57 COVID deaths in GA today: Post-opening spike starting?

Theros wrote:

fifi wrote:

We've never had a nationwide lockdown. We did not take advantage of the extra time that lockdowns allowed to develop a nationwide test-trace-isolate program. We are a failed country.

Like I said. The lockdowns failed. You can come up with any excuses you want, but it is fact that the lockdowns failed.

Agreed. Full lock downs and stay at home orders are unproven and dangerous and should never have been considered in the first place.

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

Theros wrote:

Like I said. The lockdowns failed. You can come up with any excuses you want, but it is fact that the lockdowns failed.

Agreed. Full lock downs and stay at home orders are unproven and dangerous and should never have been considered in the first place.

The United States NEVER did this. NZ did it, and it worked wonderfully.

Whodunit wrote:

Around 40 million Americans will be evicted from their homes this year due to the lockdowns

I don't know if it will be 40 million. That will depend on congress.

But make no mistake about it. The economy is sucking right now because we came out of lockdown too soon and the Republican White Nationalist Party refuses to pay for a lockdown that would solve the problem.

So the evictions will go forward as long as the RWNP is in charge. Democrats would never let this happen.

Fat hurts wrote:

Whodunit wrote:

Around 40 million Americans will be evicted from their homes this year due to the lockdowns

I don't know if it will be 40 million. That will depend on congress.

But make no mistake about it. The economy is sucking right now because we came out of lockdown too soon and the Republican White Nationalist Party refuses to pay for a lockdown that would solve the problem.

So the evictions will go forward as long as the RWNP is in charge. Democrats would never let this happen.

Way to clearly show political bias.

Fat hurts wrote:

Whodunit wrote:

Around 40 million Americans will be evicted from their homes this year due to the lockdowns

I don't know if it will be 40 million. That will depend on congress.

But make no mistake about it. The economy is sucking right now because we came out of lockdown too soon and the Republican White Nationalist Party refuses to pay for a lockdown that would solve the problem.

So the evictions will go forward as long as the RWNP is in charge. Democrats would never let this happen.

things will muddle through.

Sure there will be some evictions, but remember that if someone is evicted, the landlord would have no gain because it's unlikely she'll find another tenant. So most likely landords will lower rent and accept deferrals. Waiting for the vaccine to bring jobs back and let rent payers resume payments.

My office rent was lowered 28% without my even asking for it, for example.

interested reader wrote:

Lead Foil Hat wrote:(1) your attitude is one of arrogance when you really have no clue what you are talking about

(2) Don't call people stupid when you are clearly acting stupid and childish.

(1) I have a pretty good clue. Whether you feel I do is of no concern to me.

(2) I didn't call you stupid. But you did me just now.

No, you did not call me stupid, you just insinuated an arrogant prejudice against an entire group of good and smart hardworking Americans that disagree with your world view.... and essentially called the stupid:

"I look down on the conspiracy theory-spouting, science-denying, anti-public health, "liberty above all," "party in close contact because we all gotta die eventually amiright...?" crowd."

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

None of Sweden's neighbors actually went into full lock down either

You know very well that is a lie.

I already told you about how Norway and Denmark both had full lockdowns.

According to Wikipedia article on Norway:

On 12 March, a national lockdown was announced, effective from 18:00 the same day. For two weeks, schools, kindergartens, fitness centres, hair salons etc. were closed. Sports and cultural events and gatherings were banned and restrictions applied to restaurants.[21] These measures were in line with the those introduced in other European countries such as Denmark and Italy. The same day Norway had its first death due to the COVID-19 virus. The victim was an elderly person who died at Oslo University Hospital.[22]

They announced it would be two weeks, but it actually lasted a lot longer. Both Norway and Denmark didn't actually start reopening until late April, starting with day care and schools for young children. They reopened very slowly after getting cases fully under control.

If we had followed Norway and Denmark's plan we would now have a robust economy and things would be mostly back to normal.

You're missing the point again. You're trying to make the response to the pandemic and not the pandemic and human's behavior in reaction the key factor. That's just false. Your characterization of Norway is blatantly false:

.

The best way for the economy to kick up again is to not have an unchecked pandemic raging through parts of the country. I am not a lockdown person either. I don't know where you got that. I'm encouraging people to do the basics and ban only the things that we know are terrible ideas (large indoor gatherings, bars). For places that aren't having outbreaks, I am all for return to school. Unfortunately, a lot of eff-ups mean a lot of the country should not open school:

Ok, that is fair, but no need to call people stupid; it does not solve anything and deserves a rebuttal. The things is, yes Norway, Sweden, Denmark, et al....they all had targeted measures and protected their peoples and economies much better than many other places in Europe; so did many more Eastern European nations; Hungary for example. The effort of encouragement and raising awareness to what to do to protect you and your family while allowing people the freedom to figure things out the best they can is most appropriate. There is a modern liberal assumption going around that people are too stupid to do the right thing, and then they argue that other nations' people know how to do the right thing more than we do as Americans....it is just arrogant and false. Americans across the board have been doing a lot; those out there not doing what some think is right is in part a reaction of being told what to do because apparently they are too stupid to figure it out themselves. The arrogance of some is loud and counterproductive and in part a contributor to the higher death tolls here in the US. The main difference in many of these Scandinavian nations is that they have more respect for each other and do not confront and mock people like some Americans feel they are entitled to do. Arrogance = death; the more people cut it out the more lives will be saved.

agip wrote:

Fat hurts wrote:

I don't know if it will be 40 million. That will depend on congress.

But make no mistake about it. The economy is sucking right now because we came out of lockdown too soon and the Republican White Nationalist Party refuses to pay for a lockdown that would solve the problem.

So the evictions will go forward as long as the RWNP is in charge. Democrats would never let this happen.

things will muddle through.

Sure there will be some evictions, but remember that if someone is evicted, the landlord would have no gain because it's unlikely she'll find another tenant. So most likely landords will lower rent and accept deferrals. Waiting for the vaccine to bring jobs back and let rent payers resume payments.

My office rent was lowered 28% without my even asking for it, for example.

Residential evictions are the thing we must worry about most.

Some landlords will work with tenants. A lot won't. Many rent from large corporations who have strict policies on non-payment. Smaller landlords must have income from paying renters because they have mortgages and utilities to pay. They can't just let everyone slide.

So they have to get non-paying tenants out and hope to get someone new in there who can provide some cash.

Without congressional help, it is going to be a hot mess. But one interesting thing about it is that nobody keeps good statistics on evictions. We know exactly how many die from vending machine accidents but there are no government statistics on evictions. So we might not ever know exactly how big the problem is.

Fat hurts wrote:

Whodunit wrote:

Around 40 million Americans will be evicted from their homes this year due to the lockdowns

I don't know if it will be 40 million. That will depend on congress.

But make no mistake about it. The economy is sucking right now because we came out of lockdown too soon and the Republican White Nationalist Party refuses to pay for a lockdown that would solve the problem.

So the evictions will go forward as long as the RWNP is in charge. Democrats would never let this happen.

Of course the Dems will let this happen. They are no better than the GOP. It took me years to accept this but the truth is obvious

Perhaps they were 40 years ago. Not now. Both are owned by the same people

I suspect it will be at least 40 million when all is said and done

Fat hurts wrote:

So we might not ever know exactly how big the problem is.

Oh this one we will. We won't need the media to tell us about it when better than one in ten Americans is made homeless.

Unlike the Covid, we will see this one in everyday life

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

There is a modern liberal assumption going around that people are too stupid to do the right thing, and then they argue that other nations' people know how to do the right thing more than we do as Americans.

There is a modern conservative assumption that America can do no wrong.

Maybe with better leadership we could have solved the problem with gentle persuasion and goodwill. But that obviously hasn't worked. We just have to face the fact that other nations did the right thing and we did not.

So to actually fix the problem, we have to take more stringent measures. And unfortunately, because we screwed up so badly the first time it will require a longer lockdown to get cases under control.

The article about Israel is not really saying much; 2000 case since May? How many of the kids are really sick? Israel has had less than 6 deaths per million to date; if the schools were a problem it would have been much worse by now. Denmark is the same way; opened after Easter and they are sitting at very very low death counts. How many school kids get the flu each year; millions? I am not sure why the WSJ is getting into scare mongering, but this is a major misrepresentation of the situation.

Whodunit wrote:

Fat hurts wrote:

So we might not ever know exactly how big the problem is.

Oh this one we will. We won't need the media to tell us about it when better than one in ten Americans is made homeless.

Unlike the Covid, we will see this one in everyday life

By that measure, I fear you may be right.

You may want to ask these folks where they get their numbers from:

Seems they published numbers through 2016. Not sure if there is anything more recent available - or anything available in real time.

Whodunit wrote:

Of course the Dems will let this happen. They are no better than the GOP. It took me years to accept this but the truth is obvious

Perhaps they were 40 years ago. Not now. Both are owned by the same people

The truth of that statement has diminished quite a lot. These days, it really does matter which party is in charge.

The problem is the issue of public safety has been politicized. Are people in other countries smarter? Probably not. They're less defiant, though and more willing to listen to public health experts. Led astray by leaders like Trump, DeSantis and Kemp there is a large segment of the US population that thinks not wearing a mask is not only their "right," but a way to own the libs and make a statement. Many believe that there's a large conspiracy to tank the economy to damage Trump and repress Hydroxycloroquine use to accomplish those goals. Now, you can claim that liberals' arrogance is the why people believe those things. I'd say it's poor leadership and misinformation by the people they listen to: FOX News, Sinclair Networks, Trump, Pence, their governors, OANN and so on.

Yes, I knew about evictionlab. If this is who I think it is, they were the ones I saw complaining about not having government stats. I got the impression that their stats are the best we have but are not the kind of rigorous statistics we typically get from the government on such matters.