50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Beckee wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

On a serious note, when I was coaching athletes of varying speeds the Williams Pace Calculator was invaluable. University of Oregon runner Bob Williams developed this slide rule tool; evidently still sold.

https://www.coachbobwilliams.com/product/williams-pace-calculator/

This may have had value before the invention of the pocket calculator, but less so now. With the technology we have today, it is much more pragmatic to just pop a few numbers into a spreadsheet and get individualized paces for each team member.

Exactly! Instead of telling everyone to run their 400s at 40 sec faster than 5k pace for example, give everyone a specific time based on their fitness level and the goal(s) of the workout.

At a coaching seminar I was once asked what I believed to be the most important tool for a running coach. I think the expected answer was “stopwatch”, but I said “spreadsheet”. And I said that for exactly the reasons mentioned above.

Let’s get away from these lazy calculations and do the right thing by our athletes. Each is an experiment of one and should be treated as such.

Hi all — I enjoyed catching up with everyone’s news, although “enjoyed” isn’t the right word w/r/t OF’s and CM’s breakdowns, sorry to hear of those. My online social life has vanished since I added a marketing course to my current workload.

Sunday I ran the Billy Mills 10K and it was great — Billy looks fantastic, his story still inspires, and getting prizes from him is ... uplifting, I think that’s the word for it.

So, it was XC, did I mention that? I had no idea when I signed up that I’d need spikes. My first XC race in 37 years, on the Haskell campus, the Billy Mills Trail, just off Mills Drive on your way to Billy Mills Middle School. Beautiful course, in primo shape because of indie nationals the day before. Someone did one of these in the 90s and mentioned watching Running Brave — so did we, while waiting for the slowpokes to finish. Ah, Robby Benson ....

I ran in 39:42 but won the masters category based on age-grading. I’ve never had my time age-graded before. It adjusted to 33:27 which would have won the race by 11 seconds, ha, if I wasn’t 54. Anyway, the larger takeaway is that my increased mileage this fall really paid off, I was able to stay at my threshold basically the whole race without a struggle.

Afterward, for the first time the bride asked me “so can we travel and do races??” Toronto, here we come!

Allen1959 wrote:

Dunno about that 5K. A foot of snow is forecasted for tonight, a deep freeze rest of the week. Half the course is on the towpath, so won't be plowed.

Too risky to race in those conditions, although back in my 40s, I raced the same course on snow and ice, finishing second OA and beating guys way faster than me: I was the only one wearing XC spikes. Ha! Too fragile for that now.

I suppose I'd have to agree. I ran outdoors all winter long for ten and a half Rochester winters, but I rarely raced in the winter when the footing was bad. Even when I was young and fast I was clumsy and I feared crashing on slippery surfaces. It might make sense to skip the 5K if the conditions are bad.

KCgeezer, what a great result at the Billy Mills! Your hard training is really paying off.

I too took back up XC a couple in 2017 when I turned 60. I ran three XC races this fall all with spikes. One was actually an open college race where the average age of the runners was about 20. Pretty crazy trying to race against kids a 1/3 of your age-haha! The last one was this past weekend at the state USATF master's, which happens to be held just 20 miles from home.

31 degrees and a loop and half rolling course with a rutted trail leaf and light snow covered section (2x). Fortunately, it was held in conjunction with the Open section so there were some post collegiate women runners ahead of me to key off of. Otherwise, it would have been a basically a solo time trial. Up side,defended my 60+ (although meaningless) title from the last couple of years. More importantly, I was able to carve off 00:42 from my time last year.

Next up, traveling with the supportive spouse to Lexington Kentucky for Thanksgiving. We are running a pretty big Turkey Trot with 2,750 finishers last year and 327 in just the 60+ division. Hopefully, I can take a minute plus off my time there from my last race there in 2016 (that was my last race as a 59 y/o) .

My training has been decent - completed my 7th consecutive 55 mile week on Sunday and 38 weeks 50+. Speed work and hard miles have accounted for 15 -17% range of the overall mileage.

We received 10" of snow over the last couple of days - the roads and sidewalks are still a mess and the temps are in the teens. So after typing this, I am off to check out the nearby college indoor track to see if I can do a few 800 repeats. If it is in use, it will be another 'ice dance' day.

Hope all are having a good week and it is warm where you are....

Both of my knee joints have been a bit sore the day after running WAG medial meniscus or mcl . No pain when running but I just had to come up with a plan that would give my knees a break and let me experiment. So.....

I am starting over rebooting square zero. Last time around I walked for 6 months then ran 2 times a week balls out for10 months and it worked pretty well. So that is the plan;)

Main point of post is also an example of new treatment of OA that is actually are based upon MOA

https://youtu.be/u27R-AepFYA?t=193

M: off.

T-W: 7 miles.

R: 9 miles (5.6mph to 7.7 mph on treadmill.)

F-SA: 7 miles.

SU: 16.7 miles. (9:00 for the first miles and 7:54 for the last mile.)

16.7 is the longest I have run since July of 2018. Four more weeks to go.

Hope all y’all involved in cross country are enjoying wrapping up your season of coaching and/or racing yourself. I’m feeling lucky to be healthy enough to take part in somewhat of an XC (basework) season to benefit on the indoor & outdoor tracks in 2020.

Heading back to Idaho with 50 kids from our high school team for their last XC race. We have one in the big dog race. She’s won the NXR B race 2 years in a row. And is chomping at the bit for a redemption race after her “so-so” 15th at State last weekend.

The community race has five coaches from our team. Should be fun.

Not Done Just Yet wrote:

I too took back up XC a couple in 2017 when I turned 60. I ran three XC races this fall all with spikes. One was actually an open college race where the average age of the runners was about 20. Pretty crazy trying to race against kids a 1/3 of your age-haha! The last one was this past weekend at the state USATF master's, which happens to be held just 20 miles from home.

Same story here. Surrounded by kids and thank God, otherwise it would have pretty lonely out there. They say xc is a great equalizer because it brings out runners of all distances from mile to marathon. But I think I’d need to go to a national event to get that.

Speaking of which is usatf’s calendar the most complete or is there some other master list of things I can enter in 2020 that are highly competitive?

I have run competitively since 1965, run in two Olympic Trials, coached college athletes for nineteen years (4 NJCAA titles, 6 Division I Conference Titles), and coached a USATF Masters individual champion last year. I see nothing the least bit wrong with either of the posts you reference.

So there.

?

Neither do I.

Perhaps "Coach X" is a tad bit too imperious. ?

I think we'll know more in the next month or so. They talked about the race schedule some at Tulsa last month. Here are the known masters races for 2020 (including Club XC)

December - Club XC, Bethlehem, PA

January - USA Nationals XC 8K, San Diego

April - 10K, Dedham, MA

July - you can choose 1 race at World Masters in Toronto as a USATF championship for points

August - 1 mile Flint, MI

December - 2021 Season, but Club XC in San Francisco

Pending (bids are in and are being considered) - 5K road and 1/2 marathon in the fall. Also a fall 5K XC, they weren't clear on whether they were going back to San Diego for that or had another site in mind.

He actually makes a good point. Training is not “one size fits all”. We should be individualizing training rather than using a cookie cutter approach.

^Is that so? Well duh!

Yeah...I think the definitions in the Furman program could be improved upon. Instead of basing everything on 5K race pace...they could base it on the best pace you could hold for 20 minutes...or 15 minutes...or whatever they figure it to be. Either that or base it on 5K race pace and then define the suggested interval pace relative to the 5K pace in percentage terms...rather than seconds per mile. For example you could define something as 10% faster than 5K pace...rather than saying...let's say...30 secs a mile faster than 5K pace. But since calculating percentages is a bit difficult...the first alternative might be better.

Igy...in describing your extremely impressive background...you may have inadvertently explained the reason for difference opinions here. You were a superior runner...and you have coached superior runners...so you probably can relate this program to fast runners. But I'm not sure how many 30 min 5K runners you've coached. Maybe you have. But I get the impression you have mostly deal with very fast people. If I'm wrong...sorry.

If you've coached a 30 min 5K runner...you know that defining training paces based on the 30 min 5K time is nothing like defining training paces based on a 15 min 5K time...or whatever.

Not sure I'm making sense. I guess I'm just saying that while the above pacing guidelines make sense for some, they are probably not ideal for many of the average population.

PTF,

Fair enough, but the purpose of the initial post was to illustrate a concept that is exactly what a 30 minute 5k runner should consider. That is cross training in place of easy running. The schedules serves as an illustration and of course should be modified for the individual. The attempt is a sample rather than dogmatic.

Igy

Checking in...long time.

Hit some benchmarks and 'mile'stones recently...111,111 miles (was trying to do so on 11/11, but was ahead of schedule by 2 weeks)...closing in on 1200 for year to date...dumbo streak is at 322 days...hope to get through 2019 without a miss...just trying to stay amused and be in maintenance mode till next age group.

Hit the track for a mini session this morning...first 'speed' effort in a couple of months...nothing earth shattering...did finish up with a 87.23 for an ancient geezer 400.

Hoping to compete at Toronto Worlds in July...entries open later this month...also note that we'll host two master's miles here in San Francisco in April...two weeks apart...can provide more details should one have any interest.

Hoping everyone here is swell...AKA relatively injury free...as always, remember to 'train don't strain'...see you all a little further on down the road.

your pal,

MF

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

^Is that so? Well duh!

Yes.

*Week 439*

Greetings, 50+are! Gonna be brief today, as I'm typing on the tablet, which I hate, plus I'm still in semi-hibernation mode (in re: training). A couple good long walks and a 5 mile 50/50 run/walk session is all I've done.

Nice race, KCgeezer! Props MikeF, on reaching another milestone! And Not Done Just Yet, you're coming around rather nicely! Hit me up when you get to Lexington, maybe we can meet up at a microbrewery for a pint (actually, packet pick-up IS at my friend's microbrewery, and I'll be working there.)

As for Furman, I view any of these training plans as outlines, not as something that needs to be followed rigorously: vary paces, vary distances, vary terrain, slowly increase mileage, but back off from time to time, do regular cross-training/mobility exercises and watch your diet...is there really any more to it than that? But a pace guideline is always helpful.

Ok, I'm out. Have a great week everyone!

All the Best!

To lucKY2b -

re: "And Not Done Just Yet, you're coming around rather nicely! Hit me up when you get to Lexington, maybe we can meet up at a microbrewery for a pint (actually, packet pick-up IS at my friend's microbrewery, and I'll be working there.)"

Yes, let's do this. It might not be a pint for me (I am a lightweight - lol), but definitely want to meet you at the Pivot on Wednesday afternoon. Maybe stick a note on my bib, so I who to ask for?? My last name is Free*** should be the only 62 year old with a last name that starts like that.

If we leave on time from Michigan should be there between 4-5:30. Always a challenge as I wonderful wife and I always seem to be on different time zones.

I have a really good week of training going and hope I can parlay these last few into a 60+ PBR for a road 5K down there. Had a really good race in August this year (broke the 80% age grade level for the first time in 20 years), so it won't be an easy task. Plus you have that little hill at 2 1/2 miles on that course that tests the legs.

Hope everyone can can out a do a run (or at least enjoy the outside) today....