Is Said Aouita the greatest villain in track and field history?

Gert Fredriksson wrote:

What cross country race did Aouita beat Lopes in?

On ARRS, it says Aouita and Lopes have never raced against each other.

In december 1982 at the Jean Bouin Memorial in Marseille. For old races, ARRS is not very complete.

Aouita in '81 and '82 also has victorys in XC over most of the best french long distance runners at the time like Pierre Levisse, Jacky Boxberger, Dominique Chauvelier, Paul Arpin, Jean Louis Prianon, Joseph Mahmoud, Bruno LeStum and also over Emile Puttemans.

Some important footnotes should be added to this.

Spivey was younger than Aouita, and he didn't finish in the top 3 in those games. Second was a Yugoslav who doesn't even have his own Wikipedia page, and 3rd was an Algerian who finished his career with pbs of 3:36 and 3:57.

Aouita's best time in 1982 came when he finished second to Sydney Maree by over 2 seconds.

Interesting that his one notable win over world class runners before 83 came in Firenze. No wonder he decided to move to Italy that winter.

I'm not sure saying that Aouita 'might have been able to run 3:35 in 82 at 23' fully explains a progression where Aouita does run 3:29 at age 26 after having moved up to the 5000m and according to Aouita himself, capable of running 3:26 'with the right race'. At least the 'parasites' excuse might be somewhat convincing in the unlikely event of being true.

You're a good guy but.... wrote:

Dropping from 1348 at 20 to 12:58 at 27 is quite a drop. Said's drops from 20 to his peak were far larger than Mo's and he is suspected on LRC.

When he ran this 13:48.5, he was 18 or 19, and when he became the first under 13 minutes, he was 26 or 27 (I think his year of birth is not clear, for some years it was mainly listed as 1960 I think, but later it was changed to 1959). According to Coedeppe, Aouita - for sure - has changed his year of birth... Coedeppe exactly knows this, since he never puts questionmarks behind someting like this.

Mo Farah started his career much earlier than Aouita, who ran his 13:48.5 in his first serious track season. There was little to no running scene at the time in Morocco.

Andrew Wheating ran 3:45 at 19, 3:38 (with a huge kick) at 20, and 3:30 at 22.

zxcvzxcvvcxz wrote:

Andrew Wheating ran 3:45 at 19, 3:38 (with a huge kick) at 20, and 3:30 at 22.

What has this got to do with anything?

said88 wrote:

You're a good guy but.... wrote:

Dropping from 1348 at 20 to 12:58 at 27 is quite a drop. Said's drops from 20 to his peak were far larger than Mo's and he is suspected on LRC.

When he ran this 13:48.5, he was 18 or 19, and when he became the first under 13 minutes, he was 26 or 27 (I think his year of birth is not clear, for some years it was mainly listed as 1960 I think, but later it was changed to 1959). According to Coedeppe, Aouita - for sure - has changed his year of birth... Coedeppe exactly knows this, since he never puts questionmarks behind someting like this.

Mo Farah started his career much earlier than Aouita, who ran his 13:48.5 in his first serious track season. There was little to no running scene at the time in Morocco.

The fact that his date of birth was changed is itself suspcious don't you think Said69? It's as though Aouita lied and was later caught out about his age. Not only the first African doper, but the first African age cheat as well?

Keep on pointing out how Aouita's times didn't progress from 1979 to 1982. Only a complete moron thinks this is in some way making a case that his progression wasn't deeply suspicious.

If you look back just to the previous page on this thread, it's clear I was trying to soften my stance on Aouita. Then you decide to steamroll back in resorting to childish name calling again. What a 'good man' you are. Aouita could be found guilty of PED use, ISIS membership, murder, and animal cruelty, and he'd still likely be your hero who you'd defend to the death.

People weren't sure about Miruts Yifter's age as well.

Aouita :

Chased out of Australian coaching role after being accused by multiple top athletes of pressurising them to take PEDs, particularly HGH which he allegedly believed was essential to success.

Despite being a student at the elite French National Sporting Academy until 22, barely progressed if at all until age 23 and a move to Italy where he almost overnight turns from a B circuit runner into a world elite at 800 to 5000. At the same time, starts spending time in the USA where HGH has just become available and is leading to a remarkable improvement in sprint and 800m times for American based athletes.

Claimed to have ran a 3:40 1500m at 18 in plimsolls in his first ever run. Claimed his complete lack of progression after 5 years of elite training g on 'parasites'.

Very secretive about training methods. Was self-coached. Claims to have discovered 'secret methods' that turned him from a 1:50/3:40/13:40 guy at 22 into a 1:44/3:30/13:00 guy at 23. Despite this, all his subsequent coaching roles were disasters.

Employed numerous doctors. He had more doctors than coaches. One of them, the Belgian George Moutons, was subsequently arrested for supplying dozens of cyclists and runners with EPO.

Lied on his application for the Australian coaching role. Claimed falsely to have coached El G and been fully responsible for his success. El G's real coach didn't like that.

Dubious date of birth. Originally born in 1959, later 1960 so he was the same age as rival Cram.

Known for being 100% financially motivated. An egoist and volatile, he felt overshadowed by Ben Johnson and Carl Lewis at Seoul so made the absurd boast that he was going to win the 800, 1500, and 5000m. He finished with a bronze in the 800, only his second middle-distance medal (his other also a bronze from Helsinki in the 1500m).

First Moroccan great, a country now known as one of the dirtiest doping cultures on Earth.

Avoided the Brits and any serious rivals at all times. Admitted the 1500 was his favorite event, but ran the 5000 in championships as it was easier to win. Carefully cultivated his 'most extraordinary range in bistory' myth. In fact, his range came from avoiding rivals and likely blood doping. He is the only 5000m runner in history to spend an entire season training for the 800m. When he ran his 800m pb, he never ran a 5000m that season. In the year he ran his 10000 pb, he never ran a 800m that season. Compare with Steve Ovett, who beat peak Henry Rono over 2 miles and setting a new world record in the process, only weeks after running his lifetime 800m pb (in losing only to doper Beyer, but beating Coe convincingly). In 1980, Ovett would be favored to medal in 800, 1500, or 5000m. Aouita would never have a year at the top of all 3 events.

Forgot to mention - it's a little known fact that the Diamond League (and it's predecessor the Golden League) was created directly as a response to Aouita refusing to race his rivals.

Aouita's two great contributions to athletics are African doping and the Diamond League.

Your weekly Kenyan busts didn't materialize so now you are resurrecting 3 year old threads with your usual copy-paste?

Whatever makes you happy :)