50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Alan, after some thought my initial takeaway from the article at the gross level is that as we age it is probably worthwhile to pay some attention to having a consistent quality protein intake in our diets on the general theory that better inputs should lead to better and/or more efficient protein synthesis. Beyond that, as you put it, there is no quick and easy take home message. It's good though to see research that may lead to some better and more precise guidance on what to do for healthy aging.

As for my training, I generally am getting mildly crazy and a little stressed at the thought of racing Club XC next weekend. Because it will be my first race as a 70 year old and I have some expectation that I can do reasonably well, and I am part of a 70+ team that is also hoping I can do my part on scoring I am a little more anxious than usual about producing a good effort. I'll have to work on my positive imagery this coming week. This past week I took it pretty easy to get freshened up and rested.

M- 6mi walk + strides

T, W, Th -rest

F- 4 easy run

S- 4 easy run

Su- 4mi walk + strides

Best of luck to all my fellow masters headed for Club XC and please pray for not terrible weather.

P.S. Relative to the discussion thread on Masters PED usage, my impression from 30 years of consistent masters racing is that nearly all of the people at the top of the age group results and times list are clean athletes who have more talent than most of us and work hard at getting the most out of that talent. There undoubtedly are a few exceptions to that but I think it is a very small percentage of the serious masters ranks.

MOSTLY just extraordinarily grateful to be able to remain in forward motion.

Today made for 344 consecutive days, so, closing in on an entire year long ‘streak’...I can practically smell the barn.

That being said, there were a total of 26 miles recorded for the week...most were ‘active recovery ‘ aside from a mini track session that was comprised of 4 x 100 ( 27, 24, 23, 24)...really just an extension of the warm up...then, a blistering ;) 200 (51)...as I was by then, just about out of time, opted for a hard 1200 to finish up (5:08)...pleased to go 1:48, 1:45, 1:35 ...psyched to finish strong .

In spite of a continually gimpy right foot, it appears that we’ve got just enough general fitness to become ‘dangerous’ come 2020.

Wishing everyone great health, speed, and fitness...go forth and thrive.

your pal,

MF

OGII interesting an relates to how the aging process works why genes turn off methylation then you have the original bio clock Horvath's epigentic clock commercial version is avail then ya got of resveratrol fame David Sinclair who now claims

he discovered a way to reset the clock. He is moving towards human trials to treat retinopathy

https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/sinclair/research.php

Sinclair's work is based on 2012 Nobel Prize

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2012/press-release/

Or some people are doing the young blood stuff right now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykhOCbekyKk

65 Never bring a knife to a gun fight;) If I was good enough to contend the half at worlds VF time for sure. Just makes the playing field level.

Theory is less ground contact time which translates into longer stride length. I felt like the VFs reduced my tendency to overstride.

VF Next%$$$ Compare to regular shoes

3 minutes at 10mph 0 grade in my goruns HR 159

3 minutes at 10mph 0 grade in the VFs HR 153

6 bpm delta which equates to 5 percent of 120 heart rate reserve which is about what I figured

Side note my HRR(heart rate recovery) at 60 seconds was 123bpm for both 3 minute runs.

Still taking them back because IMO VFs increase risk of injury otherwise it would be fun to run in them pogo sticks now and then.

Training wise I have made a few changes that seem promising:

1 hour treadmill run/walks 2 minutes running 1 minute walking on 3 to 5 percent incline the running is often done at 3.6 mph with a focus on a bouncy fast turnover legs feel good doing this but I miss the sand but my knees feel better this spring I will try the dunes again

4x30 seconds all out with full recovery running/sprinting on the bike out of the saddle wow this feels amazing

thats it!

my sympathies. those sound like really frustrating injury scenarios. Best of luck with the comeback.

all easy stuff for me this week:

M 30:00 + 1:15 x-t

Tu 30:00 + 1:00 x-t

W 60:0 + 45:00 x-t

Th 60:00 x-t

F 60:00 + 60:00 x-t

Sa 1:20

Su 1:05 x-t

at the risk of bragging, I also pitched a shutout as course marshal at an 8k this morning. 292 runners, and I steered all 292 to make a right turn at my intersection. Zero went the wrong way!

have a great week,

Dave

finished the real training for clubs last sunday with 20x400 with 100m rest, averaging around 76, solo effort. i hate getting on the track alone, but i figured i need a workout that would test my mental mettle as well as my physical strength. i can't sustain this kind of discipline, but once in a blue moon solo efforts like this are good for me. this came on the end of a 78 mile week, so 88 miles for 8 days. i followed this up with a tuesday calcoast track session with heavy legs--ran 2x1200, 2x800 at 80+ second paces, fairly slow and relaxed for me, then blasted off a 400 in 61. i'd like to think with a little less fatigue i can still break 60, but if felt good to go all-out regardless of the time. this week will see easy miles with occasional tempo-like efforts as i rest for clubs...

on the masters PEDs thread: i have learned to take these threads with a grain of 100% usada/wada-approved salt. they appear periodically, and i used to get on them to defend myself and my age-group peers, but have since realized that no one of import is starting those threads, and i'm always left wondering why the knuckleheads even care since they are likely not "one of us?" i'm with others on this more sane and more representative thread: i highly doubt PED use is "rampant," and i don't think i'm being naive. of course there are some cheaters, and of course any idiot can extrapolate the few who've gotten caught combined with the amazing performances of some of our peers and come up with a number/percentage, but that kind of speculative math is way more naive than the good ol' fashioned experience in the sport and interaction with peers that most of us have experienced...

that's my story and i'm sticking to it.

carpe crepusculum,

cush

old guy II wrote:

as we age it is probably worthwhile to pay some attention to having a consistent quality protein intake in our diets on the general theory that better inputs should lead to better and/or more efficient protein synthesis. Beyond that, as you put it, there is no quick and easy take home message. It's good though to see research that may lead to some better and more precise guidance on what to do for healthy aging.

The best way to keep your cells functioning at the highest level which IMO is the key thing you can do is make sure you get plenty of all forms of Autophagy or self eating recycling of broken misfolded proteins as well as other stuff. Protein synthesis is pretty easy to understand except for the folding part which is crucial for proper functioning. When your cells are full of disfunctional / broken/ misfolded proteins the protein production machinery does not work very well. Catabolism is just as important as Anabolism. Clean out the cells via autophagy then make HIGHER functioning proteins in the clean

cell. How do we regulate these processes well ya gotta keep from stimulating the mtor1 pathways which are responsible for the initiation of anabolism for most of the time. Certain amino acids, insulin, IGF-1 and glucose can all activate mtor1 but what you really want is mtor1 to activate based upon lysosomal signaling

Well, rumors of my imminent demise may be somewhat exaggerated. Hopefully.

Starting small but have run a bit this week with no pain. So if all continues to go well, in about a month I'll be pretty close to where I'd be anyway--because I'd be taking the last couple weeks off. Somewhat disappointing not to have closed out the season with a good half attempt and Club XCs, but feeling good with some cross training and starting to get a few running miles in this week and next.

Regarding the masters doping discussion, there are a few online trolls who think that anyone beating them at the local 5K must be on TRT, EPO, or banned over the counter aids. etc., I know I'm clean--and sure that's all we can know unless privy to some sort of insider intel--but I also firmly believe that the use of PEDs in masters/age group running at the local and national level is probably pretty low. And I get pretty outraged at the blanket statement that it's at 95% even at the regional level! WTF? Someone needs their psych meds. Probably shouldn't even engage with these (in letsrunspeak) morans, but I'm defending my peers and integrity of the sport. I would definitely like to see more drug testing at big races and championships, as well out of competition testing of frequent competitors. End of rant for now, and while I may come across as an unlikable lunatic, so what? I'm passionate about masters running and like 65 and OGII and others here, believe that most part it's clean.

I expressed my opinions on the shoes, and still holding out on jumping on that bandwagon yet, but think the inevitable is upon us unless World Athletics comes down with some restrictions. My first big races aren't until spring, so I'll wait until then and see what's available. A couple of other brands are coming out with their models over the next several months. I'm hoping that the Alphafly is not ruled eligible, it seems over the top. Before we know it we'll be in 4" platform shoes with a 10-15% energy return. At $1200 a pop.

Mon. 45 min kayak. 50 min mtn bike.

Tue. 50 min mtn bike. 35 min run with 3 x Roo Hill.

Wed. 75 min mtn bike.

Thu. 40 min mtn bike broken up by running 10 x 60 metre hill sprints.

Fri. 1 hour hilly road bike. 40 min kayak.

Sat. Hard 50 min hill run.

Sun. Hilly 95 min run.

Just enough to keep me moving.

No interest in the magic shoes. If I were to run a "fast time" in them I wouldn't know what was me and what was them.

jimBOS: No need to apologize, we’ve all been there more than a few times.

amKelly, socal, et. al knocking down some damn good training. Impressive!

Charlie: My one-stop-fix-everything-goto-lead-pipe-cinch method…...is to fast. But people think that’s nuts so I don’t go on about it.

Doping: I know only one person in the last 15 or so years that I genuinely suspected of using something. Otherwise, hell, we are lucky just staying out of the injury hole, let alone, use something to accelerate the risk.

TU: 4 with 3 easy at 9:53 pace

TH: 4 with 3 easy at 9:18 pace

SA: 4 with 3 at sub-threshold pace (8:24). My threshold is about 8 flat right now

SU: 4 easy, paved greenway

Pretty good week. I’m like a child that’s discovered a new “toy”, and “sub-threshold” is my new shiny object. I’ll be using these runs more during this lull before early spring races. That and, of course, threshold runs. I’m going to try really hard to scooch that thing down as easily as possible.

Have a great week folks!

Not exactly a masters doping story...instead just a personal drug testing anecdote.

So, in my mid 30s , I raced the USATF National Championships (qualifying for the World Championships) 100K...Edmund Fitzgerald 100K from Grand Maris, MN to Duluth, entirely along the banks of Lake Surperior. I had an only OK race...was 7th in about 7:50 if I recall.

At any rate, they drug test the top 3 and 3 at random. I come across the line and am chosen as a ‘random’ ...and so have an immediate escort with a plastic cup for me to pee in. I get ushered into the local middle school adjacent to the finish, and the top three finishers are in there with their ‘escorts’ too.

Have you ever tried to pee after running balls out for 62 miles???? Ain’t easy. At any rate after we all shuffled about for 20 minutes or so and NONE of us could ‘go’, I sent my girlfriend out to buy a couple of suitcases of beer...as we all down the suds, like clockwork, nearly each and every one of us has to pee...all at the same time. We nearly had a fistfight to see who would get into the bathroom first.

Fun times...I guess ?

amkelley – Ha ha, I used the "watch on the oven" method of timing runs back in high school and college. Works fine! Also, your list of character traits for success (in running and in life) are spot on.

65 – For most of my post-college running, I was a “slave to the watch”, a 5k/10k guy. Now I'm marathon training, and letting go of the watch a bit. That being said, I might encourage Santa (aka my wife) to get me a used Garmin off of Swapa this year.

As for PEDs for the older set, geez why mess with your health like that? I do admit to using GU gels for racing and some long tempo runs, but that is it. When I lived in southern Mexico, I suspected that some locals in Oaxaca were using PEDs. There is a strong running/racing scene there. More likely a lot of age lying, as most local races feature prize money through age groups.

As for Next%, I picked up a fluorescent green pair last summer for my first marathon this fall. I paced cautiously and took off over the last six miles. My impression is that the shoes helped a lot, but left me with sore hips/thighs in new spots.

I did notice a slight return of achilles problems of a few years back, but then again it was my first marathon. My achilles problems began when I lived in the mountains of southern Mexico for a stretch.

Training this week (week 5 of a 4-month marathon buildup):

Mon. 13.3 miles. Warmup untimed for .2, Then out/back negative split over 13.1 miles 1:47:38.

Tue. 10.3 miles. Easy>medium over hills.

Wed. 6 miles easy.

Thurs. 8.5 easy>medium.

Friday, 6 miles easy.

Sat. Rest

Sun. DSE Club Sierra Point 10K, 44:34. Out/back split 22:27.

WEEK: 51.5 miles

I'd missed my Empire Runners Club post Thanksgiving 10K last week, so it was nice to do a 10K this week.

Felt good but managed to take a wrong turn twice on the way back! It was a new course to me, it could have been marked better but honestly, it was my fault. Happily I kept a positive attitude and still ran a negative split.

I view this race as my second hard workout of the week in my current marathon build. I'll have to check the results page later today to see how I placed.

Happy running/training!

MikeF wrote:

MOSTLY just extraordinarily grateful to be able to remain in forward motion.

Today made for 344 consecutive days, so, closing in on an entire year long ‘streak’...I can practically smell the barn.

MF

+1 Mike - you are soooo so close....

I turn 63 in a couple of days and I too feel sincerely lucky to just be out there and running -period. I have a bit of a streak going too and my target date is January 23rd of next month. I will save what it is until I can hopefully reach it.

Until then, Mike you just have three weeks to to go. Wishing you the best in your quest!

Just heading out the door for my second (easy) run of the day. Did a up-tempo (more of a progression) run this morning - a 5K at 21:30 7:08. 7:00, 6:52 and :30 for the last 160m push) Briefly slowed at a couple of lights at intersections but the route is dead accurate so it was a very decent workout in tights and light cold weather garb. I am still shooting to do between 15-20% at a faster pace and keep my mpw at 55 - at least until weather turns really "Michigan" nasty. I am putting together my goals for 2020.

There are so many things I want to do before my body tells me I can't

Wishing all a good week in your pursuits.

Good afternoon. We have had mild weather so far in December. One day of snow then temperatures in the upper 40s. I have opted out of indoor track this year. I feel I have more to gain with strength work, and I have progressed to where I can handle running four days a week. I thought about heading out for a fifth today, but I was struggling with getting a crooked Christmas tree in it’s stand. Still managed 46 Igy miles in 9 session.

Monday: AM- 2 miles easy; Igloi intervals- 2 x ( 6 x 150m good speed / 50m easy; 400m easy; 6 x 200m good swing / 100m easy) 400m between sets; mile easy; PM- 2.25 mile walk

Tuesday: 60:00 spin; core; 3 sets free weights

Wednesday: AM- 2 miles easy; 6 x 800m critical velocity @ 4:20 / 1:00 rest; mile easy; PM- 1,000 yards swim

Thursday: same as Tuesday

Friday: AM- 7 miles easy; PM- 3 mile walk

Saturday: 6 miles easy

Sunday: Off

Igy

The groins are at about 90%...not limiting my volume, but keeping me from opening up the throttle. Weather and my schedule forced some adjustments, but I was still able to get nearly 18 actual running miles (no fluff) this week. The unusual aspect was that it was all done in the last 5 days (4 days of running). I suspect my followers will think that unusual and they are right since that is a lot of volume for that short a time for me. Well, tomorrow will be an off day and Tuesday might also be depending on the weather. Anyway I survived to run another day. Life is good.

Regarding the Achilles discussion, I had calf issues for years which eventually led to Achilles problems. I finally saw a chiro who is knowledgeable in Graston and she performed nothing short of a miracle on me. If you have Achilles or calf issues and haven’t tried Graston, I suggest you give it a try.

Sun: 51’ CR; body wt ex

Mon: off

Tues: off

Wed: 53’ run (w/ 30” construction delay); body wt ex

Thu: 33’ CR

Fri: off

Sat: 52’ CR; body wt ex

Sun: 42’ CR; body wt ex

Best to most!

*Week 442*

Greetings, 50+ers! Whew, I'm late this week! But truly I don't have much to offer. The end of semester is grating on me as it's been in endless string of "get-it-done-before-the-end-of-the-semester" meetings and obligatory "holiday celebrations"...so still muddling along. There have been so much interesting posts, I'll need to delve better into the details when I get some time, but that isn't happening today. Great to see so much activity on the thread talking about important issues; keep it up!

Club XC in Pennsylvania is next week! We've got some youngsters going to compete in the open from here in the Bluegrass, but no masters as far as I know. Good Luck to All!

That's it from here. There's more to tell, but not worth listening to.

All the Best![/quote]

I was able to do 20 miles in four days plus some fluff (60:00 spin plus 1,000 yard swim).

Best to you.

?

Three mike walk, not 1,000 yard swim. Want to make sure my fluff is accurate.

?