Sub-20 5k or bust!

Yep, I started at 5mph for warmup, advanced to 6, then eventually to 7.5 to mix it up.

Treadmill is for convenience, and tracking. Agree that it is repetitive, but I don’t do it long enough to freeze up. Got sore feet from Nike’s while walking around on terra firma!

good to see you're back to running, SG. idle curiosity--did you intend the title of this thread to be a form of tribute to Cancer Guy's final thread?

(I recall that you were a regular on that thread.)

Geezer, what is your 100m pr? And what was your mileage when you ran 10:00 for two miles in high school?

Cavorty wrote:

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Haven’t done any longer running forever.

Baseline 4 days ago: 28:30 (!)

Today: 26:00

I won’t lie, it wasn’t easy. All my times include warmup—I just start running. At the end I hopped on a treadmill and did a bunch of 1-min repeats at 12mph, to finish off.

Feels good! Will probably slow my sprinting, though. I think oxygenation is important, and I get it better during running than during rowing, swimming, or biking.

You may now pile on?

I'm a 62-year-old coming back off injury with the same goal. Got down to 5 x 1000m with 2:30 recovery at 19:50 pace, but a long ways off when I try and put it all together in a race!

If you have a clear goal (in this case 20:00) is it best to do as much running as possible at the goal pace, even if you're some way from it (as it appears you're doing)?

From the advice I've read on these boards and elsewhere, 2:30 rests for 5x1K are a bit long, but if it means you can do the intervals at your goal pace - even if you're only capable of say 22:30 in a race currently - would it make sense (and gradually decrease the rests)? Seems to me it would. I do most of my intervals at 4:00/KM or faster and have been doing so for a while. Running at that pace now seems 'easier' and more natural to me than slow running, even if I still can't maintain it for much more than a mile. I'm currently at 22 minutes 5K but I expect when I get close to 21 minutes I will go sub 20:00 soon after.

dkny64 wrote:

good to see you're back to running, SG. idle curiosity--did you intend the title of this thread to be a form of tribute to Cancer Guy's final thread?

(I recall that you were a regular on that thread.)

Just goal setting, in the spirit of 2 of the best LR threads ever—CG and EddyLee. I feel like there’s some sort of community on here, even though this place can be ridiculous. When you declare yourself like this, you must give a real effort, because those guys set an insanely high standard.

EddyLee was boss, relentless, and he chronicled it all so that he could be taken to task if he slipped. CG was absolutely heroic, if you say you’re going to do something you had better try hard because no matter how hard you try, if you are in good health you will never have tried harder than he did.

Sub-20 without losing sprint ability might sound wanker, but for me it’s real—maybe like some of you trying to get to a 350-lb squat while not putting on any weight. Trying to fit something new into your life without changing anything else can be tough!

I have picked a challenge that is small and meaningless in the larger scheme of life, but it’s an honest one, and at the end of the day I think that’s what this board is about. Here’s to CG and EddyLee, 2 monuments to trying your best while staying true.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

I have picked a challenge that is small and meaningless in the larger scheme of life, but it’s an honest one, and at the end of the day I think that’s what this board is about. Here’s to CG and EddyLee, 2 monuments to trying your best while staying true.

Cheers

10.4, good coach said I was maybe 10.3 with full sprint training.

HS “mileage” was only 2 miles, 3x per week, IIRC. It was the warmup before every gym class! But tons of other activity, of course, including a 1-hr good run with a friend on weekends, just for fun. I was the same height then, but maybe 20-25 lbs less muscle. Ran on pure youth.

Stretching feels pretty good this morning, and calf is all better. I think I will do 30 seconds next workout, re-creating where I left off. Pretty sure I will be able to do it, but I expect HR to be higher.

Have been thinking about another poster’s comment about treadmills being inaccurate. I believe it. I hope the one I use is inaccurate in the good direction!

Coevett wrote:

From the advice I've read on these boards and elsewhere . . . I do most of my intervals at 4:00/KM or faster and have been doing so for a while. Running at that pace now seems 'easier' and more natural to me than slow running, even if I still can't maintain it for much more than a mile. I'm currently at 22 minutes 5K but I expect when I get close to 21 minutes I will go sub 20:00 soon after.

That seems strange advice to me, unless you are talking about a schedule for a few weeks trying to peak. Running intervals at (20-minute) goal pace for a 22-minute 5K runner seems like a race simulation rather than something that you should be doing regularly for a long period of time to improve fitness. I'd be curious to see the advice that led you there, or to hear from coaches who have success with that kind of goal pace training.

How long are your intervals and how much volume do you run at sub-4 pace?

I also have to “warm into” a slow pace because it is less comfortable for me, less natural.

When I do a slow pace, my stride shortens more than my cadence decreases, YMMV.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

What got me going on this was some thread that reported that Brett Kavanaugh ran a faster 5k time than what I was running. Petty? Probably. Motivating? Absolutely.

What did he ever do to you? You leftists are amazingly vindictive, angry, miserable human beings.

Well put.

The EddyLee thread was before my time on this board--I'm only aware of it because CG referenced it in the title of his final thread.

CG was amazing and remains a hero of mine. Any time I'm feeling sorry for myself, I remind myself of how much he valued every opportunity to be active to the very end.

I get the goal of trying to drop the 5k time while not losing sprint speed. However, continuing to stress the anaerobic has already resulted in a set back that has lasted several months. I think a better approach would be building strength, volume thru tempo runs and repetitions to maintain speed. Seems to me the current approach will lead to injury or burnout. Being tough is not necessarily smart.

Igy

Intervals should be slower than race pace with little rest between each interval, but repeats would be at goal race pace with more rest (HR needs to come back down), right? At least that's what I've been doing in my quality workouts.

Cheers,

stfu JS wrote:

webby wrote:

That seems strange advice to me, unless you are talking about a schedule for a few weeks trying to peak. Running intervals at (20-minute) goal pace for a 22-minute 5K runner seems like a race simulation rather than something that you should be doing regularly for a long period of time to improve fitness. I'd be curious to see the advice that led you there, or to hear from coaches who have success with that kind of goal pace training.

How long are your intervals and how much volume do you run at sub-4 pace?

Intervals should be slower than race pace with little rest between each interval, but repeats would be at goal race pace with more rest (HR needs to come back down), right? At least that's what I've been doing in my quality workouts.

Cheers,

So the difference between intervals and repeats is simply that repeats are at goal race pace with longer rests?

I haven't been 'given any advice' other than picking up bits from this board and elsewhere that seem to make sense. I've read that it's a good idea to do as much running at your 'goal pace', which seems to make sense to me. Now obviously I understand that advice is interpreted by most here as applying to, for example, a club runner who has been running for some time or even a sub-elite, who is hoping to improve his 5K by 10 seconds maybe over the course of a season. But what about me or sprintgeezer who are hoping to go from 22 minutes to 20 minutes in maybe 6 weeks, or from 28 minutes to 20 minutes in 6 months?

As far as me inviting injury by running lots of my mileage at 'goal pace', me and sprintgeezer aren't 125 lb twinks. I have a totally different background to him and am new in both short and long distance running, but I'm trying to improve my sprints (which I'm a bit more suited to than distance) at the same time as crack 20 minutes for the 5K. The only niggles I get really now are when I'm doing the sprint work, or lumbering along on a pointless 10 mile 'easy run'. Intervals at 18 to 20 minute 5K pace even though I can only run 22 minutes right now in a race, feel very easy on my legs.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

if you say you’re going to do something you had better try hard

while that's a nice sentiment, it doesn't apply to distance running any more than sprinting. #1 mistake is too much effort.

It's actually easy to run sub 20, unless you weigh a whole lot, and it won't drain away your sprint speed. It's not even within 150% of world record pace. Just train intelligently, e.g. work your way up to volume and don't run through injuries or developing injuries. Get used to running at goal pace, and it will be easier.

Have you ever tried some PEDs? EPO? Blood doping? Steroids? When Coe benefitted, why not you?

With your speed and that kind of baseline aerobic it would have been interesting to see what kind of 800 runner you could have developed into

Coevett wrote:

Intervals at 18 to 20 minute 5K pace even though I can only run 22 minutes right now in a race, feel very easy on my legs.

Yep, for me too. What I am doing must be causing some sort of adaptation, maybe lactate threshold or aerobic capacity. Whatever is going on, it’s fun—going to try to re-create 30-second workout later today.