Race wants prize money back

In late spring 2013 I sent 2 runners, a male and a female, to an adjoining state to race an event that billed itself as "XYZ Marathon and 1/2 Marathon" In several areas the race website stated XYZ Marathon and 1/2 Marathon pays 3 places to male and female winners. I recall the winner's payout was $1500 but do not remember the breakdown. Because the female had raced a marathon in the winter and the guy has a 5/10 focus they both raced the 13.1mi distance.

The first call I received on race morning was them letting me know they had both won. Soon after a got a call saying that the RD said there was no prize money for the 1/2- that the advertised money was for the marathon only. I immediately went to the website and made screenshots of the posted purse (yes, it was changed within the hour). I called the RD who put me in contact with another organizer who admitted the wording was poor and understood how we interpreted the purse. She agreed that the athletes were entitled to something but was unwilling to award the entire $1500. Before leaving town the athletes were promised "the committee" would get together the next week and come up with an amount to pay. The RD contacted me the following week stating that the athletes would each receive $500 for the misunderstanding. We felt this was unacceptable due to the misleading website but decided to be appreciative for what they did get and to move on.

Several emails and phone calls were required before the checks came in the mail. I will no longer suggest that an athlete I coach race in that city, in any race the RD is associated with, or that supports that particular charity organization.

The OP should not take any additional action or fret over any moral obligation. If the posted purse (website information) was paid (big check with big name) then it's on the RD.

were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas!

A mistake was made and the race directors effort to correct it/resolve it was obviously ham-handed. No question about it.

The moral dilemma is do you give back half of your purse because of their error or do you keep it because of greed or lack of integrity. From what I've read most posters are willing to throw their integrity out the window because of the unprofessional way the race director attempted to resolve the issue.

I don't see any winners here, just a sad bunch of losers.

I hope none of you ever find yourself in the position of the race director. If the race goes off without a hitch you'll be lucky to get a pat on the back. Something goes wrong you'll be castigated from here to eternity.

what you're saying. But we're all human and make mistakes. Why, when you find out that you weren't suppose to get what you thought you were entitled to, still feel entitled to it?

Sure, it might be a bitter pill to swallow but do you really want/need a few hundred bucks that badly that you'd take it away from a charity of some sort? You do realize that's where the funds will come from, right? Do you think the race organizers who are usually volunteers will reach into their pockets for the cash? Not very likely.

If, ifs and buts wrote:

I hope none of you ever find yourself in the position of the race director. If the race goes off without a hitch you'll be lucky to get a pat on the back. Something goes wrong you'll be castigated from here to eternity.

If you are a race director then I feel sorry for you. In this day and age of social media I witness bare minimum races put on and the masses of well meaning hobby joggers boasting on every social media outlet about how wonderful the race was and how fun it was and thanking the organizers. Sorry but I don't feel sorry for a race director who couldn't read his own website AND the GIANT CHECK then bullied the winner of his own race. If he made this mistake then guess what? He is in the wrong profession.

Hi Race Director!

judgemental much? Maybe look in the mirror first- do the right thing and pay the runners what was promised.

Nice move on changing the wording on the website after the fact.

i hope none of you encounter a race director as shady as this. definitely no integrity... just threats

Why does the race director feel "entitled" to threaten and to steal money back that was promised to runners?

What if the OP doesn't like the charity? What if he likes another charity better? Wouldn't he feel better if he gave the money to a charity he values more than the race's charity? If he doesn't give the $900 back it just means he reserves the right to decide what happens to that $900 rather than having the race director decide what happens to it. Who's to say whether his decision is worse than the race director's?

I understand wrote:

[quote][

what you're saying. But we're all human and make mistakes. Why, when you find out that you weren't suppose to get what you thought you were entitled to, still feel entitled to it?

Sure, it might be a bitter pill to swallow but do you really want/need a few hundred bucks that badly that you'd take it away from a charity of some sort? You do realize that's where the funds will come from, right? Do you think the race organizers who are usually volunteers will reach into their pockets for the cash? Not very likely.

Wow- seriously hello race director.

Enough games

The real question: Does the race director really need that few hundred dollars that badly that he won't honor his written commitments? He or the organization should cover it.

Maybe you need to drastically lower the prize $ for next year, but stop trying to threaten and take advantage of runners this year

The race website advertises you can signup for a deal and get 50% off the registration price. The RD needs to contact everyone who got 50% off, tell them they didn't mean this race in particular, and threaten to sue them. I'm sure everyone will gladly send in $27 because they have integrity.

Heathrow wrote:

If, ifs and buts wrote:

I hope none of you ever find yourself in the position of the race director. If the race goes off without a hitch you'll be lucky to get a pat on the back. Something goes wrong you'll be castigated from here to eternity.

If you are a race director then I feel sorry for you. In this day and age of social media I witness bare minimum races put on and the masses of well meaning hobby joggers boasting on every social media outlet about how wonderful the race was and how fun it was and thanking the organizers. Sorry but I don't feel sorry for a race director who couldn't read his own website AND the GIANT CHECK then bullied the winner of his own race. If he made this mistake then guess what? He is in the wrong profession.

The people that you and others refer to as "hobby joggers" are really great participants. It's the "hobby runners" who are the biggest whiners/criers. Guys that can't break 16 minutes that complain that the T-shirts are made of cotton, the trophies are too small, ect. These are they idiots race directors wish would stay away from fund raiser races. I've heard too many of them bitch'n'moan about $20-25 for this "cheap plaque or trophy" And God forbid if you only award medals.

What's wrong with these guys that they need something shiny to prove that they can run faster than a "hobby Jogger"? Low self-esteem? It use to be enough of a prize just to win a race or beat your buddy. What's wrong with kids now days?

esquire wrote:

Wow- seriously hello race director.

Enough games

The real question: Does the race director really need that few hundred dollars that badly that he won't honor his written commitments? He or the organization should cover it.

Maybe you need to drastically lower the prize $ for next year, but stop trying to threaten and take advantage of runners this year

Yeah, going out on a limb and proposing that "Missing a Piece" (who announced the recently added fine print in the website), "Maybe you should pay it back" and "I understand" are the same person. All of them use the "I agree with X / understand X but Y" formula. Similar writing style. "Missing a Piece" pretends that the runner doesn't have any obligation to pay the money back, just wants to point out the (recently edited) fine print on the website. The fact that "Missing a Piece" is first to notice this fine print suggests that they also edited the website. Given the pattern of deception here, the posturing about "integrity" is laughable

Yes without a doubt. I wish the Brojos would pull some IPs

I wrote the posts, "Maybe you should pay it back" and "I understand. I did not write, "Missing a Piece", nor did I have any involvement in that race. And yes I do believe many people lack integrity nor have a clue what it means to posses it. Glad to clarify that for you.

However I have been a RD and assisted other RD's. It's no picnic believe me. To all of you guys who are up the arses of RD"s, try from scratch putting on a road race to benefit a charity. You'll soon find out how much fun it is. Or instead of posting on here, you could be working on your 5/10k time and race in the diamond league next summer. Then you won't have to worry about some amateur, volunteer RD messing things up for you.

Nice blanket defense and terrible reasoning. It sounds like all you want to is complain about race directing- maybe it's not something you are cut out for. All the runners I know are very appreciative towards good race directors and, unlike you apparently, most are willing to at least offer constructive criticism towards race directors when mistakes have been made

If, ifs and buts wrote:

were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas!

A mistake was made and the race directors effort to correct it/resolve it was obviously ham-handed. No question about it.

The moral dilemma is do you give back half of your purse because of their error or do you keep it because of greed or lack of integrity. From what I've read most posters are willing to throw their integrity out the window because of the unprofessional way the race director attempted to resolve the issue.

I don't see any winners here, just a sad bunch of losers.

I hope none of you ever find yourself in the position of the race director. If the race goes off without a hitch you'll be lucky to get a pat on the back. Something goes wrong you'll be castigated from here to eternity.

You are incorrect. Without a doubt the integrity argument is extremely flawed. This is not a question of integrity on the part of the runner. The winner in good faith thought he got 1800 and may have spent the extra income on a want rather than a need. Now the race director wants his money back but the winner cannot unspend the money. So the winner should not have to suffer because of the RD. The RD needs to have the integrity to own his mistake.

I feel a good ol' round of blame the elites coming.

Never fear Bingham is on his way.

Pointing out the change in the website for the 2016 edition of the race might indicate someone connected with the groups in question has been made aware of this thread or at least that someone pointed out the confusion that their presentation of the prize structure causes. I'm not sure it can be 'proof' of underhanded behavior by the editor.

The ongoing argument surrounding the legal obligation and the 'moral' obligation of the OP is of great interest.

It has been interesting reading all of the comments. I am a California attorney and formerly was a Small Clams Court judge. (This dispute will end up in Small Claims Court if it gets into litigation. As an early poster noted, you cannot cost effectively hire an attorney to sue for $900.)

Once the judge sees the website and the blow up check for $1800 it is very unlikely that the judge is going to make the OP give back one-half of the money.

Maybe there was a mistake. Maybe the race is having second thoughts about the amount which it awarded. Either way, the race caused the problem and the race is going to have to suffer the loss.

The Judge is going to be furious if he has to waste time on this.