50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

I am really late enjoying the weekend masters share thread. Still, always interesting. Couple of bullet points from me.

• Excited to be back on 2015 training and racing plan highlighted by building both aerobic & anaerobic tanks. The more I work on the left side (aerobic) the healthier I remain for the right side. Yesterday ran a 13.1 miler in 1:37:25 with final 5k in 20:45.

• I worked for Nike Running Footwear Product Creation for 27 years. Retired 10 months ago. I could go on and on about the 4%’s. Maybe I’ll start a just-for-fun shoe-review podcast. I’ve run every day in these from final test year to first & second commercial versions. Like everyone already knows we are all different. My individual benefit is that the Zote Foam + Carbon Fibre + Geometric Shape from Heel to Toe keeps this old bouncy strider with 102,000 miles going. For me “It’s an efficiency thing”.

• PED-gate? I’m with Cush. And all those who choose do the hard work (usually too hard) in order to toe the line to race anybody, anytime, anywhere.

All the best to the toughest of all Club National Harriers.

KP

You sound threatened.

[quote]MikeF wrote:

Not exactly a masters doping story...instead just a personal drug testing anecdote.

At any rate, they drug test the top 3 and 3 at random. I come across the line and am chosen as a ‘random’ ...and so have an immediate escort with a plastic cup for me to pee in. I get ushered into the local middle school adjacent to the finish, and the top three finishers are in there with their ‘escorts’ too.

Have you ever tried to pee after running balls out for 62 miles???? Ain’t easy. At any rate after we all shuffled about for 20 minutes or so and NONE of us could ‘go’, I sent my girlfriend out to buy a couple of suitcases of beer...as we all down the suds, like clockwork, nearly each and every one of us has to pee...all at the same time. We nearly had a fistfight to see who would get into the bathroom first.

Good story

I have been tested a couple of times. Both times were very difficult. Dehydrated both times. In Spokane two summers ago, after 2 hours and several bottles of water could finally go. Then had to go every 15 minutes for the next couple of hours. A few years ago was tested after running the 10,000 in Michigan at the outdoor championships. I had a difficult time. I can never go if someone is watching me. Plus I was so dehydrated. I kept thinking I was going to miss my flight. I finally was able to produce making my flight just in time. Good thing I had an aisle seat as I was up every few minutes. Being tested is not fun. 65

Back in the early 1990s when I was an almost sub-elite marathoner I was tested twice and had the same problem. Even after just 26.2 miles on a cold day there was no way I could produce a urine sample anytime soon. Having no one to fetch me a beer, I just had to drink a lot of water and wait for nature to take its course.

never been tested as a masters runner, so besides me, who knows what i'm on or not on, but i've got three anecdotes:

1) at ucla in probably 1986-7, they started "random" testing with ncaa athletes. all i remember is that you had to be completely nude--you couldn't even wear socks--in the bathroom while someone watched you pee in a cup. some had issues--i seem to remember stanford athletes suing on privacy rights, but can't remember the outcome (no pun intended). like MF, a few of us had some beers before (since they weren't testing for alcohol), and had no issues beyond the cold (and dirty) tile floors...

2) in my elite days, i remember in 1995 having a tester show up at my apartment on a saturday night as i was bathing with my 2 year old son (both of us in the tub) while getting ready to go out to a party. once you answer the doorbell, you were obligated to provide a sample, which i did, but i remember thinking how inconvenient it was...

3) in 1994, i placed 7th at nationals in the 1500m--not bad in the scheme of things. however, i remember being somewhat indignant at the fact that they drug tested the top 7, but the top 6 got medals. i figured if you're going to mandate i pee in a cup, give me a GD medal while you're at it (like the 6 other dudes). worth noting: this was in the warmer climes of knoxville tennessee, and more than a few struggled after only 1500m of racing, so i can imagine the dehydration effects of the longer races and the ensuing problems...

so, yes, i get to use the same defense as other cheaters: i've never failed a test (all 3 times that i was tested). but it don't mean $#!+. again, all i've got to go on is my experience--30+ years at a pretty high level--and my gut to base my opinion: not many are doing it. the ones that may be doing it as some sort of medically based hormone therapy, i'd like to think they are not the ones on the podium at the national championships that i've been a part of in the last 12 years. maybe i am being naive, but i sleep well at night...

cush

I was pulled for urinalysis after the 1972 Olympic Trials Marathon. I have no idea what the testing was for since this was early years, perhaps drugs or research. I had a head cold that week and was very dehydrated after the race. I sat and I sat. One of my buddies came by to hurry me up and said “I need to take a piss.” We both looked at each other, and the light came on.

Macy wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I was able to do 20 miles in four days plus some fluff (60:00 spin plus 1,000 yard swim).

Best to you.

?

You sound threatened.

Yes, my manhood, you know. Sensitive that way. Never have been able to come to grips my lack of running talent. That is why I bike and swim, which I am actually worse at. Walking, at a leisurely pace, like at a store, my wife always tells me to slow down.

?

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I was pulled for urinalysis after the 1972 Olympic Trials Marathon. I have no idea what the testing was for since this was early years, perhaps drugs or research. I had a head cold that week and was very dehydrated after the race. I sat and I sat. One of my buddies came by to hurry me up and said “I need to take a piss.” We both looked at each other, and the light came on.

Your buddy could not take a piss without you?

I thought about this during my morning session. What constitutes fluff in training? Is it anything that is not running specific? Could it also be anything counterproductive to improving fitness? One could consider a day off as fluff, but if it prepares one for a harder training session than perhaps not. Certainly a day off seems fluffier than say a day of cross training. Another day of mileage may not be fluff on initial view, but if is pointless counting to reach a non-specific goal, that could be considered fluff. That would be especially pointless if it leads to constant injury. So, what are the implications of fluff?

?

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I thought about this during my morning session. What constitutes fluff in training? Is it anything that is not running specific? Could it also be anything counterproductive to improving fitness? One could consider a day off as fluff, but if it prepares one for a harder training session than perhaps not. Certainly a day off seems fluffier than say a day of cross training. Another day of mileage may not be fluff on initial view, but if is pointless counting to reach a non-specific goal, that could be considered fluff. That would be especially pointless if it leads to constant injury. So, what are the implications of fluff?

?

To dive a bit deeper on your thought, you could look at a fluff day from a physical or psychological point of view. As one ages, a day off might be a very much needed "fluff" day. But personally I don't like fluff days but still have them.

Sometimes I wonder when I am running very easily if I am getting any aerobic benefit. But since I just love to run I am still getting some mental benefits.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I thought about this during my morning session. What constitutes fluff in training? Is it anything that is not running specific? Could it also be anything counterproductive to improving fitness? One could consider a day off as fluff, but if it prepares one for a harder training session than perhaps not. Certainly a day off seems fluffier than say a day of cross training. Another day of mileage may not be fluff on initial view, but if is pointless counting to reach a non-specific goal, that could be considered fluff. That would be especially pointless if it leads to constant injury. So, what are the implications of fluff?

?

It's a stupid term, IMO, unless it's a term that overly obsessed competitive runners like to use. I no longer run competitively due to chronic injuries & OA developing in three of my joints. ? Decades of wear & tear has put this cat off the grid. I'm a fitness runner/avid exerciser - 7 days a week in one form or fashion. I'm only able manage 3 days per week of running anyway, and maybe 4 miles if I'm lucky. Some days it's more of a walk/jog combo because of a flare ups. However, at least once a week I'll try to hit a full-throttle 2 miler to improve VO2max and stroke volume for the old ticker (like taking the old vintage car out for a spin and see how the engine does). So, maybe my most of my walk/jog days are fluff but it beats having to work out at the crazy gym 7 days a week. ?

The bad thing about fitness running is I miss the training that I was able and loved to do to be competitive. The thing I don't miss about competitive running is actually having to race and getting beat my many in my age-group. Society has put such a big emphasis on performance vs participation these days - even at the masters level. Participation means little for older runners now at races where faster, more successful masters runners get all the glory (we become another sad story. Lol). Society pokes fun at the 4 1/2+ hour middle-aged marathoner but yet goes crazy with glory for the middle-ager who breaks 3 hours.

So, it's nice to be a fluffer and train for fitness and the enjoyment of just getting outdoors and moving the body. ? No more races, no more membership to the masters running club, no more race goals, no more starvation diets to lose weight before key races, no more frustration because I couldn't train for a race due to injury, no more frustration of getting your butt kicked by guys who have exceptional genetics for running & anti-aging.

And that...is my take on this Monday morning. ?

Que Sera Sera

Regarding fluff... There was a discussion here awhile back as to what constituted “mileage”. There were posts supporting the idea that “mileage” reports should only include running miles, while others supported the idea that “mileage” could include ancillary activities. In the post that triggered Igy, I believe the poster is trying to say that his mileage was all running and did not include biking, walking, weight lifting, etc.

Old D3 runner wrote:

Regarding fluff... There was a discussion here awhile back as to what constituted “mileage”. There were posts supporting the idea that “mileage” reports should only include running miles, while others supported the idea that “mileage” could include ancillary activities. In the post that triggered Igy, I believe the poster is trying to say that his mileage was all running and did not include biking, walking, weight lifting, etc.

It is serious and relevant topic, less so than me being triggered. As noted, how is a day of cross training more fluffy than a day of rest? Also as noted, running a mileage goal that continually keeps one injured seems pointless . I have also said more than once that specificity is clearly the desired path, but what if you simply cannot handle the running volume? I ran a classic interval session this morning with jogging recoveries; a year ago the same type of session would be shorter with required walking recoveries. There was no fluff then and no fluff now. The training is designed to fit the current fitness and goal of the athlete. If one considers non-running aerobic activity as fluff, to degrade it’s value, that is physiologically incorrect. Furthermore, just tracking running volume without working the different energy systems, seems one sided at best.

I don't disagree, but I think you missed my point. Allow me to simplify what I believe the point to be: mileage = running, fluff = non-running activities. Both obviously have value and you can refer to the earlier discussion about whether or not the latter should be included with one's reported mileage. I don't care either way, but I believe the poster was pointing out his "mileage" was exclusively running as opposed to others like you who include non-running in their mileage reports.

OK, but avoids the real questions of why fluff, is that a useful term or optimal way to train?

Because of my PF problem from last fall, I didn't decide to run this St. Jude race until January. 11 months before the race, all the hotel rooms in Downtown Memphis had been already sold out. So I decided to book a room in the "Medical district." (People who have been to Memphis know where it is.) I told myself, "no big deal. I did this in 2009."

Well, things have changed a lot in 10 years. Most of the parking garages and lots in downtown are unusable, because they happen to sit in the middle of marathon course. A few on the edge of the course were occupied pretty quickly by 10k and 5k participants who started one hour early. I had to drive around a lot to find an open space on the street to park my car. And then, I tried to walk to the start corral only to find the access was blocked because of the 10k race. I finally reached Corral M. I didn't know there was such a thing as Corral M, but then I had to walk through a lot of non-runners to get to my Corral (B). Given people at the front start first, shouldn't they have the easiest access to their corral? Anyway, I managed to get to the back of my corral 30 seconds before the start.

Then the gun went off. Since I didn't get to do any warm up, I thought it might not be a bad idea to start slow. Except... some of those people in the back are way too slow they had no business lining up in Corral B. And on top of that, one of my shoe strings got untied a few minutes into the race. So I had to step aside to retie the string. (I had forgotten to check my strings before the start. After all, I had only 30 seconds to get ready.) Shortly after going through the first mile in 8:49, I passed the 3:40 pace team. Shortly after mile 2, I passed the 3:35 pace team. I passed the 3:30 pace team around mile 5, and then finally passed the 3:25 pace team after mile 10. The only problem I had on the course was the confusion at hydration stations.I had no idea who had water and who had sports drink, and had to take whatever was handed to me. This is the only race I have this problem. All the other races figured out this issue long time ago.

After the race, I tried to get the results. I was told that no half marathon results were ready. (This was about 2 hours 15 minutes after the race had started.) So I decided to take a long walk to get back to my car. But my ordeal was not over. Because of the parking map provided by the organizer misidentified the "Green Zone" (the place where all roads remain open), dozens, if not hundreds of cars were stuck in intersections. It took me a while to figure out how to go around all the congestion to get back to my hotel.

I managed to run 1:41 and change in all the chaos and finish 8th out of 354 in my AG. It was my first top 10 finish in Memphis. I guess the competition is much easier in half than in marathon. I also moved up from 379th @10k to 317th @ 15k to finish in 289th OA out of 9772. Now I have to look for a room for the next year so that I won't have to go through this misery again.

P.S. They had to move the expo to Southaven, MS because the convention center was closed for renovation. The traffic to Southaven was atrocious, and it took about an extra hour to get there. And then, once we were inside, we had to wait for much longer than usual to get our bag and shirt. At least we know this was a temporary problem that we won't have to worry about next year.

I can’t imagine running a big city half/marathon. Sounds like a lot of effort and hassle just to get to the starting line, let alone the finish line. Congratulations on your perseverance.

I really have had it with race operations that can't do operations. Which brings me to Saturday night's 5K. It was fine, no complaints, I ran hard, negative splitted, turned in a 17:27 BUT ... my watch said 3.05 miles. And so did the watch of the guy who finished ahead of me (no "grandpa wins" this year). At 17:27 it's a PR. At 17:27 and however-long-it-takes-to-run-another-50m-in-that-state, it's still a PR. But c'mon man! This was the same race where last year, I had to extrapolate my 5K time because the pacer bike got lost and cut off a quarter-mile. First time shame on you. Second time ....

So I won't be entering any of their races again. (I won't disclose the company's name, but it's a franchise and it rhymes with Lawdie-Dawdie-Dawdies.) However, I did register tonight for the 8K in San Diego and I'm already super excited to get my butt kicked by men 10 years my senior. Saturday night I ran the last mile and half with no one in sight behind me and just the lights of the pacer bike taunting me in the distance. That's a lonely feeling and I'm sick of it. I'm looking forward to running in a competitive pack, even if it's from the rear.

KCgeezer wrote:

It was fine, no complaints