50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

And as for the second part, I doubt that I'm special in any way, but motivated to keep going by two primary things. Just like to keep in shape/hate being out of shape, and an hour+ or so a day keeps me fit. And not having competed in high school, and having a tough time of it in college where I didn't come close to my potential seems to have implanted some inner demons, so while not all that talented I'm kind of driven.

65 wrote:

For those of us who have been running since our youth, how many of our competitors back then are still running? Probably hardly none. Good for us to keep running and even racing. There is something special about us that keeps us going after so many years. What is it that keeps up motivated?

Like many/ most, very very few of the guys that I trained and raced with back in the day, still do anything that even vaguely resembles ‘running’

Perhaps the question is why HAVEN’T the rest of our pals continued on. My theory on that is what I call the ‘embarrassment’ factor...it is embarrassing to run SO much slower than we used to. Hell, I was more than 9 minutes slower for 5K yesterday than my personal best set in 1980...and yesterday was totally ‘eyeballs out’, in racing shoes, having trained and rested for it...used up everything in the tank. And yet could only manage a tempo that is markedly slower than my 50 mile PR race pace... that is EMBARASSING ?

When I see most of my old buds out at a high school track meet or some such event,

They typically tell the hip, knee, back, work, kids story as to why they can no longer run...usually also say they ‘wish’ they still could’...their eyes usually glaze over when I suggest that they still CAN, if they do X and Y and Z. I go on to preach that the body is an amazingly adaptable machine...but you’ve got to want it...blah blah blah.

I’ll see them again a year later and they’ll not have made any further progress...because they never really tried.

Yet, they’ll go on to say things like, ‘I know that I can still run 5:30 for the mile or break 20 minutes for 5K if my knees weren’t shot’...and that’s when MY eyes glaze over.

My wife has taken to calling me Moe...not like Three Stooges ‘ Moe, instead, because I move like MOlasses...am slower than snot...and yes, it is embarrassing...but not as embarrassing as being fat, out of shape , winded going up stairs, and dressing to hide that unnecessary and undisciplined paunch.

My two ( tongue in cheek) cents...gotta’ run...literally.

Your pal,

MF

I wanna be like Izzy when I hit 80:

https://youtu.be/pcFSOnumgZA?t=19

I am old enough to remember watching first run Lloyd Bridges TV show Sea Hunt.

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnzCczGia3-0Q_HQ-jbIejgNrOz7Rg3cE

MikeF wrote:

Perhaps the question is why HAVEN’T the rest of our pals continued on. My theory on that is what I call the ‘embarrassment’ factor...it is embarrassing to run SO much slower than we used to. Hell, I was more than 9 minutes slower for 5K yesterday than my personal best set in 1980...and yesterday was totally ‘eyeballs out’, in racing shoes, having trained and rested for it...used up everything in the tank. And yet could only manage a tempo that is markedly slower than my 50 mile PR race pace... that is EMBARASSING ?

I think you've put your finger on a big part of it. I didn't start running seriously until I was nearly 30 and had a well established professional career (females weren't considered capable of running long distances when I was a kid!) so I don't have any "peer group of runners when young" to compare to. But many of the other women with whom I competed as a 40+ master have quit running, or at least quit racing, not because they can't do it any more but because they're embarrassed to be so much slower than they used to be.

They say that for professional athletes in team sports--like football quarterbacks--it's useful to have a short memory. This is usually in the context of not dwelling on a bad play from a few minutes ago, but it refers just as well to being able to forget how good you were decades ago!

I don't totally agree with the "embarrassment" factor - at least with the follow-up I've done with several guys that I trained with & raced against back in my late 30s/early 40s (late 50s now).

This was a popular masters running group that hosted a year round monthly race and mid-week summer track workouts. There were about 10 or so regulars in my age group - some pretty fast and very obsessed with their running. As of now, only myself and two others are still running - though I've transitioned to more of non-competitive fitness running lately because of injuries and some OA developing (all of my injuries over the years occurred in races).

The seven remaining guys that I either stay in touch with or follow them on their FB page are no longer running. Five out of the seven have transitioned to competitive cycling, one to competitively race walking and the last one has become a gym rat (this guy works out in the same gym that I do - so I talk with him regularly). All seven have had quite a few injuries with some having more serious pathologies such as post-traumatic OA with three needed joint replacements (the RW, one cyclist & the gym rat).

I think each situation can be different but chronic injuries and more serious pathologies will quickly suppress the motivation to train with most everyone. The key to partake in a high-impact sport like running at an older age is to be able to train consistently & regularly without injury. If one is injured a lot of the time, you can't run and you end up frustrated doing less enjoyable activities like walking & cycling. I think a lot of guys (and gals) in those situations just say "screw it" and take up a non-weightbearing activity or one that has less impact such as RW.

And I find myself in the same boat with some of my old running friends - deciding if I need to make the transition to something more friendly than running. To use Andrew Luck's quote when he announced his early retirement from the Indianapolis Colts this year, I find myself in a vicious cycle of "injury, pain & rehab." This gets old after awhile because some of us can't fight the deterioration from decades of hard training & racing like some others can. And the guys (and gals) who can continue to train at a high level into their older age with little or no injury, then more power to you - keep the good work up.

Good article about sports injuries leading to OA:

“The key to partake in a high-impact sport like running at an older age is to be able to train consistently & regularly without injury. If one is injured a lot of the time, you can't run and you end up frustrated doing less enjoyable activities like walking & cycling. I think a lot of guys (and gals) in those situations just say "screw it" and take up a non-weightbearing activity or one that has less impact such as RW.”

I tend to see this frequently. Another phenomenon of the motivated endurance athlete is the occurrence of A-Fib with aging. A couple of our better masters in our town have been knocked out of the competitive ranks with this condition.

Do you have a link to substantiate the endurance athlete and a-fib connection? I’ve never heard of that. In fact, I would have thought there would be a negative correlation.

Well I googled it thanks beckee now I am an expert;) RUSmart no but I do know how to google

Since I am not doing intense training I cherry picked this tid bit:

say faster than 10mph is vigorous so after 20k of hard stuff the you shaped curve gets you unless like me you are short and skinny!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4739323/

Conclusion

A history of ≥2000 h of vigorous endurance training, tall stature, abdominal obesity, and OSA are frequently encountered as risk factors in patients with Ln-AF. Fewer than 2000 total hours of high-intensity endurance training associates with reduced Ln-AF risk.

I added B2 (K4+K7) anyone with abnormal calcium deposits might want to do some homework

just lurking the last few weeks as i’ve been consumed with grading, the end of the h.s. x-c season, and, of all things, running. now on thanksgiving break i’ll make up for it with this lengthy post--read or don’t read at your leisure...

i managed 60+ miles/week all of november, with 70+ the last two weeks--lots of double days and some pretty decent weekly long runs of 10-14 miles. after my poor showing at the 5k x-c race in october, i figured i can whine about my lack of fitness post-injury, or i can at least try doing something about it. i still feel like i’ll run out of time before clubs in two weeks to achieve anything close to peak fitness, but at least i can go to the race with the satisfaction that i’ve made the most of my time (within the parameters of still having a job/life) over the last 6 weeks or so. in the midst of these 70-mile weeks, i managed some decent “tracing” efforts (a non-quantifiable mix of training and race efforts): a 33:59 “10k” effort (the course was probably about a minute short at my pace, closer to a 5:40 effort pacewise) in early november, and a 16:57 5k turkey trot yesterday in the pouring rain. they ended up starting the race around 7 minutes early because of the rain and socal-cold temps (around 45 degrees), so by the time i got to the start most everyone was gone. the volunteers were there just telling people to make sure runners starting went over the timing mats so we’d get a chip-time at least. my effort was essentially a solo run with no regard for tangents as i had to run outside of the jog strollers, walkers, and leashed dogs over much of the first mile, even coming to almost a complete stop as younger kids were darting all over the course. i’d imagine i was closer to a 5:20 pace effort than the stated 5:27…

regarding the earlier discussion on poorly managed/measured road races: i never worry too much about it, even though i have that right given the price of some of these events. here in socal where you can find close to a dozen road races every weekend, i suppose the odds are that most will be mis-managed to some degree. i don’t even worry about all my garmined-teammates who will update the distances anyway--i knew my 10k time was about a minute faster than my effort before my teammate (who finished 10 seconds behind me) confirmed it. but i probably have a better sense of pace/effort than most, and i’m generally pretty bad at self-delusion (at least with running)...

regarding motivation: a support system for me has been essential (from family, to teammates, to even small-niche message board threads). recently, the prospect of a pete magill comeback (now aborted) motivated me to crosstrain with more rigor than ever this summer while hurt, as we thought the two of us could possibly help our 40s team at clubs. the fact that my kids were all runners in high school, and two running in college, kept me motivated. and the fact that my wife runs helps too. i’m not sure i agree with track-historian-extraordinaire MF with the embarrassment factor, other than it may factor into how hard you train (sometimes i broach this question when i’m working my ass off for times that used to be my easy paces) given the diminished reward. i assume there’d be a litany of reasons of which combinations of some or all apply to those of our brethren no longer toeing the line, and i won’t risk judgment since they could just as easily charge us with being “hanger-on-syndromers” foolishly and futilely trying to relive our glory days.

to some degree, i’d have to plead guilty as charged. but it’s not for the reasons “they” may think; instead, it’s for reasons i assume most of us on this thread already know, and why we come back here for reminders lest we forget. the paths of least resistance in any field are tempting, and it becomes easy to forget the risk-reward reciprocation from the work we put in. when the consequences of doing nothing (or very little) are minimal, and, being stretched out over time, not always explicit, and you’re surrounded by a majority who is doing essentially the same, doing nothing (or very little) becomes almost automatic. for myself, i’m not seeking the “glory days” that age group victories can never duplicate anyway; i’m simply reveling in the long-term endorphins that come with goal-setting and the process of achieving said goals, and i’m reveling in the daily endorphins produced with daily activity. that almost indefinable feeling we got in our youth--yeah, our glory days--from not only winning a race or just finishing a hard workout, we get to feel weekly, and sometimes for me even daily. who wouldn’t want to feel that? in fact, if you still have the ability to “feel that,” it almost seems criminal to me to not get out the door, or as pre would call it, “wasting the gift”...

hope to see some of you at clubs and in san diego in january, and as always,

carpe crepusculum,

cush

Oops meant K2(m4+m7) not B2(m4+m7) vitamin K2 activates calcium binding actions of 2 proteins which help store calcium in bone and remove calcium from arteries and other places it calcium does not belong maybe even tendons;)

Beckee wrote:

Do you have a link to substantiate the endurance athlete and a-fib connection? I’ve never heard of that. In fact, I would have thought there would be a negative correlation.

Another:

Earl vs Ed ties up all the loose ends afib how hard to train when you are old which is better xtrn hiit vs lsd in the end my choice is both a little hiit , some lsd , rowing, weights , sauna, diet, supplements legal ones that is and the most important thing of all is Joie de vivre

One of my favorites:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/fitness/running/running-ed-whitlock-and-earl-fee-compared/article34897068/

To paraphrase Ed “running is not the perfect exercise, but I feel I am better off doing it than not.” It is probably not time well spent worrying about something that may never happen. As in most aspects of life following a reasonable path is just what it is. Many would not consider it reasonable to rise at 5:30 am to race a 5k on Thanksgiving, while others would feel the same about consuming 4,000 calories at one sitting.

KPdx wrote:

Any Thankful Turkey Trotters planned for this week? KP

Congrats on great XC race KPdx!

Just got home from our 53 hour Thanksgiving road-trip from Michigan to Kentucky. Very happy to be out of the car. The drive down on Wednesday in the high winds and multiple slowdowns due to high traffic volumes and accidents was draining, both mentally and physically.

Turkey Trot Race report;

We combined a Thanksgiving Day visit and dinner with my spouse's 90 year old mother with a race in Lexington; The Bluegrass Runner's 36th Thoroughbred 5K. A decent sized race with over 2,800 entrants (although as we all know that includes kids, as well as runners/walkers some dressed as Turkeys and Reindeer - lol!).

A super well organized race with tons of competent volunteers who were on the ball with everything from parking directions, course marshaling packet and award pick-up, etc. etc. etc.!

This was my last race as a 62 year old. Weather was 37-38 degrees and overcast. It was well laid out course with a few inclines (little hills). Race went reasonably well. I am seldom pleased with my times, but managed 6:34 per mile (my old marathon race pace-ugh!), but 00:50 faster than in 2016 on the same course. 48th overall – and my age-graded result just nipped the true overall winner's time of 16:13. Won the Senior Grandmasters division (would have also won the 50-59 Grandmasters) and would have placed 4th in the 40-49 Masters division. My wife tells me that was more than a respectful finish, but I just feel I can run still faster. I recovered too quickly after the race, but who knows? BTW my wife, who is battling a bum knee, took a few minutes off her last 5k time so it was a basically a good day all around.

Fun side note: I was able to briefly say hello to the creator of this thread lucKY2b who was volunteering at this race. Sorry we missed you at packet pickup on Wednesday night, but I was just bushed from driving, needed to eat, and just lay down somewhere.

Also it is great to read some thoughtful, positive and mature exchanges on this thread. Looking through the main forum, it appear to be the exception rather the the rule.

I wonder if 76-year-old endurance running legend Dag Aabye has any A-Fib or anything like that going on? Same identical build as Whitlock and one of those ultramarathon endurance monsters. Unbelievable life style - no smartphone, computer, television or anything. Totally lives off the grid. If I go a day without my smartphone, I literally go bonkers. Lol.

https://www.adventure-journal.com/2018/03/dag-aabye-runs-hes-really-hard-catch/

A lot of unclarity there, Igy. I'll take my joie de vivre and keep pushing toward 2000 hours ...

Coyote Montane wrote:

And as for the second part, I doubt that I'm special in any way, but motivated to keep going by two primary things. Just like to keep in shape/hate being out of shape, and an hour+ or so a day keeps me fit. And not having competed in high school, and having a tough time of it in college where I didn't come close to my potential seems to have implanted some inner demons, so while not all that talented I'm kind of driven.

Vigorous headnod. I did do high school XC, but just barely. In three months I went from walk-on to third on the team that took second at state. A late-entry team to the TAC national XC race in Ohio six weeks later, in which we finished I think 103rd out of 110 teams, and a discouraging letter from a coach at the college I would be attending, snuffed out my hopes of continuing to compete. It was only 30+ years later that I saw my potential left at the starting line.

Hey, are you going to healthy in time for San Diego? I looked at the results from 2011, the last time this race was held at Mission Bay, and those times were lightning fast. I've been focusing more on running off effort and that would serve me well here, because I have no clue what pace to set.

Good to know several of you are planning to attend. Except for CM, I only know people's noms de guerre so we'll have to have a get-acquainted on Friday.

I am a runner for 47 years, ~180K miles total lifetime. Suffered A-fib with six major cardioversions (heart restart) ages 44-53. Doctor said to "get used to it, we can't treat it". After trying various lifestyle adjustments that didn't work such as avoiding interval work and stopping caffeine, I adopted a paleo then a keto diet. I have now been symptom-free for a decade, and still run long and train hard. I am, so far, the only person I have heard of to accomplish this. I have encountered hints in the literature around metabolic syndrome and in particular a connection with omega-6 fatty acids that suggest a mechanistic link. All I know is that it is extremely liberating to be free of a-fib specifically and the diseases of chronic inflammation in general.