If Canova's thread written post-2009 Rotterdam is anything to go by, Americans just don't train like Kenyans.
If Canova's thread written post-2009 Rotterdam is anything to go by, Americans just don't train like Kenyans.
Someone Chinese guy won a small marathon in China running 2:27ish and the nation has gone crazy. News on the medias titled "The winner who has beaten the Africans". in comparison, Americans ain't too bad.
when I took my first coaching course in 1976 they taught us about a thing called the Pyramid Theory of sports development. this theory says, basically, that the broader the base of the pyramid, represented by the grassroots level of entry to the sport, kids who play the sport for fun, the higher the peak of the pyramid represented by your national team's performance on the world stage. broader base, higher peak. now hold that thought.
the single most important reason that standards have dropped is because kids are not encouraged to enter a sport where the route to success requires them to cheat. would you willingly enter a sport where the only way to win was to cheat?
as a result of the persistence of drug taking in our sport, no one believes in honesty or integrity anymore, we are a legion of cynics who doubt that success can be achieved without chemical assistance. when Frank Shorter won the Olympic marathon in 1972 there was a feint chance that some of his competitors had taken something. today, it is pretty much assumed that at least half of the competitors in every event have taken something at some point in their career and no one is really sure who to trust or who to applaud.
the drugs cheats are not just cheating on themselves or on their fellow competitors they are cheating on generations of athletes who have not even been born because drugs are the poison that is ruining this sport from within. do you recall that Shalane Flanagan and Meb Keflizighi weren't sure whether it was okay to applaud Galen Rupp's win in Chicago? that uncertainty is the poison that drugs have brought to our sport. in this week's Fukuoka marathon, Sondre Moen runs 2:05:48, a European record, and the first repsonse from LRC is that it can't be real, he must have cheated.
the Nike Oregon Project was started to rejuvenate American distance running but today many fans doubt that anything they have done is legitimate. as a nation you cannot even celebrate your own success because the drugs the athletes take have curdled the minds of their fans to the point where they no longer know who or what to believe.
this week in Lausanne, Switzerland the IOC are debating whether Russia should participate in the Winter Olympics. that there is a debate is the problem. there should be no debate about this. drugs cheats should be banned for life with no exceptions. national organising bodies that will not comply should be ostracised. Russia should be banned from all international sports for ten years and they should not be readmitted until they 1) admit that they have done wrong. 2) show a genuine willingness to mend their ways and comply with all international standards and rules. 3) properly punish those responsible by banning them, for life, from further participation in sports in any capacity at any level.
when that happens more folks will be encouraged to enter the sport, the base of the pyramid will broaden and the peak of the pyramid will rise, not just in America but across the world.
Five is the magic number wrote:
3 and 5 are the magic numbers here.
5 seems to be the magic number to Americans.
Americans are all training to hold 5 minute miles for as long as possible.
5 minutes per mile equates to 2:11.
Hence they all end up in the 2:10-2:12 range.
(Depending on either surging or fading in the last miles).
Most of the rest of the world is training to do 3 minutes per kilometer.
3 minutes per kilometer equates to 2:07.
And 3 minutes per kilometer prefigures results in the 2:06-2:08.
Furthermore: Logging training in kilometers gives much higher weekly numbers.
Another psychological "trick" to boost body chemistry etc.
Just reset their GPS-watches to kilometers and their training logs to and the results will come.
Bonus thought: Actually, this would make for a good study, ask half of the American 2:12s to reset as suggested above, and the other half to continue as a control group - then give them two-three years before evaluating.
I have actually wondered how round numbers affect runner psychologically. It should be irrellevant, but just think about how people strive to reach (completely arbitrary) goals in different distances. I'm talking about the 4min mile, 30min 10K, 2hr marathon etc. Or for hobbyjoggers, the 3hr marathon. Take a look at the density of runners ending up around the 3hr mark of any marathon. It might be a coincidence, but it seems you're onto something.
Elephant in the room wrote:
If Canova's thread written post-2009 Rotterdam is anything to go by, Americans just don't train like Kenyans.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2959804
I seem to remember Renato writing something about how the Kenyan children play like Western children did in the 60's and 70's.
Kids were more active and I think for that reason we (they) were able to handle more mileage in high school.
I was never a great runner, but I was decent enough.
I was in 7th and 8th grade running 5-7 miles no problem.
45 years later at the same school they rarely (if ever) run more than 3.
In the 1980's we went through a Runner's World induced low mileage period.
That destroyed American distance running for a while.
One key- get your kids out to play- run around, get tired.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
They are doing something wrong that's for sure. Look at guys like Ron Hill and Charlie Spedding. They couldn't break 28 but went well under 2:10
I don't think they race enough as these guys racef a lot more regularly.
Charlie Spedding wrote in his book that people always asked him about technique, diet drinking but nobody asks him how he trained
I agree with this- top runners used to race more- road races (to pick up some under the table cash back in the day) and track races.
They wanted the competition to push them AND they could use a low key road race as a kind of tempo run and get some money in the deal.
BillCarr wrote:
Greg Meyer raced 10 times between Jan 1 and Boston when he won in 1983. Races included Gasparilla and a 30k in Japan (1:31) but also a mile, indoor 3k and 5k, and Cherry Blossom (46:13).
That's a big part of the problem.
WhereAreThey wrote:
Why does it seem like a superhuman feat for an American man to break 2:10 in the marathon?
So many African runners do it every year. Over 150 Japanese men have done it. But in all of recorded history, less than 50 American (natural born or otherwise) men have broken 2:10. What is this magical barrier? Does no one know how to coach the marathon in the US? Are American marathoners the cleanest group of athletes in all sport?
Some sheep farmer from Wales just ran 2:09. Well done to him but why can these super elite, super funded like BTC produce better marathoners? What is 2:12?
BUMP
Stupid wins wrote:
FightFor15 wrote:
The km v mile splits is interesting. I also have to agree with American runners choosing to do NYC & Boston every year. In a recent interview, Shalane said she is at peace with her PR but wants a major marathon win which is why she chose NY this year and why she will go back to Boston in the spring. We've built up these races so much that the 2:11-2:15 guys & the high-2:20s/low-2:30s women will also run these races to try to finish in the top-10. I think we would have also seen some faster times by now if the 2016 trials were held somewhere else with better weather. The 2012 trials seemed to be a step forward and in 2016 we went to tighter standards because that'll make the times better- good weather will make the times better. Who cares if the standard was 2:19 or even 2:22 if the weather was good? Only 14 broke 2:18 at the 2016 Trials, while 41 broke 2:18 in 2012. And I love races like Twin Cities, which has hosted to US Marathon Champs in recent years, but it'll be interesting to see if CIM produces some faster times in December.
Shalane will not win a major marathon, she had her shot and it didn't happen. She goes to NYC and Boston ( Boston does multi year deals ) for the appearance money. She will finish high enough to get good prize money as well.
PR value very high as she will be touted as the top American unless Jordan runs races this spring.
The tighter standards are a joke in athlete development. Why not open up the fields and give some incentive for athletes on the edge to continue training. There is no logical reason except the elitism coming from the LDR chair.
We coach to 2:12 mediocrity and athletes have accepted to race to be the top american.
Didn't age well