Sub 1:10 Half Marathon Training

reed wrote:

I don't think it matters if he's racing a 5k or a half.

Well this is clearly false - it matters A LOT. The extra 10 miles will obviously matter - training and tapering for a 5K and half marathon are much different.

Here are the last few workouts leading up to my last HM. I'm pretty new to the HM distance it was my first time running one trained.

8 days out - 14 at about M+20s

6 days out - 9 mile progression starting very easy finishing at LT.

4 day outs- 4x1600 at goal pace.

Most of my training in the past was for 1500. Three moderate quality days prior to a race always worked well. It didn't here. I felt great at first, but after 6 miles I could tell I was going to crash and burn if I didn't back off. I ran about 1:13, maybe 1min slower than I was capable of in the conditions on that course. Individually those workouts are all either shorter or slower than I would normally do, but combined maybe was too much too close to race day. Of course I could have also just misjudged my fitness. Would welcome opinions.

another runner wrote:

Some people run well off of putting a little extra work in their legs. I know that Josh McDougal ran over 100 miles the week he won the indoor NCAAs 5K. His explanation was that tapering didn't work for him and made him feel tired. Steve Magness has a good chapter about putting more or less tension in athletes legs during a taper because some can't handle the drop in work. Everyone reacts differently to training but this is especially noticeable in the last few weeks of a training cycle. While I would never personally do 6x1600, I agree with Ben on this one. The only way he can find out what type of taper works best for him is by trying different things.

These types of examples are really the exception rather than the rule. Josh McDougal was also a high mileage guy. Regardless, this thread has gotten spicy! I'm looking forward to seeing the race results this weekend.

I'm 10 weeks out from my half so it's time to buckle down and get in some quality workouts. Fortunately, the east coast is going to thaw out this week.

I hit 70 miles last week with a lot of treadmill running and one interval (5k-10k pace) workout. I have planned another interval workout this week, an 8 mile tempo run, and a long run. Hopefully I'll hit 75 miles for the week.

HahaRiiiiiiight wrote:

reed wrote:

I don't think it matters if he's racing a 5k or a half.

Well this is clearly false - it matters A LOT. The extra 10 miles will obviously matter - training and tapering for a 5K and half marathon are much different.

Please explain how tapering for a 5k vs a half marathon are different. When I'm tapered for any race, I usually feel like I'd run well at a range of distances, not just the distance I'm racing.

you also took that quote out of context. I only was talking about tapering, not training. I don't really consider anything you do in the week of a race to be training.

reed wrote:

HahaRiiiiiiight wrote:

Well this is clearly false - it matters A LOT. The extra 10 miles will obviously matter - training and tapering for a 5K and half marathon are much different.

Please explain how tapering for a 5k vs a half marathon are different. When I'm tapered for any race, I usually feel like I'd run well at a range of distances, not just the distance I'm racing.

you also took that quote out of context. I only was talking about tapering, not training. I don't really consider anything you do in the week of a race to be training.

Gojallout nails it above when he says, "With 5k, you can run ok with workouts close when not drop training but half marathon is different challenge. Volume of training is high and you need to ease off further from race. Fatigue will be bigger factor than 5k and you need to adjust for this." I'll add, fatigue will be a much bigger factor so you will need a bigger taper - just like you typically need an even bigger taper for a full marathon.

All that said I realize that tapering is somewhat of an individual preference and some people run better with no taper at all. This Ben guy seems like he knows his training and is pretty experienced - albeit at shorter distances - guess we'll find out if his approach works or not...

The way we've all argued about this, one would think that this one workout is going to be the difference between me running 1:08 and 1:14. My whole point with this is that the first 9 weeks of my 10 week training plan are going to determine how well I race this Sunday.

If I race well, it will be because I planned the training well, followed through with it, I was diligent with all of my ancillary work, I was eating right, and I was sleeping plenty. If I race very poorly, either some of the principles in my training plan were terribly wrong or I get very sick. If I'm just a little off and it becomes apparent that I show up to the race a little bit overcooked, I'd bet that it has more to do with crushing my training a little bit too much 2-4 weeks out rather than running 2-3 extra LT 1600's than people think I should tomorrow.

Right now, I'm 100% healthy, no aches or pains, breathing is completely normal, and my running feels more economical than it ever has. This week will be my lightest workload since week 2 or 3 of my training plan. I planned for plenty of recovery after my hardest training segment, and I have zero issues (mentally or physically) getting out the door to get in my training. That won't change after tomorrow's workout, considering that's the easiest weekly interval/LT workout that I'll have had since week 2.

I'm definitely a young and inexperienced coach, but nobody here should take it offensively if I don't follow your advice for this last workout. Remember that we're on an anonymous message board, so I choose to take everything I read on here with a grain of salt if you're choosing to remain anonymous. I've been learning from and working for several phenomenal coaches that I can see and hear and know 100% that they have credibility and experience.

And 2:14 and 2:18 maraton runners who are not anonymous and widely known.

Are there a lot of elites that advocate for that much quality in a race week workout? I've been following along this thread and I've run with some pros in my area (I'm not there but on easy runs and workouts running ahead/behind each other). 2:13-2:16 marathoners who have are week of a half/marathon go with the kind of workout Smoove laid out- 5 x 1k, 3 x mile, 4 x 1200, all at a threshold type pace.

I don't think it matters much because you're doing (or you did?) basically double that but kept the pace in the same range. It's the difference of 6 miles versus 3 at faster than half marathon pace. You're young and fit so you'll probably be ready to go. I've always liked doing 3 miles of quality the week of a big race and leaving that workout feeling like it was easy and I could have done much more when my workouts usually range from 6-10 miles of work in the build-up.

01/01-01/07:

M: 10 miles @ 7:13 pace

T: 2-mile warm-up, 5x1K @ 5K pace (~3:04-3:05) w/2:30 rest + 4x200 @ mile pace w/200m jog rest, 3-mile cool down. Splits: 3:05, 3:06, 3:06, 3:04, 3:01, 32, 32, 33, 32 (200s were into a tailwind). Total: 8.5 miles

W: 10 miles @ 7:05 pace (a bit too fast)

Th: 2-mile warm-up, 8x600 @ 5K pace (~1:51) w/1:30 rest + 2x200 @ mike pace w/200m jog, 3-mile cool down. Splits: 1:51, 1:51, 1:51, 1:51, 1:53, 1:52, 1:51, 1:51, 32, 32. Total: 8 miles

F: 8 miles @ 7:15 pace

Sa: 13 miles @ 6:49 pace

Su: 8 miles @ 7:10 pace

Weekly total: 65.5 miles

01/08-01/14

M: 10 miles @ 7:13 pace

T: 2-mile warm-up, 3x1 mile @ HM goal pace + 4x200m @ mile pace w/200m jog rest, 2-mile warm-up. Splits: 5:20, 5:20, 5:21, 33, 34, 34, 34. Last workout beforenthe race! I felt ok, but I’ve felt better on longer and harder workouts. Not worried though, I’ll just roll, sleep, and hydrate. At this point, I’ve done all I could to give myself a shot Sunday.

Rest of the week:

W: 10 miles

Th: 9 miles

F: 8 miles

Sa: 6-7 miles

Su: H A L F M A R A T H O N !

Striders post run for the rest of the week to stay loose.

I’m not sure if I’ll post again until Sunday, but if I don’t, thank you everyone for these past 11 weeks. It’s been great reading your posts, getting feedback, and seeing how other people of different fitness’s and backgrounds attack the same distance. Posting here gave me extra motivation to get out of the door some days when I really didn’t want to, and for that I’m thankful! Best of luck to everyone this Sunday!

Nice work on your training, dude! Best wishes to you and Smoove this Sunday.

SoFlo Runs - looks like you are ready to go. My only question is about the remaining volume for your week - it seems a bit on the high side. I did my last track session last night (4 x 1200 at 3:50-4:00), and I think the rest of my week will look something like an 8 miler tonight, 6 tomorrow with some strides, either 0, 4 or 6 on Friday (travel day), then 4 on Saturday. My volume was a bit higher than yours last week (73 miles), and I front-loaded my week some (22 miles total yesterday and Monday), so out total volume will probably be similar this week, but I wonder if that is the optimal mileage for you for this last little stretch. Is that your typical pre-race week?

Ben, if you notice the name William on the bib of one of the older looking guys in the corral, say hello.

Good luck SoFlo, and everyone else here racing Houston. This has turned into a pretty good thread with some actual training talk from quality posters. No trolls , politics, or senseless arguments derailing things. Rare on LRC these days.

For the record, I had a typo in there - my 1200s were at 3:59-4:00, not 3:50-4:00.

I had been meaning to post in this thread for the last month but have been demotivated about running I've mostly avoided running sites.

Background: Started running in ~2011 age 25, ran 3:09 that Fall and worked down to 2:28:53 in Berlin 2016. In 2017 I trained harder than ever, averaging 100 mpw for the entire year with 3 weeks at 120. The demotivation stems from the fact that I raced the Dallas marathon in December trying to win and blew up, running 2:31 (~1:12:xx + 1:19). So I walked away from my hardest training season without anything to show for it.

I've broken under 15:30 in the 5k (road) last spring and my half PR is just 1:12:28, so I'm relatively confident of a PR in Houston but not sure where I'll end up.

Here's my training since Dallas (value 2017's 5000 miles and marathon training however you will):

Dec 10 (Marathon - 2:31)

Dec 11-17 (43 miles)

- Saturday 10 mile progression ending at 5:20, ~5:50 for the last 6 miles.

Dec 18-24 (67 miles)

- Monday 6x1:00 (5:00 pace) + 4x200 fast

- Thursday road 5K 16:09 (5:03, 5:11, 5:21)

- Saturday 20 (6:40 avg) with last 10 ~6:05/mi, last 3 miles ~5:35

Dec 25-31 (53 miles)

- Wednesday 16 (6:46 avg) with last 10 ~6:10/mi, last mile ~5:15

- Friday 4x4x1:00 (1:00 jog between & 2:00 jog between sets) average 4:5x/mi + 5x~32s 200s on the road

Jan 1-7 (57 miles)

- Tuesday 10 mile hard fartlek, building to a 5:2x mile 3 times, average 6:17/mi

- Friday 12x200 ish (roads) in 32-33s

- Saturday 15 @ 5:57 w/ attempted 6x1 mile @ 5:20 w/ 2:00 jog on the roads. 5:15, 5:19, 5:14, but the effort was too high and I had to stop for the bathroom. Long break then finished with 5:23, 5:21, 5:19. There was an extra half mile rep in there somewhere too.

This week (28 so far)

- Tuesday 4x progressions each ending in the 5:00-5:20 range, total 10.6 @ 6:08

Many of those workouts were on the treadmill (notably the 6xmile was not). Easy runs have mostly been 4-10 miles around 6:30 pace, not a lot of doubles. I recognize this doesn't provide much insight since it's totally unstructured but I'm kind of just trying to have fun with running right now - I'll decide in September if I want to make another go at higher miles.

I'm gonna look for you at the start line Smoove so hopefully we can run some together. Here's what my singlet will be:

https://i.imgur.com/2FOAxztl.jpg

Bib #20499 if the thread wants to track my eventual destruction!

Dufresne

You sure train pretty decently for somebody who is unmotivated...

Anyway...here's a tip: don't try to win the race this time around. not even the women's race!

Looks like Ben Barrows proved all the haters wrong today with the sub 1:07.

Meanwhile Smoove goes out hard and doesn't break 1:11

1:06:55 for Ben Barrows!

Great job sir! It was cool seeing you on camera with the lead women for most of the race. If only you'd of modified that race week workout like everyone said right? Might have gone sub-1:05!

Major props to Ben Barrows. Fantastic race!

How did the other guys on this thread do?

I ran 1:10:5x, but curiously my bib didn't get picked up on the finishing mat so I'm listed as DNF.

Met Smoove at the start, great guy. Didn't get a good warm-up so I took the first mile easy (5:30) then ran ~5:21 through 10k. After that I knew sub-1:10 wasn't gonna happen so I tried my best to stay under 5:30 to break under 1:11.

Another LRC poster ran low 1:10s.