This thread was deleted by a volunteer moderator. I certainly don't want a thread this big deleted so I've restored. THat being said, this thread has served it's purpose. I've closed it to new posts.
We have a new 2024 vaccine thread here. New people don't need to try to wade through 20,000 posts to figure out what is going on.
Normal people would define unvaxxed exclusively as ZERO doses.
You lose.
"Unvaccinated Case: A person who tests positive for COVID-19 and who is not fully vaccinated or boosted yet. This includes people who have not had any doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, those who have only had one dose of the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine, or those for whom 14 days have not passed between their positive COVID-19 test and their last dose in a primary vaccine series."
Yes. Omicron infected way more people than Delta and spread a lot faster. A high percentage of people were infected and had therefore been conferred a level of immunity/protection at the same time in the same location. In simple terms, this is what the vaccine was intended to do - confer immunity/protection to high percentage of a population at the same time. For several reasons, vaccine hesitancy, inadequate supplies, logistical issues, supply chain issues, etc., vaccination programs failed to deliver what Omicron did. Sure. The vaccines may have eventually ended the pandemic, but we don't know this for sure. The much slower delivery system for disease protection may have allowed other deadly Covid variants to develop and prolong the pandemic. A lot of things could have happened in the extended period of time that it took vaccination programs to end the pandemic (if they even would have).
We don't know if the vaccines would have eventually ended the pandemic. What we do know is that Omicron did end the pandemic.
Better yet, in the very few studies that bothered to look, natural immunity after one infection was shown to be just as good two vaccines. Even better actually. Then, two vaccines wasn’t good enough so we needed a booster and a bivalent booster. A mild Omicron infection would’ve been better than a third and fourth vaccine but nobody bothered to look.
I'm sure that research has been published. Not sure the conclusions are what you want it to show though.
The way I read this isn’t he’s advocating hydroxychloroquine, he’s simply saying the study (data collation) that hard core vaxxers here have promoted isn’t credible. It’s not. That’s not the same thing as saying hydroxychloroquine is helpful.
Just one more trial bro, just one more trial
Nobody is asking for a trial dunce. Simply pointing out that this ‘study’ is bunk, because it is. I mean at least find a subset of people who aren’t already severely ill and hospitalized to make your claim. Holy f*ck you narcissists cling to your bias.
Omicron infected way, way more people than Delta did so your numbers are consistent with the vaccine being essential at preventing death. Almost everyone was eventually going to get COVID. Thankfully vaccines allows this to happen without killing another million + Americans.
The pandemic was over before Omicron, we just didn't know it yet :)
Yes. Omicron infected way more people than Delta and spread a lot faster. A high percentage of people were infected and had therefore been conferred a level of immunity/protection at the same time in the same location. In simple terms, this is what the vaccine was intended to do - confer immunity/protection to high percentage of a population at the same time. For several reasons, vaccine hesitancy, inadequate supplies, logistical issues, supply chain issues, etc., vaccination programs failed to deliver what Omicron did. Sure. The vaccines may have eventually ended the pandemic, but we don't know this for sure. The much slower delivery system for disease protection may have allowed other deadly Covid variants to develop and prolong the pandemic. A lot of things could have happened in the extended period of time that it took vaccination programs to end the pandemic (if they even would have).
We don't know if the vaccines would have eventually ended the pandemic. What we do know is that Omicron did end the pandemic.
You have the basic results backwards.
Vaccines meant the massive Omicron wave resulted in comparatively little deaths. The pandemic was over pre-Omicron because any subsequent wave was massively blunted by widespread vaccination (ignoring the antivaxxers who decided to die for their politics).
Without vaccines Omicron would have killed hundreds of thousands on its way to 'ending the pandemic.' It did not do this because of vaccines, thus the pandemic was actually over before Omicron.
If your argument is that widespread infection is the only thing that can end a pandemic... well, vaccines will always fall short of that bar :)
Nobody is asking for a trial dunce. Simply pointing out that this ‘study’ is bunk, because it is. I mean at least find a subset of people who aren’t already severely ill and hospitalized to make your claim. Holy f*ck you narcissists cling to your bias.
HCQ killed tens of thousands. Many, many trials were all run on many different populations. All of them failed. HCQ isn't just another comical example of antivaxxer idiocy, it's a tragic case of 'well, it can't hurt' = 'let's kill lots of innocent people.'
But hey, antivaxxers are too dumb do understand this.
Better yet, in the very few studies that bothered to look, natural immunity after one infection was shown to be just as good two vaccines. Even better actually. Then, two vaccines wasn’t good enough so we needed a booster and a bivalent booster. A mild Omicron infection would’ve been better than a third and fourth vaccine but nobody bothered to look.
I'm sure that research has been published. Not sure the conclusions are what you want it to show though.
Yup, just look at the data: unvaccinated are still dying at a much higher rate than vaccinated in Utah:
Normal people would define unvaxxed exclusively as ZERO doses.
You lose.
"Unvaccinated Case: A person who tests positive for COVID-19 and who is not fully vaccinated or boosted yet. This includes people who have not had any doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, those who have only had one dose of the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine, or those for whom 14 days have not passed between their positive COVID-19 test and their last dose in a primary vaccine series."
Dan, the data show the unvaxxed are dying at many times the rate still. Natural immunity is trash.
The number of people who only got 1 dose of the vaccine or those who are getting their first doses now is vanishingly small. The dead Americans in that graph are antivaxxers. Your propaganda helped send them to an early grave. Does that feel good?
Yes. Omicron infected way more people than Delta and spread a lot faster. A high percentage of people were infected and had therefore been conferred a level of immunity/protection at the same time in the same location. In simple terms, this is what the vaccine was intended to do - confer immunity/protection to high percentage of a population at the same time. For several reasons, vaccine hesitancy, inadequate supplies, logistical issues, supply chain issues, etc., vaccination programs failed to deliver what Omicron did. Sure. The vaccines may have eventually ended the pandemic, but we don't know this for sure. The much slower delivery system for disease protection may have allowed other deadly Covid variants to develop and prolong the pandemic. A lot of things could have happened in the extended period of time that it took vaccination programs to end the pandemic (if they even would have).
We don't know if the vaccines would have eventually ended the pandemic. What we do know is that Omicron did end the pandemic.
You have the basic results backwards.
Vaccines meant the massive Omicron wave resulted in comparatively little deaths. The pandemic was over pre-Omicron because any subsequent wave was massively blunted by widespread vaccination (ignoring the antivaxxers who decided to die for their politics).
Without vaccines Omicron would have killed hundreds of thousands on its way to 'ending the pandemic.' It did not do this because of vaccines, thus the pandemic was actually over before Omicron.
If your argument is that widespread infection is the only thing that can end a pandemic... well, vaccines will always fall short of that bar :)
That's an interesting take to say the least. Primarily based on suppositions and wishful thinking and not facts, data and the general scientific consensus, but it's interesting nonetheless. LOL
Vaccines meant the massive Omicron wave resulted in comparatively little deaths. The pandemic was over pre-Omicron because any subsequent wave was massively blunted by widespread vaccination (ignoring the antivaxxers who decided to die for their politics).
Without vaccines Omicron would have killed hundreds of thousands on its way to 'ending the pandemic.' It did not do this because of vaccines, thus the pandemic was actually over before Omicron.
If your argument is that widespread infection is the only thing that can end a pandemic... well, vaccines will always fall short of that bar :)
That's an interesting take to say the least. Primarily based on suppositions and wishful thinking and not facts, data and the general scientific consensus, but it's interesting nonetheless. LOL
I'd love to see your definition of consensus.
Do you think vaccines did/did not prevent a majority of possible deaths during the Omicron wave in the US?
This post was edited 8 seconds after it was posted.
Dan, the data show the unvaxxed are dying at many times the rate still. Natural immunity is trash.
The number of people who only got 1 dose of the vaccine or those who are getting their first doses now is vanishingly small. The dead Americans in that graph are antivaxxers. Your propaganda helped send them to an early grave. Does that feel good?
The Australian Open 2024 will begin in less than a week as top stars in the world of tennis gather to stamp their authority on the first Grand Slam of the year. Like any other year, the Australian Open will be ready to serve...
That's an interesting take to say the least. Primarily based on suppositions and wishful thinking and not facts, data and the general scientific consensus, but it's interesting nonetheless. LOL
I'd love to see your definition of consensus.
Do you think vaccines did/did not prevent a majority of possible deaths during the Omicron wave in the US?
Vaccines absolutely prevented deaths during the Omicron wave. As I stated several posts ago, that is not the crux of the discussion. If you would like to turn the discussion in another direction, feel free to do so, but I'm not interested. Although, it is quite entertaining to see you attempt to twist and turn the conversation in search of that "gotcha" moment. :)
Do you think vaccines did/did not prevent a majority of possible deaths during the Omicron wave in the US?
Vaccines absolutely prevented deaths during the Omicron wave. As I stated several posts ago, that is not the crux of the discussion. If you would like to turn the discussion in another direction, feel free to do so, but I'm not interested. Although, it is quite entertaining to see you attempt to twist and turn the conversation in search of that "gotcha" moment. :)
It's important. If you think vaccines prevented a majority of possible deaths from the Omicron wave then you believe that the vaccines ended the pandemic.
Neither the vaccines nor Omicron give great sterilizing immunity. People still get (almost always) mild infections after either source of immunity.
So, you can't just say 'Omicron gave a bunch of people immunity therefore it ended the pandemic' because the immunity they got from Omicron was no better (and arguably worse) than the vaccine immunity that preceded it. Omicron didn't do much in terms of immunity!
Mass Omicron infections did little to change the outcome of future infections to COVID – mass vaccination did! This is because most people already had great immune protection from the vaccines prior to Omicron.
Omicron was noteworthy because there were a ton of infections, but the did not actually change the course of the pandemic. That course was already set by the vaccines, which defined the vast majority of effective immune responses.
Dan, the data show the unvaxxed are dying at many times the rate still. Natural immunity is trash.
The number of people who only got 1 dose of the vaccine or those who are getting their first doses now is vanishingly small. The dead Americans in that graph are antivaxxers. Your propaganda helped send them to an early grave. Does that feel good?
Vaccines absolutely prevented deaths during the Omicron wave. As I stated several posts ago, that is not the crux of the discussion. If you would like to turn the discussion in another direction, feel free to do so, but I'm not interested. Although, it is quite entertaining to see you attempt to twist and turn the conversation in search of that "gotcha" moment. :)
It's important. If you think vaccines prevented a majority of possible deaths from the Omicron wave then you believe that the vaccines ended the pandemic.
Neither the vaccines nor Omicron give great sterilizing immunity. People still get (almost always) mild infections after either source of immunity.
So, you can't just say 'Omicron gave a bunch of people immunity therefore it ended the pandemic' because the immunity they got from Omicron was no better (and arguably worse) than the vaccine immunity that preceded it. Omicron didn't do much in terms of immunity!
Mass Omicron infections did little to change the outcome of future infections to COVID – mass vaccination did! This is because most people already had great immune protection from the vaccines prior to Omicron.
Omicron was noteworthy because there were a ton of infections, but the did not actually change the course of the pandemic. That course was already set by the vaccines, which defined the vast majority of effective immune responses.
Robin Hood: "What you said is correct but there is a hidden secret that makes you actually wrong... no I wont explain it!"
This is essentially all antivax arguments when they are asked to provide data.
He cannot face the fact that hundreds of thousands of Americans are dead – and many are still dying – because they did not take the vaccine.
Dan, you helped cause these deaths. Many would call this behavior murderous.
How does that make you feel?
I think the simpler explanation is he actually cannot understand and comprehend your posts and claims.
He only knows how to most the same 6 articles and make the same 3 comment (I, an unvaccinated person...) over and over
300k+ deaths must resonate with anyone. The responsibility must weigh a bit. So many innocent people taken from their loved ones... So much propaganda spread by willful, murderous antivaxxers...
Dr. Anthony Fauci confessed to lawmakers Tuesday that guidelines to keep six feet of separation — ostensibly to limit the spread of COVID-19 — “sort of just appeared” withou…
