40-minute PR!!!!! way to go. What did you do differently this time?
Congratulations and happy recovering,
Dave
40-minute PR!!!!! way to go. What did you do differently this time?
Congratulations and happy recovering,
Dave
Masters XC Champs...
Highlights...
#1
The ongoing and growing camaraderie with masters athletes who know exactly what real living can be if you toe the line. "If" seems to be more and more challenging with age. Hence, we who are so fortunate to race on the day represent one another. Y'all know it.
#2
The attempt to race harder after a 6:20 first mile; what I thought was slow for my fitness/workouts (on tracks). I managed to race people with some success, but only up until about 2.5k. This highlight is good for us high school coaches to try and teach to the youngsters at practice this week. Only this humble pie eating coach must work on holding the line for the second half of the race.
#3
What Cush & Old Guy II said. My edit would be something along the lines of "at M59+ it's useless to be disappointed". It's useful to enjoy the moment no matter what the clock says, or how bad the spongy, clumpy, softy, slowy, whatevery, was for us middle-distance runners who crave the firmest ground like Mondo, Dirt, or Asphalt. I think my age-grade performance was close to 95% for the rest of the day at sunny west coast ipa spaces with friends for life.
Onward!
dhaaga wrote:
40-minute PR!!!!! way to go. What did you do differently this time?
Congratulations and happy recovering,
Dave
Thanks Dave!
The main thing for me was getting my miles up; I averaged 48+ over the twelve weeks before the marathon, up from the low thirties. I didn't have any more than a few speed workouts during that time, pretty much all miles in the bank, although I typically (inadvertently) do progression runs a few times a week.
old guy II wrote:
I passed a couple of runners and came up fast on a runner ahead of me and called "on your right" as I got close. I don't know if he mis-heard me or was just tired, but he then took a step to the right and got his foot tangled with my leg and went down.
From my limited experience, if I shout "on your right" one out of three people would move to the right. However, this is mostly with "fitness walkers." The only close encounters I had in races were when there were marathon/half, half/10k, 10k/5k combo situation, and I was passing people who were much slower than myself. (And you cannot call 3+ hr half marathoners "runners.") But I guess one's judgment can be seriously impaired under severe fatigue.
My week.
M: off.
T-W: 7 miles.
R: 8 miles.
F-SA: 7 miles.
SU: 14.4 miles.
For the first time in 4 months, I went out to a park for the long run. (9:18 for the first mile and 7:53 for the last mile.) The good news is resurfacing is now complete, and I have a smooth surface to run on. The bad news is they replaced asphalt with concrete, which is harder on my joints.
Turned 57.
Ran 6 miles today- did so in the form of a "progression"- for no apparent reason:
8:50; 8:17; 7:52; 7:16; 7:15; 7:07
Went to lunch.
Haven't been posting but have been following.Love the great community of Masters here!
amKelley-Nice job on your 1/2 marathon and 10k -despite the calf issues hope it fully resolves soon.I am always
impressed by your mileage and race schedule.
Olde farte-Nice to see you back in the mix.
Ghost of Igloi-your 5k xc run after a very tough year is fantastic!
Allen1959-Hope you find a solution to your knee pain.Those 55-59 marathon times are great! sub3 @60 is my
ultimate goal as well!
lucKY2b-great TT mile run!
SCgal-I always enjoy reading of your triathlon exploits as this is something i am seriously considering.Congratulations on your recent success!
grandpaboy-Congrats on your huge marathon PR!(mileage matters).
Rtype-Solid week of training.
Congratulations to all the Masters 5k XC National runners!!
Oldguy II-65-69AG-Wow that is an amazing time!
KPdx-95% AG Incredible!(i can only dream)
socalcush-I can't wait until I am able to run a disappointing low 18 min 5k XC race.Great Run!
Dave Waddles wrote:
Hope you find a solution to your knee pain. Those 55-59 marathon times are great! sub3 @60 is my ultimate goal as well!
Dave, thanks for that. Probably no competitive running in my future, but the last few years were a lot of fun, despite the setbacks. Best wishes with your Age 60 goal! Is that soon?
I logged no miles the previous week, but this past week got out for three runs:
M60 - 5'11" 172 lbs
Mon: Off
Tues: Off
Wed: 5.0 miles @ 8:25/mi
Thur: Off
Fri: 5.0 miles @ 9:10/mi
Sat: Off
Sun: 4.0 miles (8:51, 8:29, 7:55, 7:21)
TOTAL - 14.0 MILES
Sunday's effort was pretty much all-out from the start. The pace increased naturally as I warmed up. Pushed very hard the last bit, dry heaving at the end. Knees hurt with each step of each run, but that's just a given these days.
DaveW... my poor story clarification. AG95% was for social post-race stuff. :)
Anyone at Huntsman this week?
Allen1959 wrote:
Dave Waddles wrote:
Hope you find a solution to your knee pain. Those 55-59 marathon times are great! sub3 @60 is my ultimate goal as well!
Dave, thanks for that. Probably no competitive running in my future, but the last few years were a lot of fun, despite the setbacks. Best wishes with your Age 60 goal! Is that soon?
I logged no miles the previous week, but this past week got out for three runs:
M60 - 5'11" 172 lbs
Mon: Off
Tues: Off
Wed: 5.0 miles @ 8:25/mi
Thur: Off
Fri: 5.0 miles @ 9:10/mi
Sat: Off
Sun: 4.0 miles (8:51, 8:29, 7:55, 7:21)
TOTAL - 14.0 MILES
Sunday's effort was pretty much all-out from the start. The pace increased naturally as I warmed up. Pushed very hard the last bit, dry heaving at the end. Knees hurt with each step of each run, but that's just a given these days.
How ironic - my current running schedule is near identical to yours: I run Tues, Thur, & Sat and hit the weights & spin bike at the gym on the other 4 days. Tues & Thursday's are 5 miles @ 9:00 pace with some intermittent short walking breaks. Sunday is 4 miles at 9:00 pace with the last mile a TT, and given how my body will hold up - anywhere from 7:10 to 7:30 (full VO2max effort). Usually there isn't much pain from my arthritic & deformed ankle nor from my degenerative Achilles & ACL until after the run (always post-run icing and sometimes pain meds), but the TT can get kind of shaky as I increase leg turnover, irritation starts occurring to these injury sites. I'm holding about the same weight as you (169/170) but on a midget frame at 5-6 (barely. Lol).
I was looking back the other day at some old training logs from 20 yrs ago when I was in my early 40s: 40 mpw spread over 5 days; one midweek speed session at the track and either a 3k or 5k TT or a race on weekends. I was racing year round and relatively injury-free. I was actually little heavier at 175 but had a lower body fat % then I have now at 170. The "good old days" as I think back. Then starting around age 50 the roof literally caved in with tendon & ligament ruptures leading to degenerative joint pathologies and for good measure a back problem - all the name of competitive running.
In my case, it's not built for competitive running = wear & tear = major injuries = restrictive recreational running. I never thought the musculoskeletal system could degenerate so destructively as you age if you're not built or suited for certain sporting activities (just for fun I looked up Kipchoge - he's listed at 5-6 and "115 lbs"...now that's a build for competitive distance running. Lol).
Lowering body fat more important than diet to improve VDOT. Supplementing your running days with cross training is a proven method of improving fitness. Weight training benefits documented as important for the elderly. If you can touch on the other middle/long distance fitness variables you’ll do pretty well. Of course the more specific you can be enhances your ability.
Stocky Old Runner wrote:
... and hit the weights & spin bike at the gym on the other 4 days.
Ahh, you remind me that I need to get back to some strength training. I got away from it a few weeks ago because I couldn't afford any lingering fatigue or upper body weakness while at work. I had to carry plywood and materials up a ladder and work on a three-story roof ... and I don't like heights to begin with!
In the long run, of course, maintaining upper body strength helps for those jobs. I've been finding such work increasingly difficult recently.
I'm hoping to maintain a 3-times-a-week running schedule. 4 or 5 miles. That schedule set me up for a 3:25 marathon a few years ago. Just had to add a few long runs. Not that I'm planning any more marathons!
Earlier this year, I suffered from what Igy accurately described as "pace lock" -- stuck at 11-minute miles. In the past, I could start easy at 13-minute pace, and naturally progress to 7:00. But this year, it wasn't happening. And I was TRYING to pick up the pace.
So now I start hard for most runs. Breathing hard, lactic acid buildup, while focusing on knee lift, back kick. Uncomfortably hard, wanting to quit during the first mile. Thinking it impossible to maintain that effort for the full four or five miles.
But I eventually settle into the pace, actually going faster at the same effort. Still feeling hard, but not impossible. I've been a fan of long, slow distance since my youth, so this approach is unnatural and difficult. So far, though, it seems to be working.
A bit of a lower volume week last week both running and biking but I did have a better kayak week.
I eliminated most of the slow incidental jogs after tweaking a foot tendon. I just walked those 4 to 6 kms most days with just brief jogging sections.
Mon. 69 mins kayak.
Tue. 2 hr 6 min hilly mtn bike ride.
Wed. I ran 8 pretty solid efforts up Suicide Hill (located near work). It is a 290 metres long sketchy rocky hill with 52 metres elevation gain. Fastest was a 3.10. All up just 6.5 technical trail kms with 450 metres elevation gain in 1 hr 5 mins.
Thu. 64 mins kayak on the Campaspe River.
Fri. 5.8 km steady trail run on flat smooth terrain 30 mins. Then 37 hilly kms on the road bike in 90 mins.
Sat. 14 km run on hilly farm roads 500 metres elevation gain 1 hr 25 mins.
Sun. Club social handicap relay 2 legs of 1400 metres in 6.15 and 6.05.
So far a nice week of funhogging this week.
Mon. An hour of kayak on the lake with 4 x 3 mins efforts
Tue. 90 min on the mtn bike inc Mt Ida tower road. Stava gave me an11.51 exactly the same as my previous ride 10 days ago. I rode my 55-59 PB of 11.21 3 days before my 60th. My 3 rides since have been 11.46 11.51 and 11.51.
Wed. In the rain this morning I ran 6 x Roo Hill all up just 6 kms total in 66 mins. Technical trail, rocks, roots and logs. The climb is 500 metres long with just under 90 metres elevation gain. Averaged about 6.30 for the climbs.
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Lowering body fat more important than diet to improve VDOT.
Please explain.
Creating a caloric deficit. Max VO2 formula is driven in part by body weight. VDOT an estimation of same. Of course eating good calories versus empty is a given. Bill Rodgers was famous for his pizza and mayonnaise. Volume and quality of training was driving factor. Charlie has improved a bunch over the past year. Sure diet (type of food) may be influencer, but driven more by creating a caloric deficit. That was the thought.
Weight/ Vo2max/ Age....
Straight forward stuff:
Age 60 weight 150 mile 5:51 which age grades to about a 20 minute 5000
Age 60 weight 142 2 miles on treadmill at 1.5 grade 12 minutes age grades to 19:07 5000
Age 62 weight 132 5000 on track 19:05
Factoring in the aging process:
19:07 at 60 age gradewise is 19:30 at 62 but I ran 19:05
which is 25 seconds FASTER over 5000 meters 10 pounds lighter.
So hauling around 10 pounds of lard cost me about 2 seconds per lap!
Here I be at Sixtee 150 lbs wierd thing is I felt pretty strong. So I might need to do more fast stuff as I do less fast stuff than when I was huffing and puffing at 60:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dEAoMwsG-rjE3Bzx1XliRyb8RawFSRrz/view?usp=sharing
Charlie,
Physically you look totally different lighter, but most people do. I think the diet, nico nico, soft sand running, have been a very positive mix for you. My approach is probably not that much different, a little more flexibility on the diet, and cross training to replace nico nico and softer surface/resistance. Still optimal weight 15-20 lbs lower. Most likely 5-10 lbs lost thru training, and same amount thru caloric reduction.
I am looking for a watch that I can wear while running that continuously gives me an accurate heart rate. Any suggestions?
Posting here after a few years absence to try get my self motivated to put a few more quality workouts in , and low and behold a regular poster, old guy II is a teammate of mine (albeit in a different AG but a much higher age graded time last Saturday 79 vs 72). Nice race Saturday and keep up the good work!
As old guy II knows much of my motivation is a few cold IPAs after our races and we do have a few accomplished home brewers on our humble team and often bring a keg of quality suds to share after our xc races.
Glad to hear I toed the line with a few of you last Saturday in our beautiful city. That course is bittersweet for us locals. Most of us have been running around Mission Bay for decades and it certainly is beautiful, but that mushy surface can suck your push off for sure. We have to race it for 8k in 4 weeks. Uggg.
Race went fairly well, teammate went out a little faster than I wanted, but I hung on his shoulder, we both faded a bit. 6:34, 6:44, 6:49. No kick at the end. Most of my training is longer stuff and I just cant seem to get comfortable at 6:30 pace or faster.
Catching up on old posts, interesting to see the name of Van Aaken’s name come up. I have found some of my best seasons occur after summers of high mileage, but how slow is slow? As for the walking breaks proposed by Van Aaken, those who have run the B team Sunday run here in SD know that there is a mandatory walking/stretching break as we pass the sand volleyball courts at South Mission Beach.
Sunday 14 8 min/m
Monday 2 9 min/m
Tuesday 8 fartlek over the MB course: 6 x 90 secs at RP
Wednesday am 4 8:30 min/m
Wednesday pm 2.5 9 min/m
Thursday 5 8:30 min/m
Friday 3 8:30 min/m
Saturday 6 Race + w/up and cool down 21:02
Total 44.5
Low mileage week due to xc race, I have been averaging low 50’s
Also made a pledge to run every day this year which I have kept up to now, with a few 1’s after the OC marathon in May. (I’m 54 btw)
How slow is slow? I was thinking earlier this year how my instinctive easy pace is ridiculously slow - typically over 6 min per KM pace. But then I thought about it a bit more deeply. I was running races of 20 to 40 min. duration at 4.30 per KM pace. Now a top level runner races for that duration of time at about 4.30 per MILE. Such a runner will usually do much of his training at 6 min per MILE or slower. So comparitively me shuffling along at 6 min km pace for 10 kms is about the same sort of effort as Jack Rayner running 6 min miles for 10 miles. Of course it would be good if I was also putting in the volume and quality workouts Jack does lol.
This has helped me to relax a lot more on my easy paced runs.