Cam Levins is my new favorite runner

Having raced Cam multiple times in high school it was very obvious that he was run of the mill talent wise. I can't speak directly for others but what I have read about Lawi through Coach Li's interviews is that he isn't training at the same intensity as evidenced by Li calling him potentially the biggest prospect he's ever coached. This in no way detracts from his accomplishments but myself and I'm sure many others do feel that Cam has had a harder road to get this level of competition. I don't give a shit about their races.

Running 155 mpw to finish fourth...

Wow. I can't get excited about this. All I can think about is that this guy is a bit deluded if he thinks he genuinely has a shot at being much more than an above-average collegiate runner.

If you have to run 155 mpw to get fourth at collegiate nats, there's not much more you're going to be able to do for the jump necessary to compete with the elites.

This 'work hard' ethic is all well and good, but the accompanying feel-good line about success following hard work is only a reality in the land of fairy tales.

At some point the vast majority of people have to accept that they do not have the potential to be as great as they're willing to work to be.

gotta say it wrote:

Running 155 mpw to finish fourth...

Wow. I can't get excited about this. All I can think about is that this guy is a bit deluded if he thinks he genuinely has a shot at being much more than an above-average collegiate runner.

If you have to run 155 mpw to get fourth at collegiate nats, there's not much more you're going to be able to do for the jump necessary to compete with the elites.

This 'work hard' ethic is all well and good, but the accompanying feel-good line about success following hard work is only a reality in the land of fairy tales.

At some point the vast majority of people have to accept that they do not have the potential to be as great as they're willing to work to be.

_________________________________________________________

What you've failed to realize is:

1. He is young (21)

2. Has 3 years of big time improvements

3. Was not a well known or particularly good HS runner (4:05 - 1500)

4. He has worked himself up to 57th in World Cross Country Champs (2010).

gotta say it wrote:

Running 155 mpw to finish fourth...

Wow. I can't get excited about this. All I can think about is that this guy is a bit deluded if he thinks he genuinely has a shot at being much more than an above-average collegiate runner.

If you have to run 155 mpw to get fourth at collegiate nats, there's not much more you're going to be able to do for the jump necessary to compete with the elites.

This 'work hard' ethic is all well and good, but the accompanying feel-good line about success following hard work is only a reality in the land of fairy tales.

At some point the vast majority of people have to accept that they do not have the potential to be as great as they're willing to work to be.

maybe, just maybe, his eye is on 2012, 2016, 2020, and not just NCAA? I'm convinced Cam was good for 13:30 last year, and 13:20 soon. Who knows where he might be in a few years when his eye is on the big picture? You certainly don't.

Or should I say 10/10?

snow wrote:

He went 3:59, indoors, a couple years ago. It's just a matter of focus.

This.

Expect Canada two have two legitimate low 13:20 guys in Mo Ahmed and Cam Levins. That is if Mohummad does not run the 10,000m.

Marathon man 65 wrote:

What you've failed to realize is:

1. He is young (21)

2. Has 3 years of big time improvements

3. Was not a well known or particularly good HS runner (4:05 - 1500)

4. He has worked himself up to 57th in World Cross Country Champs (2010).

No, I am fully aware of all of those things.

And what I'm saying is that he has pitched a tent smack dab in the middle of the land of diminishing returns.

Being a good hs runner has nothing to do with the fact that he now has to put in such tremendous time, effort and volume to come in... fourth.

Now would he be able to back that down to 100mpw in the following years and have a big jump in improvement?

Possibly.

Is it likely?

No.

57th in the world xc champs is nothing to brag about at the elite level.

And that's what my point. When you do so much to achieve so little (in the context of the level of sport), you need to realize that your potential may not match up to your drive.

Skuj wrote:

maybe, just maybe, his eye is on 2012, 2016, 2020, and not just NCAA? I'm convinced Cam was good for 13:30 last year, and 13:20 soon. Who knows where he might be in a few years when his eye is on the big picture? You certainly don't.

Or should I say 10/10?

That doesn't really address what I said, now does it?

Potential =/= drive and accepting that. <----- My point.

gotta say it wrote:

And what I'm saying is that he has pitched a tent smack dab in the middle of the land of diminishing returns.

As Frank Shorter once said, "diminishing returns are still returns."

craig mcmahon wrote:

As Frank Shorter once said, "diminishing returns are still returns."[/quote]

Super. So maybe after a few more years of 155 he'll only be 10 seconds behind the winner instead of 20.

Do you and perhaps many mothers get this feeling that what Cam does is an endless slog? Mighht it be possible that he actually LOVES all this? Ie The racing AND the daily training? Is a total of about 2hrs of running per day on average such an otherworldly crazy thing? Rupp talks about doing the work month after month and year after year in order to find improvements, and look where he is at now? CAM IS 22. He is clearly on the upswing. How do you know where and when this upswing will stall? If someone LOVES the sport, as Cam clearly does, and has their eye on the big picture, anything can happen. Since when did 4th at NCAA spell some kind of doom? Good grief. Talking about so called tiny achievement and stalled potential at this stage of the game is absolutely silly.

gotta say it wrote:

No, I am fully aware of all of those things.

And what I'm saying is that he has pitched a tent smack dab in the middle of the land of diminishing returns.

Being a good hs runner has nothing to do with the fact that he now has to put in such tremendous time, effort and volume to come in... fourth.

Now would he be able to back that down to 100mpw in the following years and have a big jump in improvement?

Possibly.

Is it likely?

No.

57th in the world xc champs is nothing to brag about at the elite level.

And that's what my point. When you do so much to achieve so little (in the context of the level of sport), you need to realize that your potential may not match up to your drive.

Skuj wrote:

Do you and perhaps many mothers get this feeling that what Cam does is an endless slog? Mighht it be possible that he actually LOVES all this? Ie The racing AND the daily training? Is a total of about 2hrs of running per day on average such an otherworldly crazy thing? Rupp talks about doing the work month after month and year after year in order to find improvements, and look where he is at now? CAM IS 22. He is clearly on the upswing. How do you know where and when this upswing will stall? If someone LOVES the sport, as Cam clearly does, and has their eye on the big picture, anything can happen. Since when did 4th at NCAA spell some kind of doom? Good grief. Talking about so called tiny achievement and stalled potential at this stage of the game is absolutely silly.

Your quip about mothers is coming from left field, but I digress.

This thread seems to have been created solely to laud over (and vicariously live through?!) the extremely high work load and accomplishment of this runner.

But I don't think that it's really that great and my point is this: You might work and work and work and not get anywhere. At some point you have to accept that hard work will not always get you to where you want to go.

Some of you see 155 mpw for fourth place as a wonderful accomplishment for a deserving athlete.

I see 155 mpw for fourth place as the culmination of the efforts of a mediocre runner who will never see success on an elite state.

Now maybe there are some that feel that's worth it and I am by no means attempting to denigrate such an ideal. If that's where you want to go, then go.

I'm just giving another perspective.

Others not mothers, haha, damn.

So, in letsrunland, a 3:59 indoor mile at 20 is the height of mediocrity? Twice national XC champ is for losers? he did 155 mile weeks to achieve the latest results vice 50 mile weeks, therefore all that work was a waste of time. Honestly Dude, I think some of the things you say explain the dominance of Africans today.

connect wrote:

The New uncleB wrote:

It's funny how all the positive and enthusiastic threads on foreign white runners and critical threads on african runners are not based on racism but always some other factor. Well, at least in your mind.

Canadians are not really foreigners? Well, except for Bairu.

And, of course, Americans such as Meb and Lagat and still foreigners. But Mottram, Lemaitre, Cragg, Willis, Coe, Ovett, et al I guess are not. But I am sure there is some obscure, non race based reason for that.

Very well put.

That was very poorly put, all those people you named are actually foreign.

I've never looked at any of them as American, except for Meb and Lagat you mentioned. Very poorly put.

Skuj wrote:

So, in letsrunland, a 3:59 indoor mile at 20 is the height of mediocrity? Twice national XC champ is for losers? he did 155 mile weeks to achieve the latest results vice 50 mile weeks, therefore all that work was a waste of time.

Honestly Dude, I think some of the things you say explain the dominance of Africans today.

Because said Africans would certainly think getting 4th place is worth 155 mpw.

I know the winner definitely thinks that... oh. Right.

I'd just like to thank you guys for making this thread an endless source of amusement for me the past few days

There are many ways to define talent.

Some define it as people under 20 years of age who are able to break 13 minutes in a 5k.

Thats a good definition. I've known sub 4 milers who run that with like 30-40 miles a week.

You should read the book by Peter Coe and see what seb was able to do off of low mileage. There was some wicked talent.