is 14 and skinny. If she does not take hormone blockers, she will get much bigger and stronger in the next 2 years. Maybe her teammates will be ok with that, but the girls she plays against will not be.
Lenny Leonard wrote:
Trans girls are girls. They run against girls. Stop bending everything to your transphobic narrative.
Well they probably bend it to the side now but the end goal is to actually cut it off.
OFOOS wrote:
facts and reason wrote:
How does transgenderism become racism?
Do Democrats really believe this?
I'm trying to get my head around this.
In the Connecticut case, the trans-girls are black, the cis-girls are white, so the idea is that if they were all white or all black no one would care, but racists get all angry because it's cute white girls losing out on the medals. That's the idea; I would say there's some truth there, but it's not the whole truth.
Exactly my point, thank you.
It’s not the big issue being discussed, but it is one of the reasons it was elevated to this point.
OFOOS wrote:
Lenny Leonard wrote:
This is old news. And don’t pretend that this isn’t racially motivated. This would not be an issue in states that aren’t predominantly white.
Trans girls are girls. They run against girls. Stop bending everything to your transphobic narrative.
Serious question. What is your definition of "girl"?
Well, for starters if a person says to me, “I am a girl” and is being sincere, then that person is a girl.
For anyone over 16, if she has a drivers license that says she is a girl, that’s a good indicator as well.
Lenny Leonard wrote:
OFOOS wrote:
Serious question. What is your definition of "girl"?
Well, for starters if a person says to me, “I am a girl” and is being sincere, then that person is a girl.
For anyone over 16, if she has a drivers license that says she is a girl, that’s a good indicator as well.
Neither of those provides a definition of "girl", which is what was asked for. Indeed, neither one even makes an attempt to do so.
Care to make an honest attempt?
Lenny Leonard wrote:
OFOOS wrote:
Serious question. What is your definition of "girl"?
Well, for starters if a person says to me, “I am a girl” and is being sincere, then that person is a girl.
For anyone over 16, if she has a drivers license that says she is a girl, that’s a good indicator as well.
Go by what the Doctor said WHEN He/She delivered the Baby. They can usually tell in 2-3 Seconds, or even sooner by looking at the Sonogram.
Real Obvi wrote:
Lenny Leonard wrote:
Well, for starters if a person says to me, “I am a girl” and is being sincere, then that person is a girl.
For anyone over 16, if she has a drivers license that says she is a girl, that’s a good indicator as well.
Neither of those provides a definition of "girl", which is what was asked for. Indeed, neither one even makes an attempt to do so.
Care to make an honest attempt?
Girl: a young, female human.
Your first definition implies that being a girl is all in your head, in which case, why would male and female sports be necessary? Your second definition uses the word "female", which, in the case of humans, refers to individuals with XX chromosomes and ovaries. Trans girls are not female. Even the existence of the term "trans girls" is an admission that they are not the same as cis girls.
Lenny Leonard wrote:
Real Obvi wrote:
Neither of those provides a definition of "girl", which is what was asked for. Indeed, neither one even makes an attempt to do so.
Care to make an honest attempt?
Girl: a young, female human.
Girl a Young Female BORN with a Vagina, If you don't know that You are in desperate need of a beginning Biology class.
OFOOS wrote:
Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:
Rebekah's teammates disagree with you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf9MfYZ-Bl4&t=1sRebekah is 14 and skinny. If she does not take hormone blockers, she will get much bigger and stronger in the next 2 years. Maybe her teammates will be ok with that, but the girls she plays against will not be.
It's pretty obvious she has already been on puberty blocker. She will also start her HRT soon. She has full support from her parents, and NJ state house is not controlled by right wing cultural warriors, so no one is going to stop her.
Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:
It's pretty obvious she has already been on puberty blocker. She will also start her HRT soon. She has full support from her parents, and NJ state house is not controlled by right wing cultural warriors, so no one is going to stop her.
Well, then that's fine. Big difference between someone like her and someone who transitions after puberty.
OFOOS wrote:
Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:
It's pretty obvious she has already been on puberty blocker. She will also start her HRT soon. She has full support from her parents, and NJ state house is not controlled by right wing cultural warriors, so no one is going to stop her.
Well, then that's fine. Big difference between someone like her and someone who transitions after puberty.
But the puberty you seem to be speaking of is only the puberty of adolescence. In humans there's also the puberty of infancy that occurs from the end of the first month of life outside the womb to or through the sixth month.
Moreover, there are many sex differences between male and female humans such as in lung tissue & secretions and respiratory function that are apparent from birth. Research on human stem cells and from human zygotes conceived in labs through IVF show that sex differences are evident days after fertilization.
A look at the sports records of kids prior to the puberty of adolescence shows that males outperform girls in athletics long before adolescent puberty kicks in.
This doesn't mean girls are inferior to boys. It means that the physical feats that male-dominated cultures decided to focus on and build competitive sports around happen to be the feats that males are particularly good at.
If women ran the world, there would be Olympics in going through labor and pushing big-headed offspring out of very small bodily holes. And in putting on a happy face and competing in sports whilst suffering menstrual cramps, endometriosis and pre-menstrual breast tenderness; having recently had an abortion or miscarriage; worrying about being pregnant coz of what happened the other day/last night; or carrying a wanted pregnancy.