Mary Cain DNF

She should be racing 800s and then slowly move up in distance as her fitness and form returns. Essentially bad coaching to have her racing 3000 m.

Mary got absolutely crushed out there and went home devastated. She was nowhere near the point where she should be racing. She got dropped almost instantly.

He needs to have a chance wrote:

stateezee wrote:

How is it a poor comparison to show international championship results in arguing the notion that Cain wasn't once as much a world class runner as Jakob is currently?

Because it isn't a Championship year the year Jakob is 17. I think most would agree he has done a bit better if you want to actually draw a comparison using relative performances.

Nah

Why did she go to Europe to race? Was her family vacationing so she decided to jump in a race. Surely she didn’t fly there to run a race that could have been run at a NY all comers meet.

bleu wrote:

Why did she go to Europe to race? Was her family vacationing so she decided to jump in a race. Surely she didn’t fly there to run a race that could have been run at a NY all comers meet.

We know very little about Cain's training or plans, but we do know that she did fly to Europe just to race.

If you haven't seen it, RoJo's summary of Cain's recent interview with Merber & Pappas will get you up to speed on what we know about her situation.

Les wrote:

Unfortunately not possible to upload pics on Letsrun forum)

Not true.

Just paste the link.

Here is one of me and weldon and tracksmith founder Matt Taylor.

Teddy B wrote:

Are you kidding me this is who team Cain put their faith in?

There is nothing here that shows he is at all qualified to be her coach and might explain why since the switch from Salazar her performances have dropped off great ly.

You do realize a) he'san Olympian and b) he coached her in HS (with Salazar's help). I think he's plenty qualified to coach her.

I think the real problem is this.

ihop with a p wrote:

One of the problems was that her performances had already started to slip before the injury. Her body has changed and nothing she can really do about that.

She was slowing down before the break. It's hard to be good as ayou go from a teen to 20 something woman. Ask Candace Hill. Alexa Efraimson.

rojo wrote:

Teddy B wrote:

Are you kidding me this is who team Cain put their faith in?

There is nothing here that shows he is at all qualified to be her coach and might explain why since the switch from Salazar her performances have dropped off great ly.

You do realize a) he'san Olympian and b) he coached her in HS (with Salazar's help). I think he's plenty qualified to coach her.

I think the real problem is this.

ihop with a p wrote:

One of the problems was that her performances had already started to slip before the injury. Her body has changed and nothing she can really do about that.

She was slowing down before the break. It's hard to be good as ayou go from a teen to 20 something woman. Ask Candace Hill. Alexa Efraimson.

Being an Olympian is no guarantee that you can coach. And when she was in hs living in ny she was coached by Salazar and this guy simply held the stop watch.

He may be a good coach for 57 min 10k guys looking to get under 50 and just need some basic structure to his training but he has nothing to show that he can coach her

Having this 3k as her 1st race in almost 2 years was a huge coaching blunder and shows clearly he does not know what he is doing

rojo wrote:

Les wrote:

Unfortunately not possible to upload pics on Letsrun forum)

Not true.

Just paste the link.

Here is one of me and weldon and tracksmith founder Matt Taylor.

https://www.letsrun.com/photos/2008/pumaparty/thumbnails/tn08_04PUMA026.JPG

You guys are so cute. Do you have any pictures of you both with Bekele in the middle?

Nobody here gets it wrote:

She should be racing 800s and then slowly move up in distance as her fitness and form returns. Essentially bad coaching to have her racing 3000 m.

800's, yes. Moving up, hell no. What was she/her coach/anyone else even thinking?

She has ran 1:59 at 800. 8:58 is nothing compared to that, and she's not even in shape to hold 8:58 pace a third of the way. Not her event at all.

I bet she can hold sub 2 pace for 266 meters, easy.

I think a fair number of us can relate to what we saw in that race. We make a “ comeback “, get in a race, and then we realize the fire is really out. To me it seemed like she quickly realized she just didn’t want to be there. It happens to many. I’m sure there are also many on this board for whom the fire has never gone out and therefore find this hard to fathom. But it happens to runners at all levels. I followed Mary from her early days at Bronxville and am a big fan.

rojo wrote:

Les wrote:

Unfortunately not possible to upload pics on Letsrun forum)

Not true.

Just paste the link.

Here is one of me and weldon and tracksmith founder Matt Taylor.

https://www.letsrun.com/photos/2008/pumaparty/thumbnails/tn08_04PUMA026.JPG

Yes, but what if the photo is not hosted on a website? What if it has just been downloaded to a device? Can't upload just the photo to Letsrun. On other forums I go to you can upload unhosted photos.

You forfeit your childhood protections when you turn pro, as Cain did, in any sport in any country. Cain cannot go back to the innocence of her pre-pro days. She made the choice. No one forced her to turn pro. There is upside and downside to turning pro at a young age. Unfortunately for Cain there has been more downside to date. Her window hasn't closed, but if she continues like this for the next two years it's probably over.

stateezee wrote:

He needs to have a chance wrote:

Because it isn't a Championship year the year Jakob is 17. I think most would agree he has done a bit better if you want to actually draw a comparison using relative performances.

Nah

Jakob thrashed a senior field including the Olympic Champ, set age group World Record and then doubled with medals against more seniors at the World Junior.

That's better than a lowly 10th.

He Hey Hey Goodbye wrote:

stateezee wrote:

Nah

Jakob thrashed a senior field including the Olympic Champ, set age group World Record and then doubled with medals against more seniors at the World Junior.

That's better than a lowly 10th.

"Thrashed a senior field"? He finished 4th in that race. 9 people beat Centro in a single race this past weekend alone, so many can lay title to having beaten the Olympic Champ. Centro didn't even make it out of prelims at Worlds last year. So, no, beating him in a mile is not better than a "lowly 10th" at the World Championship, and Jakob hasn't accomplished more than Cain to this point in his career. She also set an age group world record, actually WON world juniors, and beat senior world champions.

Able like wrote:

Being an Olympian is no guarantee that you can coach. And when she was in hs living in ny she was coached by Salazar and this guy simply held the stop watch.

He may be a good coach for 57 min 10k guys looking to get under 50 and just need some basic structure to his training but he has nothing to show that he can coach her

Having this 3k as her 1st race in almost 2 years was a huge coaching blunder and shows clearly he does not know what he is doing

Maybe it's what Mary wanted to do. And Henwood figured that Mary needed to find out for herself where she is at right now.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Nobody here gets it wrote:

She should be racing 800s and then slowly move up in distance as her fitness and form returns. Essentially bad coaching to have her racing 3000 m.

800's, yes. Moving up, hell no. What was she/her coach/anyone else even thinking?

She has ran 1:59 at 800. 8:58 is nothing compared to that, and she's not even in shape to hold 8:58 pace a third of the way. Not her event at all.

I bet she can hold sub 2 pace for 266 meters, easy.

Agree.

I've posted several times over the years that she is an 800 runner. 1:59 in HS is pretty good. Its the GOAT, iirc..

Get back to your roots, girl.

GO KIWI!!!

stateezee wrote:

He Hey Hey Goodbye wrote:

Jakob thrashed a senior field including the Olympic Champ, set age group World Record and then doubled with medals against more seniors at the World Junior.

That's better than a lowly 10th.

"Thrashed a senior field"? He finished 4th in that race. 9 people beat Centro in a single race this past weekend alone, so many can lay title to having beaten the Olympic Champ. Centro didn't even make it out of prelims at Worlds last year. So, no, beating him in a mile is not better than a "lowly 10th" at the World Championship, and Jakob hasn't accomplished more than Cain to this point in his career. She also set an age group world record, actually WON world juniors, and beat senior world champions.

Stop it. Jakob all the way.