closing in on 54
closing in on 54
old gesser2 wrote:
Tough weeks training
65 miles
17M long run at 6:15 pace
16 x 40 sec hill workout
6 x mile at 5:12 with 90 sec rest
pn to the next one
Like Racerdb I'm curious about that 6 X 5:12. I recognize that workout and it equals about 32 flat 10K (I went 32:12 doing it...a LONG time ago). Only a few 50X'ers can do that so I'm guessing Sean Wade prankin on us :-)
EPO & Vapor Fly 40%
Mopac wrote:
You would've run your last 5km on Wednesday in under 25. I think you will probably run mid 22s to low 23s.
If you got the bike out for an hour or so 4 times a week and run your progression run and one easier longer run I reckon you would run some solid 5ks.
I hope you're right. My fitness continues to wane, it's been nearly two weeks now since I've run sub-8 pace in training.
Last night, 8:42 pace for five miles, race effort start to finish. It does take a while to warm up -- 22:26 out, 20:59 back. The knee pain also generally improves from "excruciating" to "bearable" after a couple miles.
As I recall, we are the same age with near identical PRs. But while I am essentially sidelined, you're still at it -- congrats on the 4 Peaks result! If I had maintained your "all-around fitness" approach, maybe I'd still be in the game, too.
At 56-57, I was running only twice a week, with biking and kayaking. My motivation was a low-key kayak-bike-run triathlon. No injuries! I added a third run and ran a 3:25 marathon seven weeks later. Still no injuries!
Then I got greedy, added more running days, workouts, mileage ... but largely neglected cross training and overall fitness. I raced well, but suffered weeks and months of injured downtime.
Igy: A few years ago, I could have followed that 5K plan. No way, now! Actually, it's quite similar to what I was doing, except my repeats were always 800m or longer, and no faster than 3000m race pace.
amkelley: Thanks for the kind words. I hope you can rest up, recover and take advantage of your strength and fitness in a half marathon soon!
AMKelly- I feel your pain. At 53 with PRs of 48,1:49 , 50 plus mpw with 2 20s and 3 18s, I thought I was ready to break 4 at NYC. Went out on pace but it felt harder than it should have and my quads blew up at 30k. Went through 1/2 at 2:01:25, hobbled home in 4:42.
Not sure what went wrong but my HR was higher than it should have been the first 10 miles and I definitely wasn’t ready for the hills.
I was bummed at first but then remembered what a decent training block I had over the past 4 months which I won’t lose and I’ve let it go.
My plan is to work on my base this spring and get up to 60 mpw and then another 26.2 in the fall, but no further big city marathons as I think the logistics of travel, the start, the crowds may have had something to do with my poor result.
Cheers and realize you are not alone!
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
For allen1959:
https://t3triteam.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/furman-1st-5k-program.pdf
Was this part of the book “Training for Dummies”? Talk about dumbing it down.
That is the beauty of the program. The key is to stick with the paces and do the cross training on non-running days. I believe this type of schedule is especially appropriate for those with chronic injury episodes and 60s or 70s athletes.
I was referring primarily to the race pace calculation. That’s not exactly BC calculus.
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
That is the beauty of the program. The key is to stick with the paces and do the cross training on non-running days. I believe this type of schedule is especially appropriate for those with chronic injury episodes and 60s or 70s athletes.
The program is solid. Maybe old guy was referencing the verbose presentation. Seemed like, to distill the actual paces/program, I had to wade through a lot of words and hoops (sorry for the mixed metaphors!)
All, no doubt, meant to simplify the concepts/calculations for a neophyte, but actually adding to the complexity.
I was initially confused by the Third Workout in a two-workout program. I guess the third is the "long run," but with specified paces.
For me, long runs have been mostly about covering the distance, no pace targets at all. But that may have been one of my weaknesses over the decades.
oId guy wrote:
I was referring primarily to the race pace calculation. That’s not exactly BC calculus.
Ha! I was typing while you were posting.
oId guy wrote:
I was referring primarily to the race pace calculation. That’s not exactly BC calculus.
Yes it is kind of confusing. I went thru the sheet yesterday and found that true. Also, interesting that the paces are a tad faster than what Daniels would recommend. But you are running only three days a week. My approach to the long run is also just get in the miles.
The genesis of the original post was mopac’s comment about biking, running and one’s ability to still race well. That brought up the FIRST Program and I remember seeing this sheet a number of years ago, and thought it worthy to post.
Scubacane wrote:
AMKelly- I feel your pain. At 53 with PRs of 48,1:49 , 50 plus mpw with 2 20s and 3 18s, I thought I was ready to break 4 at NYC. Went out on pace but it felt harder than it should have and my quads blew up at 30k. Went through 1/2 at 2:01:25, hobbled home in 4:42.
Not sure what went wrong but my HR was higher than it should have been the first 10 miles and I definitely wasn’t ready for the hills.
I was bummed at first but then remembered what a decent training block I had over the past 4 months which I won’t lose and I’ve let it go.
My plan is to work on my base this spring and get up to 60 mpw and then another 26.2 in the fall, but no further big city marathons as I think the logistics of travel, the start, the crowds may have had something to do with my poor result.
Cheers and realize you are not alone!
For what it's worth, my sole attempt to run NYC was at age 31 when I was improving quickly and was probably in about 3:20 shape. I also went into massive quad cramps shortly before 30k and had to walk for a few miles, then started tentatively jogging and gradually sped up. By the time I hit the finish I felt like a champion as I was back on 3:20 pace flying past 4-hour marathoners. I finished in 3:59 and swore off big-city marathons.
Where I now live, I have two annual marathons (November and March) that I can easily run without an overnight hotel stay (less than 75 minute drive). There are a number of other small to medium-sized marathons that are 2-3 hours away and would probably require an overnight hotel but would otherwise be logistically easy. You can bet that if I attempt another marathon it will be one of these and not some big city mob scene. There are too many other things that can go wrong in a marathon.
Best of luck on your attempt next fall!
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
oId guy wrote:
I was referring primarily to the race pace calculation. That’s not exactly BC calculus.
Yes it is kind of confusing.
It shouldn’t be for anyone with at least half a brain. Converting a 5k time to a minutes-per-mile pace is child’s play.
Fun jumping into the JV race yesterday with the high school team I coach. We ran a pre NXR workout "Grant Park Harriers Mile" on our track yesterday. Pleased with my 5:27.02 performance.
On to State Champs now with our rock star Junior AQ who should make the podium tomorrow.
Old D3 runner wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Yes it is kind of confusing.
It shouldn’t be for anyone with at least half a brain. Converting a 5k time to a minutes-per-mile pace is child’s play.
I am an old Division I guy, they recruited us for speed not brains. Just to let ya know. ?
On a serious note, when I was coaching athletes of varying speeds the Williams Pace Calculator was invaluable. University of Oregon runner Bob Williams developed this slide rule tool; evidently still sold.
https://www.coachbobwilliams.com/product/williams-pace-calculator/
Good Evening,
I thought I would get things started early this week. Sunday I am headed to Illinois to see my last surviving aunt and uncle the first of the week. Then off to Stillwater, Oklahoma for a cross country team reunion (NCAA 1970 14th, 1972 7th, and 1973 5th). I ran on 1970-1972 Oklahoma State University teams. The home cross country course was just north of campus. When I ran the surface was close cropped prairie grass with a gully we crisscrossed a couple of times. In recent years wood chips were added to the gully creating a slow surface. OSU hosted the Cowboy Jamboree, the home meet invitational, for over 75 years including WWII, and most if not all these years on this course. As well as several Big Eight Championship Meets. In 2019 one of the NCAA Regionals is on the home course (this coming Friday) with the NCAA Championship Meet next year. In preparation for the NCAA Championships the 2018-2019 Jamboree Meets were cancelled to revamp the course. The school invested $2 Million into the new course, and here is a sneak preview.
http://orange.okstate.com/ccregional/
Looks great.
My week:
Monday: AM- 4.75 miles easy in foothills; PM- 3 mile walk
Tuesday: 60:00 spin; core; weights
Wednesday: AM: 2 miles easy; 8 x 600m critical velocity @ 3:05 average / 1:00 rest; mile easy; 3 mike walk
Thursday: same as Tuesday
Friday: 4 miles easy/walk
Saturday: 5 easy miles in foothills
Igy
Allen1959 wrote:
I hope you're right. My fitness continues to wane, it's been nearly two weeks now since I've run sub-8 pace in training.
Last night, 8:42 pace for five miles, race effort start to finish. It does take a while to warm up -- 22:26 out, 20:59 back. The knee pain also generally improves from "excruciating" to "bearable" after a couple miles.
As I recall, we are the same age with near identical PRs. But while I am essentially sidelined, you're still at it -- congrats on the 4 Peaks result! If I had maintained your "all-around fitness" approach, maybe I'd still be in the game, too.
At 56-57, I was running only twice a week, with biking and kayaking. My motivation was a low-key kayak-bike-run triathlon. No injuries! I added a third run and ran a 3:25 marathon seven weeks later. Still no injuries!
Then I got greedy, added more running days, workouts, mileage ... but largely neglected cross training and overall fitness. I raced well, but suffered weeks and months of injured downtime.
Agree so focus on rehab with cross training that helps with the healing process. Treat your body like you treat a restoration project then get excited about the healing process/progress go all in that is my advice.
KP nice mile
Igy enjoy the trip and reunion
Health
Fasting / morning blood glucose down to about 90 many in the 80s. This is from over 100 sometimes 110. Amazing cause my morning blood glucose has been over 100 for 20 years! Ketones are pretty high as well typically over 2.0. Systolic Blood pressure has dropped back to below 120 as low as 110. Still feel a bit of weakness as I adapt to keto but my endurance is better. Cognitive is subjective but seems my ability to recall names places events has improved also my problem solving ability seems better ezr to follow metabolic pathway flow charts and a real key is when listening to a fairly complex subject / lecture I can once again stay a step ahead like my mind is more engaged as in my youth.
Exercise
Run just a few times a week no structure
HIIT Bike and Rower a few times a week
Walk 4 to 6 miles a day several short walks
Sauna yes I consider sauna a workout 4 or 5 times a week 30 minutes each time
Row on my C2 easy 20 minutes a day
Lifting weights mainly bench pressing 2 times a week
Supplements
Added more Omega 3s Krill and Cod
nad+ supplements
been taking niacinamide and a b complex for some time but had some concerns as some research indicates down reg of SIRT1s of course the supp ind wants to sell expensive versions NMN and NR but after more research I am sticking with what I am doing.
Enjoyed this one:
https://neurohacker.com/how-is-nad-made-salvage-pathway#commentsGhost of Igloi wrote:
On a serious note, when I was coaching athletes of varying speeds the Williams Pace Calculator was invaluable. University of Oregon runner Bob Williams developed this slide rule tool; evidently still sold.
https://www.coachbobwilliams.com/product/williams-pace-calculator/
This may have had value before the invention of the pocket calculator, but less so now. With the technology we have today, it is much more pragmatic to just pop a few numbers into a spreadsheet and get individualized paces for each team member.