Vaporflys (presumably) crush it again. Produce amazing times in Valencia. 26:38 10k, A 2:03:51 and 4 2:18s!!!

Besides, carbon fiber can be manufactured a lot of different ways. It can be insanely stiff, very flexible, brittle, durable etc. And while the plate in the VF has some flex to it, the effectiveness of the claimed "spring" will vary based on the weight of the runner, like a leaf spring in a pickup truck.

People never bring this up, but if the magic was just the plate, then why aren't people killing it in the Zoom Fly Flyknit, or Zoom Fly 3? They have the exact same carbon fiber plate.. the only difference is the foam.

Runners just believe what they want to believe.

UA Runner wrote:

People never bring this up, but if the magic was just the plate, then why aren't people killing it in the Zoom Fly Flyknit, or Zoom Fly 3? They have the exact same carbon fiber plate.. the only difference is the foam.

They are, people just don't race in them when the superior Vaporfly is available.

The number of people just guessing or going with "gut thinking" in this thread is hilarious when you can just find the exact answer in seconds after all these years.

Nike SRL already explained how and why the shoe works to their peers in biomechanics, not the marketing people, the actual scientists and researchers who invented and tuned the darn thing (and then Nike patented which is why you won't find it in any other retail shoe, only unreleased/unsold prototypes by other brands).

The massive amount of pebax foam only plays a small role. Instead it's most definitely the plate and specifically the patented curve in the plate because as many know there have been occasional attempts at shoes with (flat) plates for decades.

Every time your foot hits the ground the MTP joint loses energy. The plate returns/saves a great deal of that energy instead (acting therefore like a spring, returning energy). The curve in the plate solves the problem where a flat plate injures the ankle by shunting that energy the wrong way and producing stress/load just elsewhere.

https://i.imgur.com/bJ0mRvt.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/zEZsogM.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bLDMPCZ.jpg

original paper for those with access who want to read it:

https://doi.org/10.1080/19424280.2019.1606119

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=https://www.bartoldclinical.com/assets/documents/creating-footwear-for-performance-running-q0iz3o.pdf

zoomzoomzoom wrote:

original paper for those with access who want to read it:

it's behind a $50 paywall wise guy.

But that won't stop us from critically examining this concept of the MTP joints "losing energy." What exactly do you mean by this? How do they have more energy before footstrike than during or after?

I've run in Nike spikes built on the notion that a concave-up curved plate that tends to force the toes into an extended position will spring you forward, but it's half-baked nonsense and all it does is mess up your form and cause injuries. The MTP joint moves from flexed to neutral during footstrike, after which it is re-extended by nothing more than the motion of the foot behind the body. It's simply impossible for it not to reextend.

After that, the force applied to this joint is back to flexion as the joint itself moves off the ground. During this toe off phase - the critical follow-through of a fast stride - the last thing you want is an added force working against that flexion.

Go Sweden Go wrote:

Lot of faster Euros who I never heard of. Who are Navarro, Santiago, Nilsson?? All ran 2:10 flat.

David Nilsson has been running well for a long time but this is the first great result in the marathon. He used to hold the Swedish record for the half (62:09) and now got it for the marathon. He is sponsored by Reebok so no Vaporflys.

Reebok does use the same foam.

Navarro ran 2:12 at Valencia 1 year ago, 2:11 in Paris earlier this year, he is on Strava and share every single training with his HR values as well.

Nothinh surprising about his 2:10.

Well, it's actually proven that Nike vaporfly makes us faster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjLO5-lR7j8

Think of this analogy, Wigs:

Pistorios' blades give energy return (think spring) at the "ankle" section of the blade by re-extending it during propulsive phase of gait with the stored energy it gained when he was in mid-foot/blade ground strike when the "ankle" portion of the blade was flexing.

Similarly, as the MTPJs dorsiflex in early toe-off, the foot plate is storing energy at the flex-point and then returning the energy to "assist" the mtpjs with stronger plantarflexion in late propulsive phase, enhanced push-off.

Just cut the clickbait crap. You have beat this dead horse enough. This is just another chapter in the long history of "running shoe wars" Been going on long before you knew what one was and will continue long after this website shuts down. The other companies can and will compete. The more you focus on this bogus topic, the more Nike is laughing all the way to the bank. Refocus your efforts other performance enhancers that are far more damaging to our sport than the next new shoe on the block.

Well, no....

According to LRC's own story, there were 10 sub 2:06 runners to start.

Only 4 runners went under 2:06 in Valencia.

Vaporflys are apparently slowing the runners down.

Bad Wigins wrote:

[quote]UA Runner wrote:

Cyclists thoroughly understand the physics of their sport. Runners are not only thoroughly ignorant, they will fiercely defend their ignorance against all contrary information. They want to believe in magic shoes.

I agree with your comment about the cyclists, but you are making exactly the same mistake arguing the wrong point.

Marathon running performance is very little about speed as opposed to economy. Two equally fast runners over 1km with all other aspects the same will have vastly different outcomes if their economy is different. Its not the only thing but the most important.

And one of the main parameters affecting economy is in fact more backlift vs forward knee lift and vertical oscillation, resulting in more 'air time', with a pendulum (gravity assisted) swing of lower limb forward, longer stride under COG (not 'just' longer stride) and less contact time.

Your own harnessed of energy at contact released through tendon (spring) activation that enables the backlift improves economy.

A hard curved plate of the shoe will enhance that.