Ayana 10,000 Meter WR!!! 29:17:46

Some points:

Marion Jones and Flo Jo competed their entire careers and never tested positive. Everyone and their mom knows they doped.

Do you think it's possible to beat FloJo 100M world record clean? (The answer should be H*LL NO!!!)

The era of passing a drug test indicating that you're clean is gone. At this point the testing is so broken, the only way I can justify someone is clean is my gut.

Paula Radcliffe : Passes the gut check.

Molly Huddle: Passes the gut check.

Alyson Felix: Passes the gut check.

All podium finishers in this race: Fail the gut check.

There is too much circumstantial evidence to suggest that Ethiopia and Kenya have major doping problems. Especially because they just ran times only doped runners have come close to...

I agreed with you until I saw Paula Radcliffe passed your gut check.

That's only because the 10000m is run before the 5000m.

Apply your logic to kenenisa bekele in marathon then.

You are basically saying that unless you pr in every race you are a fraud.

xcskier66 wrote:

zero percent chance of clean.

To be able to demolish the most doped distance record on the books... very, very, very unlikely.

It's 100% suspicious. We know the dibabas are dirty based on their coach getting caught.

It's 100% likely that this is a dirty record and gold.

This is how I envision these ungodly performances possibly being clean. I would bet my life Molly Huddle is clean. Can I see an African running way faster than her? Yes.

Also, I've always said if you believe 14:11s are clean than 29:30 is doable.

xcskier66 wrote:

Some points:

Marion Jones and Flo Jo competed their entire careers and never tested positive. Everyone and their mom knows they doped.

Do you think it's possible to beat FloJo 100M world record clean? (The answer should be H*LL NO!!!)

The era of passing a drug test indicating that you're clean is gone. At this point the testing is so broken, the only way I can justify someone is clean is my gut.

Paula Radcliffe : Passes the gut check.

Molly Huddle: Passes the gut check.

Alyson Felix: Passes the gut check.

All podium finishers in this race: Fail the gut check.

There is too much circumstantial evidence to suggest that Ethiopia and Kenya have major doping problems. Especially because they just ran times only doped runners have come close to...

Your gut check has a lot to do with the colour of the athlete. Aside from the fact there may be some genetic advantages, we shouldn't expect Europeans and North Americans to compete with top Kenyans and Ethiopians. This is their sport. There are 1000s hoping to fill Ayana's shoes at the next Olympics. There are only a handful of North American women willing to put in the work that it takes. There are too many other options if you are a slim, relatively slow (good ST fibres) First World woman (or man) for that matter. In Ethiopia, the best athletes run, so they get the best.

There is only one Rupp on this earth.

TRACK DESTROYED wrote:

an excellent performance in this case is 100% confirmation of doping, especially since she destroyed a Record by a known doper that no one has even come close to for decades.

Your logic: Dope is available. Dope helps people perform well. Ayana performed well. Therefore, Ayana doped.

To illustrate how baseless that argument is, here is an equivalent:

There are a lot of un-solved murders. People often commit murder out of vengeance or anger. You've been angry at some point in your life. Maybe you're a murderer?

An excellent performance is not evidence of doping. An excellent performance is not confirmation of doping.

I agree with that. I think we just treat this like cycling or some other sports. Its likely that a good portion of the very top performers are dirty. I just enjoy the race and hope for the best. Its hard to know who is a cheat and, unlike some on here and the guys who run the site, I don't profess to have a good gut check about who is clean or not. I do doubt Genzebe Dibaba after the Aden story so, to be honest, I would enjoy her race a lot less and may not even watch. I don't know anything about Ayana. She has great form and it was a brave run. It was great to see.

ethiopian wrote:

Just wanted to add that I am not being a blind patriot here. For example, I have difficulty now believing Genzebe is clean after the Jama Aden scandal. So just wanted to emphasis that Ayana has never been implicated in any scandal so far.

Never we finish to read attempts to justify this record with stupid arguments, because nobody was ready to think this performance possible.

Four months ago, we spoke with the husband and coach of Ayana, stimulating to prepare this event, that never tried before.

The WR of Wang Junxia was not an unbeatable WR. The analysis of the splits she used (15'05" + 14'26") clearly shows she had the possibility to run under 29'15" with a better pace, probably near 29' without all the competitions she ran in few days.

Somebody can say she was doped : yes, she was (also Chinese officials of that period confirmed me this doubt), but doping, in any case, can't give too much advantage in a competition of middle distance, absolutely no more than 20" (and I'm not sure of so much advantage if athletes train long time in altitude). Chinese athletes, for preparing National Games in 1993, spent a lot of time in Duoba (2400m) and Lijan (2300m), and I had personally the opportunity to see the improvement of some athlete, very much weaker than the Ma Group, after two following months of training in Duoba in 2014.

The fact is that the times of 10000m, both men and women, are OVERESTIMATED because very few times there are competitions organized for running fast in these distances, and NEVER there was one attempt against the WR of Wang Junxia by any athlete, like for example Tirunesh Dibaba at her best.

Today, everything was perfect, and I wrote in one Italian blog that there were a lot of chances Ayana (for me unbeatable) could improve the WR, after looking at the weather of the last two days.

This time, it was very easy for who lives athletics on daily basis, and knows very well the best athletes, to foresee the tactic of the race : Alice Aprot (this is how we normally call Nawowuna, who is one sister of Joseph Ebuya) Always is a front runner, she doesn't know any other option, and tries to push from the start for Killing all the other competitors. In this case, she could be the best rabbit for Ayana, in a situation that NEVER can be repeated again, because of course NEVER Alice can act as pacer of Ayana in a normal meeting.

So, perfect weather for a competition of 10000m, very good track, and perfect pace : everything, finally, ready for attacking the WR for the first time in 23 years.

I was in Utrecht in 2009, when I saw Meselech Melkamu, COMPLETELY ALONE (no rabbits) running 29'53" in front of Florence Kilpagat (30'11"), and there is no match between that Melkamu and the current Ayana.

The fact that Tirunesh Dibaba, now at 80% of the personal possibilities of 2008, was able to improve her PB of more than 10", clearly shows that she could have the opportunity to run under 29'30" in the past, if had the will to attack the old WR.

It's totally ridiculous to look at a short track (so we must wait times in 400m under 43"...), or at African doping (I'm totally sure all the best are clean).

Stop to try to explain every top performance with doping. When you see Ayana running today with the other athletes, you can't not have the feeling she is another type of RUNNING ANIMAL, a new extra-star that can born one time every 20 years.

When you see the level of improvement in all the PB in the race, you can't forget that this is the FIRST COMPETITION OF 10000m RUN FAST FROM THE START in the history of the event, and everybody could have advantage of this fact, at her own level.

Try sometimes to use the brain for analyzing what happens, not the belly.

But, of course, you need to know something about the athletic history, and this instead is something that the most part of posters completely don't know.

xcskier66 wrote:

Some points:

Marion Jones and Flo Jo competed their entire careers and never tested positive. Everyone and their mom knows they doped.

Do you think it's possible to beat FloJo 100M world record clean? (The answer should be H*LL NO!!!)

The era of passing a drug test indicating that you're clean is gone. At this point the testing is so broken, the only way I can justify someone is clean is my gut.

Paula Radcliffe : Passes the gut check.

Molly Huddle: Passes the gut check.

Alyson Felix: Passes the gut check.

All podium finishers in this race: Fail the gut check.

There is too much circumstantial evidence to suggest that Ethiopia and Kenya have major doping problems. Especially because they just ran times only doped runners have come close to...

Here we go. The every 4 year meltdown of white people is beginning, and it's just day 1 of the running. We know it's rough with black people winning gold medals in swimming and gymnastics now, in addition to the expected track and field. However, the sooner you accept the fact that black athletes dominate the sport of track and field, the more you will enjoy these games - or you could just watch archery and rowing.

PS. Did Lance Armstrong pass your gut check before he was busted?

the texas hammer wrote:

I see where someone else on here measured track at 400.18 meters using Google Earth. . I just measured and hot 397.45 meters. Anyone else take the time to measure? For comparison sake I measured my old high school track the same way and got 400.01.

I also got about 397m, but it's because they did a poor job of stitching together the aerial photos to create the image. You can see a joint on the front straight just after the 100m start and another on the first curve just after the start line, and the lanes don't match up well in either spot. The track looks to have a curve radius of 36.5m, which is the IAAF preferred standard.

xcskier66 wrote:

Some points:

Marion Jones and Flo Jo competed their entire careers and never tested positive. Everyone and their mom knows they doped.

Do you think it's possible to beat FloJo 100M world record clean? (The answer should be H*LL NO!!!)

The era of passing a drug test indicating that you're clean is gone. At this point the testing is so broken, the only way I can justify someone is clean is my gut.

Paula Radcliffe : Passes the gut check.

Molly Huddle: Passes the gut check.

Alyson Felix: Passes the gut check.

All podium finishers in this race: Fail the gut check.

There is too much circumstantial evidence to suggest that Ethiopia and Kenya have major doping problems. Especially because they just ran times only doped runners have come close to...

In Paavo Nurmi's time, Ben True, Eric Jenkins, and all of the best guys in America currently would be wildly suspected of doping if such substances were known to be readily available. Yet there they are, performing amazingly without a hint of suspicion. Because they're doping? Probably not. How, then? Better training techniques, perhaps more talent.

Are today's finishers necessarily clean? No, but they're not necessarily doped, either. It is VERY possible that they have exceptional talent [genetic gifts].

Considering that you're implying that multiple athletes doped to obtain their results today, I'm sure glad that at least some people (Radcliffe, Felix, etc.) passed the rigorous "gut check."

Whose gut you survey depends on whether they pass the gut check.

A "gut check" is not evidence for or against doping.

This race is the textbook example of an obvious outlier: record from previous doper smashed, and only suspect competitors getting within the ballpark of that time.

Would people here believe in the validity of the times if the men's 10,000 winner was in his 2nd 10,000 race ever and runs somewhere around 26:00 - 26:05??? No way.

Renato said:

"Somebody can say she was doped : yes, she was (also Chinese officials of that period confirmed me this doubt), but doping, in any case, can't give too much advantage in a competition of middle distance, absolutely no more than 20" (and I'm not sure of so much advantage if athletes train long time in altitude). "

Here Renato is admitting that world class runners training at altitude can gain an advantage from doping.

Thank you Renato.

D-Nice wrote:

atohitotsu wrote:

34 second PR for Huddle. I suspect a short track - how many women set PRs?

To short tracks really happen in major track events there days?

Getting the right length track is pretty basic science and engineering and you'd think it would be double checked a hundred times before it was laid down.

Yet, look at the diving pool fiasco. Maybe Rio could mess up the track.

haha, exactly what I was going to say. With all the news about people not getting paid...

Doctor Doper wrote:

when your child comes home with 100% mark on an exam do you immediately accuse them of cheating?

mamajo: "If rojo or wejo ever came home with 100%, they'd be sent out to chop cotton with the pickaninnies for cheating."

Fred, the best way for liying is to say only one piece of truth. This is exactly what you say, when don't explain my real thought, so I better explain :

"I don't think EPO can give advantages to athletes living and training ALWAYS in altitude, and in any case no more than 20" also for athletes training at sea level. So, maxiomum 20" for athletes training at sea level, and less than 20" fo somebody training in altitude cominbg from sea level (such as Chinese in 1993), BUT NO ADVANTAGE FOR ATHLETES LIKE AYANA, BORN, LIVING AND TRAINING ALWAYS IN ALTITUDE".

Now is my though more clear ?

Thank you Fred.

DC Wonk wrote:

This race is the textbook example of an obvious outlier: record from previous doper smashed, and only suspect competitors getting within the ballpark of that time.

Would people here believe in the validity of the times if the men's 10,000 winner was in his 2nd 10,000 race ever and runs somewhere around 26:00 - 26:05??? No way.

If they were already a world class 5000m runner? Yes.

Your PC bunk doesn't pass the smell test. Are you another self-deceptive, hypocritically racist troll from Hillel House or just a run of the mill hasbarat doing your best to attack the West in any way possible?

The African "dominance" didn't emerge until Dr. Rosa kicked things off by introducing EPO to the Kenyans, with Hermens following suit with the Ethiopians. Couple this with officials obviously allowing them to cheat and to avoid year round testing, and now the chickens hav obviously come home to roost.