TeaBagginNoMore wrote:
She should be sued by every sponsor and race that gave her money to get their money back and criminally charged as well as every agent and coach making money off her and her performances.
I don't know why the IAAF and WADA are afraid to go to that length when people are caught like this?
Because even when they win in court the whole sport loose in terms of PR. Imagine an MMA fighter suing a teenage girl for beating him up in the streets.
What's different is that the pool of distance runners in Kenya is bigger than in the USA, because of lifestyle. Given even lesser doping they do more with it simply because there are more people ready to respond. The situation is reversed in sprinting. Has there been a clean US medalist since the 1970s?
The judge is going to ask corporate sponsor, " are you too stupid to know your athlete cheats?" . Being complicit is a big detriment to going to court.
Peter Andersson wrote:
TeaBagginNoMore wrote:She should be sued by every sponsor and race that gave her money to get their money back and criminally charged as well as every agent and coach making money off her and her performances.
I don't know why the IAAF and WADA are afraid to go to that length when people are caught like this?
Because even when they win in court the whole sport loose in terms of PR. Imagine an MMA fighter suing a teenage girl for beating him up in the streets.
Oh Kenya wrote:
Just heard on BBC Kenyan Sumgong tests positive.
My only problem with this is that these tests are out of competition tests, and even if an athlete tests positive, it does not prove that it was in their system when they were racing. ..So sponsors cannot put in a claim to have the winning prizes returned, and the runner will not be stripped of previous titles.
It's not like they retested samples from a previous race...
This just goes to show how truly amazing of an athlete that Paula was. Here we have a Kenyan who was on EPO who couldn't come close to Paula's absolutely clean times.
Simply remarkable. Britain's athletes are the finest in the world.
You are right. And it also confirms that the Brojos have a good ability to assess when people are lying to their faces. While Sumgong lied and the Brojos believed her at first, they were willing to look at other evidence (ie: the positive sample) and re-evaluate their position, and come to the conclusion that Sumgong was indeed lying.Likewise, they've always believed Paula's story about being clean. When others have said Paula was lying, the Brojos looked at the evidence and were able to conclude that Paula was not in fact lying to them, and they were right.Kudos to Brojos, kudos to Paula.Mega-kudos to Britain. Boo-hiss on Kenya.
Rule Britannia wrote:
This just goes to show how truly amazing of an athlete that Paula was. Here we have a Kenyan who was on EPO who couldn't come close to Paula's absolutely clean times.
Simply remarkable. Britain's athletes are the finest in the world.
"So it's ok to literally have a pair of testicles that produce make amounts of testosterone, but it ok to use epo? Ok, got it. Clear as mud"
______________________________________________________________________
I think you meant to say 'Not" ok to use epo ?!?
Nevertheless, you make an excellent point. The double standard of hypocrisy is astonishing. The whole thing is a drug fueled, money laundering political mess! Athletes being used as whores and tools to generate betting income and sponsorship deals via Diamond League and training group arrangements. Most of the time some of these guys don't even know they're being fed the stuff by their core group of trainers who get a chunk of the profits from major road and track wins. Tyson Gay's inner circle used him like a doped horse - He's didn't have a clue! And even if he suspected it what's he gonna do - carry around a chem set testing his blood and piss ever 24 hours?!?!?! These athletes need [a testing system that advocates for their protection] and watches their backs from the 'Dope Slippers' - "Here drink from this bottle! - Don't ask any questions, it will make you run faster and If you don't like it, we'll take your sponsorship from you fool!" They are nothing more than "Training Pimps" cashing in of the talent of naive athletes. In an economy like Kenya's, what else you gonna do? There is no plan 'B' - play the fu£#cking game or suffer..... its all bull$hit!!!!!
If Eliud Kipchoge ends up being dirty, I will have to stop watching races.
TeaBagginNoMore wrote:
I will not return as a fan to the sport until they start taking such measures. I have absolutely zero interest in professional sports from now on.
Professional distance running has a long history & culture of doping...nothing new there. And I'm glad NFL fans don't have your attitude toward professional sports.
Very bad news to wake up to. Can't help wondering more about some amateurs in the older age groups too, some of the M50 road times these days are ridiculous. They don't even pretend to do heavy miles either, all off 30mpw.
Blurrrrrrr...... wrote:
"So it's ok to literally have a pair of testicles that produce make amounts of testosterone, but it ok to use epo? Ok, got it. Clear as mud"
______________________________________________________________________
I think you meant to say 'Not" ok to use epo ?!?
Nevertheless, you make an excellent point. The double standard of hypocrisy is astonishing. The whole thing is a drug fueled, money laundering political mess! Athletes being used as whores and tools to generate betting income and sponsorship deals via Diamond League and training group arrangements. Most of the time some of these guys don't even know they're being fed the stuff by their core group of trainers who get a chunk of the profits from major road and track wins. Tyson Gay's inner circle used him like a doped horse - He's didn't have a clue! And even if he suspected it what's he gonna do - carry around a chem set testing his blood and piss ever 24 hours?!?!?! These athletes need [a testing system that advocates for their protection] and watches their backs from the 'Dope Slippers' - "Here drink from this bottle! - Don't ask any questions, it will make you run faster and If you don't like it, we'll take your sponsorship from you fool!" They are nothing more than "Training Pimps" cashing in of the talent of naive athletes. In an economy like Kenya's, what else you gonna do? There is no plan 'B' - play the fu£#cking game or suffer..... its all bull$hit!!!!!
You covered all the important points. Its a racket for sure.
My comments and intuitions about EPO are generally directed at men's performances, in large part, because I think the women should already be running much faster, but lack the critical mass necessary to bring the right group of runners quickly enough to 30K to make the fast times possible, and can generally get away with running tactical races with slow starts.It is not necessary for a woman to take EPO to run a 2:20:41 (ranks 28th best woman, 44th best performance).Just the same, I am disappointed seeing this news. I hope we find out the source.
Mr. Obvious wrote:
No issues. I'm sure Rekrunner will be along soon to explain how it doesn't work.
most of the top names were doped
gebresellasie and bekele were doped all along
This is not me. Note the spelling.
rekrunner wrote:
My comments and intuitions about EPO are generally directed at men's performances, in large part, because I think the women should already be running much faster, but lack the critical mass necessary to bring the right group of runners quickly enough to 30K to make the fast times possible, and can generally get away with running tactical races with slow starts.
It is not necessary for a woman to take EPO to run a 2:20:41 (ranks 28th best woman, 44th best performance).
Just the same, I am disappointed seeing this news. I hope we find out the source.
damana wrote:
If Eliud Kipchoge ends up being dirty, I will have to stop watching races.
Dude, he probably is dirty.
ITBSIP
What does this mean?? They keep repeating it in the text
rekrunner wrote:
My comments and intuitions about EPO are generally directed at men's performances, in large part, because I think the women should already be running much faster, but lack the critical mass necessary to bring the right group of runners quickly enough to 30K to make the fast times possible, and can generally get away with running tactical races with slow starts.
It is not necessary for a woman to take EPO to run a 2:20:41 (ranks 28th best woman, 44th best performance).
Just the same, I am disappointed seeing this news. I hope we find out the source.
Mr. Obvious wrote:No issues. I'm sure Rekrunner will be along soon to explain how it doesn't work.
Rekrunner is so gullible.
Barakus Obama wrote:
ITBSIP
What does this mean?? They keep repeating it in the text
If the b sample is positive.
Jeff Wigand wrote:
Most play by the rules. I would guess that most of the people in your job don't steal from the company.
My company doesn't encourage employees to steal and my field doesn't make it nearly impossible to succeed without cheating. Our auditors, furthermore, are independent and not incentivized to facilitate theft. And our local police force isn't a glorified PR firm.
Re: Rosa...... I've assumed, since I came across some of Paul Tergat's training under him that Tergat must have been doping, presumably with Rosa' knowledge/assistance, as the intensity would have been just too much to recover from otherwise.
Pulling some of Tergat's training out of two separate sources - both Jurg Wirz books (Running to the Limit / Run to Win), one of which listed his training, and the other which listed the speeds he trained it, it became apparent that if the recommended paces were right he was running at, or very close to, his marathon pace, on his general daily main run (so typically 70mins at close to marathon pace most days). Even without taking into consideration his effort sessions I couldn't see how anybody could go do that day after day.
I'm well aware that the books may not be 100% accurate, but Wirz seems to have been a close friend of Tergat, so the schedules and paces must be there or thereabouts right.
Here's a sample if you want to do see exactly what was involved:
Week 1 of 13 for London ('05 I think).
Mon: 70mins med-fast / 60mins slow-med.
Tues: 35km / 60mins slow-med.
Wed: 75mins med-fast / 60mins slow-med.
Thurs: as Monday.
Fri: as Monday.
Sat: 30mins up + 20 x 1'/1' fartlek / 60mins slow-med.
Sun: 70mins med-fast / 30mins up + 15 x 180-200m diagonals.
And corresponding paces from the other book:
Paces are based on LT. For guidance, his 10km pb was 2:39/km, his HM pb was 2:49/km. I know he wouldn't have been in peak shape at this stage, but effort is relative, so if we take LT as 2:50/km, just to pick a round number.
Fast = LT + 5% = 2:59/km.
Med = LT + 12% = 3:10/km.
Slow = LT + 25% = 3:33/km.
I don't see how that's doable without assistance.
The problem is that he was beaten by Haile, Haile is under Hermens, about whom there have been rumours floating around about for years, and he also counts Bekele, Kipchoge, Florence Kiplagat and Ayana in his stable.
The 5km/10km times that Haile/Bekele ran generally nobody gets near to. Ayana destroyed the field in Rio, and Kipchoge (as much as I hope he isn't doping as I love watching him race) has been around forever, and Hermens is quoted as saying he reckons Kimetto was doping previously because he is 'running shit now', which he attributed to him being off whatever he was on, so longevity in his eyes is linked to doping..........
There's always a possibility that if the right thread is pulled the whole thing collapses.........