Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Creating a caloric deficit. Max VO2 formula is driven in part by body weight.
I agree that reducing fat means reducing calories, but why would you want less energy?
Also, how does body weight figure into VO2max?
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Creating a caloric deficit. Max VO2 formula is driven in part by body weight.
I agree that reducing fat means reducing calories, but why would you want less energy?
Also, how does body weight figure into VO2max?
I think I addressed the energy issue, empty calories versus beneficial calories.
Vo2 Max = maximum milliliters of oxygen consumed in 1 minute/body weight in kilograms
Jimmy Gilbert wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Creating a caloric deficit. Max VO2 formula is driven in part by body weight.
I agree that reducing fat means reducing calories, but why would you want less energy?
Also, how does body weight figure into VO2max?
I don't think you necessarily get less energy with reducing calories. Most older folks like me experience a dramatic decline in metabolism as we age (of course there will be some outliers who say their metabolism has never slowed down). I've had to drop my calories considerably over the years just to maintain my weight and not gain any.
I eat a high quality organic balanced diet - I use to eat like a pig when I was in my thirties and never gained weight as long as I kept up my mileage. Now at 60, I can't train like I used to because of chronic injuries (imagine that - a 60 yrs old runner with injuries. Lol), and I tend to gain weight just looking at food. ?.
For energy, I take a green tea/caffeine pill before almost every workout (plus my regular morning Joe). Without my supplements and my MP3 pumped with 1980s heavy metal (go Metallica!), I wouldn't be able to get out of the door to run. A high-impact activity like running doesn't always feel as good as it did when I was a younger buck and you feel like Superman -- the wear and tear takes it toll over the decades.
Just an old beat up runner wrote:
Also, how does body weight figure into VO2max?
I don't think you necessarily get less energy with reducing calories. Most older folks like me experience a dramatic decline in metabolism as we age (of course there will be some outliers who say their metabolism has never slowed down). I've had to drop my calories considerably over the years just to maintain my weight and not gain any.
I eat a high quality organic balanced diet - I use to eat like a pig when I was in my thirties and never gained weight as long as I kept up my mileage. Now at 60, I can't train like I used to because of chronic injuries (imagine that - a 60 yrs old runner with injuries. Lol), and I tend to gain weight just looking at food. ?.
For energy, I take a green tea/caffeine pill before almost every workout (plus my regular morning Joe). Without my supplements and my MP3 pumped with 1980s heavy metal (go Metallica!), I wouldn't be able to get out of the door to run. A high-impact activity like running doesn't always feel as good as it did when I was a younger buck and you feel like Superman -- the wear and tear takes it toll over the decades.[/quote]
Skinny Old People SOPs used to be common. What happened? Soft living and Too much food might explain some of this fatness but not all of it.
180 Pounds May of 2016 a few months before turning 60.
127 Pounds Oct of 2019 a few months after turning 63.
Did I starve myself? Am I running a zillion miles a week. Am I bulimic? No No and No.
I eat more calories now at age 63 than I ever have. Calories obviously count but hormones are just as important when it comes to metabolism. Metabolism is what your body does with the calories.
Ben Bikman interview is 65 minutes. His ideas just might change your life . They changed mine.
https://youtu.be/uIVwrlqcyUYOops must of missed an end quote.
In an nutshell:
Over half of the people over 60 are insulin resistant.
Here are 2 complimentary ways to check yourself:
1. Blood glucose checks with a simple cheap meter
2. Ketone level checks also with a simple meter or urine strips.
If your ketones are at least at .3 your insulin levels are low which is a good thing!
Early diagnosis of insulin resistance is critical:
https://www.bloodsugar101.com/organ-damage-and-blood-sugar-level
Hanging around and checking in, but not much to report here. Congrats to all that could pin on a number and show their stuff. My lower back is still stiff/tight/sore, so still doing walk/runs, and not every day, either. Have not run more than one mile non-stop, but mostly 1/4 to 3/4 miles at a time with walking in between. I keep telling myself that I am still doing intervals! Ha!
I have been averaging about 32 miles/week, walks and runs combined, so my weight is still just under 150. Lost a bit of muscle this last week b/c of only getting in one weight workout (I need two weekly faithfully to maintain my pecs! Ha!)
My weight work is all on shoulders, arms, chest, back, nothing on legs as yet, though as I approach my later years (68.5 now) that will have to happen.
I have wondered if my back pain is from inflammation issues/food (I do milk products) or bulging/slipped disc/s. I have not had a diagnosis, and really don't want to yet, keep hoping my slow progression and gentle stretching will resolve it.
We did get some time in at "altitude" last week, 2200 feet in Tucson, with a peak just over 3000 feet. Nice to get a different climate than KC, but sad when it's at my wife's late mother's place, and reminded of her recent passing. So getting back around fellow runners at the store is a plus. Being reminded of her passing was also an incentive to feel blessed with every active moment.
*Week 435*
Greetings, 50+ers! Nice race reports from last week, thanks! Sounds like one needed to course grade as well as age grade that San Diego XC race. Unlike Charlie, I really hate running in sand.
I'll admit I'm being extra cautious right now. Thrilled that I've now gone over a week with no left knee pain. Almost back to normal (for me) mobility, too. So I mostly walked again this week, with 4 good long walks where I would also throw in some spurts of running (usually no more than 20-30s at a time...usually on the uphills.) Think I'll stick with this routine for a few more weeks, hopefully add another day or two and then gradually work back into full running. Knock on wood this moves the needle forward.
I hesitate to think what my current vO2 max/VDOT is right now....with all this dead weight. Yep, need to move back to limiting caloric intake. Need the will-power to do that. Having been so discouraged by the knee woes has made me ambivalent about diet goals; time to get motivated again.
That's all I've got. Hope you've had a great week and looking forward to more fall racing reports!
All the Best!
PS- A bunch of my buddies ran the Bourbon Chase 200-mile relay this past weekend, so shout-out to them!
PPS-My nephew won his Conference race by 35s yesterday! He'll probably make it to state only as an individual.
Good morning. A front blew in during my Saturday long run, turning it into a rain soaked six miler. I am sure I had an additional five pounds in gear weight by the time we finished. My goal was to hit 55 Igy miles for the weeks, but with the shorter session settled for 52 which was still a two year high. The weather worsened by the afternoon stripping a large number of leaves and branches from our trees. After some breakfast I will tackle yard clean-up. Time to do the fall trimming as well which may mean a couple of rest days to offset the stress. I have learned to make this compromise. My week:
Monday: AM- 8 miles in the foothills with 8 x 800m critical velocity pace; PM- 3 mile walk
Tuesday: AM- 60:00 spin; core; weights; PM- 1,500 yard swim
Wednesday: AM- 2 miles easy; 2,400m tempo @ 13:17 / 1:00 rest; 1,600m tempo @ 8:48 / 1:00 rest; 2,400m tempo @ 13:04; mile easy; mile easy; PM- 3 mile walk
Thursday: same as Tuesday
Friday: 4 mile easy/walk
Saturday: 6 miles in town
Sunday: yard work
Have a good week ahead.
Igy
Charlie wrote:
Oops must of missed an end quote.
In an nutshell:
Over half of the people over 60 are insulin resistant.
Here are 2 complimentary ways to check yourself:
1. Blood glucose checks with a simple cheap meter
2. Ketone level checks also with a simple meter or urine strips.
If your ketones are at least at .3 your insulin levels are low which is a good thing!
Early diagnosis of insulin resistance is critical:
https://www.bloodsugar101.com/organ-damage-and-blood-sugar-level
Actually, if the proper diagnosis were used, over 50% are probably true diabetic and 90-95% are insulin resistant. This is the Modern Plague which ties into cancer, heart disease, Alzheimer's, stroke, all modern metabolic syndrome diseases of mitochondrial dysfunction. And being a relatively lean runner is no guarantee of immunity from this, as I can attest.
YMMV I here ya. After 3 week my n of 1 indicates Keto all the way!
Second week off running still did 2 runs both speedy.
Speedy:
Monday
5x400 R30 seconds at 10mph felt pretty good on treadmill at 2 percent grade
Wednesday
2 x 3 minutes R 30 seconds my old tried and true stand up bike riding the last minute feels like the end of a 1500;)
a few hours later....
4 x 400 R full on treadmill start timing once treadmill is up to speed
grade/mph
6/8mph
1.5/10mph
1.5/11.1mph
1.5/12mph felt pretty easy could have went 800 or more seriously it felt easy
Did the bike 2x3minutes R30seconds today really enjoy this.
Aging, FMD, Keto, Future et al
FMD
So 2 weeks since my 5 days on the fasting mimicing diet(FMD) . I do NOT reccomend this unless you are in top shape and fat adapted.
After 2 weeks I feel fully recovered but I was concerned that I had messed myself up. Felt like my heart was working overtime
like when I tried doing long runs. Not scary just like my heart was tired. Extended elevated pulse after workouts dizzy standing up after sitting ect.
Anyhow this stuff gradually subsided during the second week after the FMD.As indicated above I have rebounded whew!
Again I would NOT do this is there is ANY concern about your health. After I finished the fast I read that it was not reccomended after age 65;)
Did it work?
Well I have no hard data except that my fasting blodd glucose dropped to 80 for the first week,but I feel like FMD did work.
Some of the benefits are well documented in human trials so google em if you are interested.
Will I continue to do FMD ?
Yes indeed but not monthly and maybe not for 5 days.
Yeah Keto!
After finishing the FMD I went Keto also modified OMAD expanding feeding window to 6 hours or so but only consume FATS for the first 3 of these.
Fat does not mess with the mTOR pathway but does help me spread out the calories and IMO is good for my liver and galbladder.
My KetoMojo meter fluxuates low in the morning .8 to 1.3 and peaks in the evening at 3.5. Basically nutritional ketosis.
Glycogen is still a concern but I might be one of those people who reloads glycogen via gluconeogenisis or maybe my muscles are just learning how to use fat and ketones for ATP genteration
Anyhow I am not going back to the crack/carbs.
Running/Racing Plans
My plans are pretty fluid , they change all the time but it really depends on how I feel. It is supposed to be fun right?
If I am not fantasizing about running some goal race then what is the point you cant force love either you feel that way or you dont.
Right now I got no love for racing except maybe mid D. Yeah mid D gets sounds good .
Long May You Run!
My “training” weeks are getting progressively weirder as I try to prepare for a marathon with a body that doesn’t cooperate.
Mon: A normal, easy 10.3 mile run.
Tues: Felt very stiff from the start, and the upper calf problem that had appeared two weeks earlier, and then mostly disappeared, showed up again and migrated into the back of the knee. I was a limping mess by the time I finished 10.5 miles.
Weds, Thurs, Fri: No running at all, just 90 minutes spinning on bike trainer each day.
Sat: Set out for a long run, figuring it’s now or never before my marathon in 2 weeks. Good news: the tightness in the upper calf/back of the knee was barely perceptible. Bad news: I started too fast and totally crashed at about 18 miles. My mid-calves started to cramp (both of them—the usual fatigue-induced cramps) and I ended up taking a few short walking breaks in the last 2 miles to make sure the calves didn’t seize up. I averaged 4:03 marathon pace for 21.8 miles, but it sure was ugly and I was wasted for the rest of the day.
Sun: Feeling really whacked from yesterday, and sore in a dozen different places. Put in 23 miles on the bike and called it good.
So a total of 43 miles for the week, but more than half of that in a single long run (shades of Allen1959!). I’m not at all confident about going into a marathon with so little mileage over the past 3 months, but it is what it is and now I need to focus on trying to stay healthy.
Mike L., I can appreciate how frustrating that persistent lower back pain can be. I have no idea whether any sort of exercises can help. For what it’s worth, I go to the gym 4-6 days per week and while I focus on upper body and core, I also do a few leg exercises that either work the legs in a way that running doesn’t, or are intended to strengthen places where I’ve had problems in the past. Always tough to judge the success of experiments of one.
Charlie, I admire your courage in doing various nutrition and training experiments on yourself. I tend to be a creature of habit and I usually need to be whacked across the face with a 2x4 before making any big changes. The experiment of one can be pretty painful if it’s unsuccessful!
Good running (or rehab) to all in the coming week.
Charlie- I think the speculation (and that is what it is...it's not people who are actually "boots on the ground") that keto will suppress glycolysis is either overblown or completely false. I have done the full range of training sessions on low or even zero carb and have had only improvement. This of course after having been fat-adapted for a few years already. If I was competing marathon and beyond, I would take in some form of carbs in-race, probably helps in that narrow application.
Some of the workouts have been interesting: for instance 10x 100 @ 400m pace used to peak on reps 3-5 then decline, now it is common for my last few reps to be the fastest. Pretty much every run is significantly negative-split.
lucKY: That’s good news on the knee!
Charlie: I admire your courage in trying new things. I am totally onboard with fasting and although I don’t talk about it anymore to anyone (instant judgement), I have coffee in the morning and eat nothing until 6 or so pm. It’s such a pattern I don’t even think about it anymore. And, yeah, I’ve felt fantastic for the last 2 years doing it. I can list a dozen great things about it but people don’t listen...and...frankly...I consider it my little secret and no longer share the details…..
Amkelley: Dang you are one tough runner!
TU: 5 medium gravel roads @ 3800 feet (sore right foot)
TH: 4 easy on paved greenway
FRI: Pruned two massive holly bushes/yard/hvac work for X training.
SA: 4 with 3 @ 7:36 pace (7:44, 7:32, 7:30).
SU: 4 easy on a new beautiful cinder greenway
I bumped back to 4 milers as the top of my right foot has been sore since I started the 5 milers. More than the distance, I think it is time on my feet that is the problem.
I was pleasantly surprised to speed up a bit SAT. I honestly did not think I was in shape to hit 7:30’s yet, but I run the same course every week and the progression is clear. I guess I really do just need one hard run a week.
Next SAT I have my first race since June/2 calf-pulls. I am excited to be out there racing again!
Run smart everyone!
On Monday the legs were still a bit beat up from my first run in a long time wearing minimalist shoes, so I kept things on the shorter side. By midweek I was back in the mid-heels and the volume was back to normal. Did b2b days with the second run being shorter but at a faster pace. Saturday’s planned run was postponed due to family obligations. Back at it today with no ill effects.
Thanks again for the continued support I have received from many of you. It really helps!
Best to most.
Sun: off
Mon: 40’ CR, body wt ex
Tues: off
Wed: 52’ CR, body wt ex
Thu: 34’ CR
Fri: walk with the fam
Sat: off
Sun: 52’ CR, body wt ex
good luck in your return to racing.
fun week in cooler fall weather here:
M 1:20
Tu 2:10 double
W 1:35 with 30:00 at marathon pace
Th 1:55 double
F 1:15
Sa 30:00 + 1:00 x-t
Su 1:00 with 5k x-c race in 20:13 [8th OA, 2nd AG]
fun cross-country race this morning on hilly course in high grass and the steady rain that has helped burgundy-and-gold hold the 49ers to 3 points into fourth quarter.
Always tough to interpret x-c times, but in terms of the soft indicators.....
+ I finished ahead of a couple of runners who beat me more often than not
- it took me about a mile to get past a guy who was carrying a closed umbrella. I had fun thinking of possible explanations (he got a text from a volunteer course marshal asking him to bring an umbrella; he wanted to be prepared to open it up and start flying if the rain got heavier during race...........)
have a great week,
Dave
lucKY, congratulations and "extra caution" is always a good thing when rehabbing back to full health and fitness.
amkelley, good luck with your marathon. You got the long run done and now you can just work on getting on the starting line as fresh and rested as possible.
I had a lower mileage week as I realized on Monday that my still sore throat was not just residual from Saturday's XC race, but was a virus. I took Tue, Wed, and Thur off and drugged up on cold medication. On Thur. I realized I was getting over the cold and felt mostly normal by Friday morning. Saturday I ran with my son at our usual pace but my HR was about 20 bpm higher than usual at that pace. This weekend was alumni weekend for my college XC team, UCSD. In addition to various eating and drinking activities yesterday, which I skipped, he invited alumni to join the team this morning for their workout. I and a couple of other much more recent alumni showed up. My older son ran for UCSD when their current coach was a senior, so I have known him for over 20 years. He introduced me to the team as an "institution" who ran for the team, whose sons ran for the team, and whose daughters in law ran for the team. I believe "institution" translates to "too old to still run fast". He had the women's team doing 60 minutes of 30 minutes easy followed by 30 minutes at slightly below threshold. I managed to hang onto the women's squad for a little over 5 miles and about 40 minutes before they dropped me. I definitely got the hard effort I was looking for at 3 weeks out from our local XC championship race.
So my week was 25 miles -
M- walk 7 with strides
T- off
W- off
Th- off
F- walk 7 with strides
S- 6 trails 8:48/mi ave
Su- 5 trails 7:55/mi ave
Good running and racing to all.
old guy II,
I forgot to mention that Mark Stanforth was a coaching friend/colleague. I had a couple of his juco athletes before he took the job at UCSD. Good coach and nice guy from my experience.
Igy
M60, 5'11", 174 lbs
M - off
T -- 5 miles @ 7:54/mi (8:14/mi out, 7:35/mi back)
W - off
Th - off
F -- off
Sa - off
Su - 4 miles @ 8:33/mi (9:21, 8:50, 8:24, 7:35)
Even (hard) effort today, start to finish. Pace progressed as I warmed up and knee pain subsided a bit. New shoes help some (low-drop, stable, cushioned).
Planning to get back to 3-4 running days this week. Missed that goal last week due to work and travel. May target a 10-mile race in February. Sub-8 min/mile pace?
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
old guy II,
I forgot to mention that Mark Stanforth was a coaching friend/colleague. I had a couple of his juco athletes before he took the job at UCSD. Good coach and nice guy from my experience.
Igy
I missed the UCSD Mark Stanforth era for track and XC. When I ran there we were an NAIA school and the track coach (there was no XC program) was Andy Skief, who preceded Stanforth. Navy Vietnam service, law school and the demands of a young family and busy career disconnected me from the XC program for almost two decades. Stanforth had moved on to Air Force a year or so before I started running in a masters training group at UCSD that was run by Ted Van Arsdale, who was the XC and track coach (until Tony Salerno and Darcy Ahner came from Air Force to head the track program). UCSD was a DIII school by then and Ted was the XC coach and distance coach for both my sons. UCSD moved to DII before my son's last year of eligibility and, because of XC scheduling, he was the school's first DII NCAA championship qualifier and squeaked in to make it as their first DII all-American. Next year UCSD starts the move to DI and will run its XC season in the Big West.
M50, 6'1", 190 lbs
Sunday 10/13 - Chicago Marathon, crashed hard the last six miles, 3:54
M - 8.05 miles, solo, 8:51 avg (9;16, 9:12, 9:02, 8:55, 8:48, 8:44, 8:33, 8:26)
T - off
W - 4.21 miles, w/friends, 9:13 avg (10:17, 9:37, 9:04, 8:18)
Th - 6.46 miles, easy w/friend, 10:04 avg (10:51, 10:25, 10:04, 9:47, 9:16, 10:11)
F - off
Sa - 5.14 miles, solo, 9:01 avg (9:21, 9:20, 9:15, 8:51, 8:24)
Su - 12.02 miles, partly with friends who are aiming for a sub 2 half, 9:01 avg, (9:25, 9:10, 9:19, 9:20, 9:13, 9:14, 9:29, 9:06, 8:14, 9:21, 8:39, 7:54)
Was sick Friday through Sunday, resting HR is usually 49-51 and was 60 Saturday, 58 Sunday.
Looking ahead, I have a virtual marathon to run the weekend of November 1-3 -- just get the miles in, the plan is to keep the HR below 150 for the whole thing so most likely 4:10-4:20 -- and the local Fox Trot 4 miler on Thanksgiving. After that nothing until the Shamrock Shuffle 8k (Chicago) on March 22.