Another one bites the dust, Delaware Men's Xc and Track cut

Truthfully, it is the "path to prominence" that Dr. Harker is following. They want to have all of the accouterments of a "big time" university, both academically and athletically. The sport with the biggest regional reputation is football and that is the horse they are riding. If they had been able to keep Mike Brey, then they would be riding the basketball trail harder. Being on the "path to prominence" means building a new engineering building and starting a law school from scratch. Both of these are expensive endeavors. Don't think Dr. Harker didn't cost out what it would take to establish a medical school as well. The student body at Delaware also includes 16% more women to men which exasperates the Title IX issues. To stay within the budget they have established and put more resources into football to continue on the path to the next level required them to make a very tough choice.

Coach Schuder makes a good point that the added conference travel costs across all of the sports contributes greatly to the budgetary concerns that Dr. Harker and Bernard Muir are addressing with Wednesday's actions. Clearly this isn't going to be reversed. It is only in hindsight that we will be able to judge if the "path to prominence" that Dr. Harker speaks so eloquently about will really lead to a drastic change in UD's perception nationally. And it may be that Keeler will leave as Brey did sending the program to drift into mediocrity and consequently that the cost cutting will have been in vain.

I wish that things had played out differently for Fisch. I had hoped that when he finally retired he would be able to pass the program over to Mike D or Pat Castagno. I think both could be great college coaches and both have been strongly influenced by Coach Fischer.

Fisch is a solid coach. Look at the high school times of his XC team and compare them to the 10 schools that beat them at regionals, or for that matter to many of the schools behind them. Look at the high school times of the 4x8 that has now run 7:34. With zero runners coming in the last two years under 16:20 in high school, it's not easy to succeed on any level.

No, the AD's (ownership, hence apostrophe) basic job entails raising money from alumni, among other sources. If he doesn't please the alumni then that funding source will slow to a trickle.It's not about financial solvency of any given team, it's about what proves popular enough for donation-providing (for all departments at the school, not just that athletic department) alumni to rally around. Collegiate sports are a marketing tool of the school, they show the school's stature in places where the general public as well as alumni tend to be looking. The athletic department and director oversee that marketing program. Marketing doesn't fund itself, it helps to draw attention and consumers to the product. Don't be so naive.

Let's see UD get noticed on America's Funniest Home Videos again after this. Bah on them!

[quote]Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:

No, the AD's (ownership, hence apostrophe) basic job entails raising money from alumni, among other sources. If he doesn't please the alumni then that funding source will slow to a trickle.

It's not about financial solvency of any given team, it's about what proves popular enough for donation-providing (for all departments at the school, not just that athletic department) alumni to rally around. Collegiate sports are a marketing tool of the school, they show the school's stature in places where the general public as well as alumni tend to be looking. The athletic department and director oversee that marketing program. Marketing doesn't fund itself, it helps to draw attention and consumers to the product. Don't be so naive.

[quote]

Then please explain why the Ivy League can survive just fine with over 20+ sports per gender and division 3 schools can survive, in some cases with 30+ sports programs. I stand by my previous point. Delaware has made a bad decision to follow the NCAA wannabe "big time". The Delaware xc and track and field program would be strong and successful at the Patriot League level, if it had followed Lehigh, Lafayette, etc. That was the old East Coast League plus now Army and Navy (which don't belong there). Athletics in college should be a positive experience for all scholar-athletes. Delaware has chosen to limit that exposure to a select few "team" sports. As a pseudo-state school, Delaware is not fulfilling it obligation to provide equal educational opportunities to all who attend this otherwise excellent University.

Sorry for the bold, don't know how that came about....

To those who suggest that coach Fisher is not a GREAT coach, you are either A) someone that didn't make it in his program because you didn't have the will to do the work OR B) someone that knows nothing about it.

If Fish has a weak spot it is his recruiting. This was more of a moral dilemma for him than anything. The man can't stand the thought of convincing a kid to come to his school only to have it be the wrong place. In the past three years I have had many of my high school kids that wanted to look there and he basically told me he would not recruit them because he felt the school would do this to the kids. Why does he care...because he is a better person than we are.

For anyone that suggests that he gets decent talent...you are are just dumb! For those who think Mike D is the only example of success, you don't measure success the way Fish does. Just in the time I was there, I watched numerous Delaware high school athletes that could barely crack 17 minutes as seniors end up running high 24 and low 25 minute 8ks. When I got there I watched Mike D run slower than 16 minutes IN COLLEGE! 4 years later he was an 8:35 steeplechaser that was only 5'8".

I on the other hand had more talent in my little finger than Mike D, but I didn't follow Fish's plan for me and I went no where...not because the plan wasn't good, but because I would not make the sacrifices necessary. Those that ran for him and criticize his coaching simply aren't willing to admit the same about themselves.

It takes a lot of talent to run an 8:35 steeplechase or 14:05 for 5k. Some people just develop at different times. I understand your points and there are MANY people in the program who didn't see success for the reasons you posted but to suggest an 8:35 steeplechaser has no talent is asinine.

People in Delaware love to talk about the success stories of shitty athletes running fast like Digennaro, Meany, Riley, etc to validate the coaching at UD.

Digennaro ran those track times as a 26 year old post collegiate athlete. Meany and Riley were good at XC because they hammered 100+ mile weeks year round and didn't get blackout drunk like the rest of the team every weekend.

UD gets plenty of above average runners. Weigel 15:20 5k in HS...end up running 16:30 at UD. They got a 9:14 2 miler from NY a few years ago...ends up running 15:30 5k at UD.

TRUTHHH wrote:

People in Delaware love to talk about the success stories of shitty athletes running fast like Digennaro, Meany, Riley, etc to validate the coaching at UD.

Digennaro ran those track times as a 26 year old post collegiate athlete. Meany and Riley were good at XC because they hammered 100+ mile weeks year round and didn't get blackout drunk like the rest of the team every weekend.

UD gets plenty of above average runners. Weigel 15:20 5k in HS...end up running 16:30 at UD. They got a 9:14 2 miler from NY a few years ago...ends up running 15:30 5k at UD.

People also love to talk about the failures of athletes who didn't treat running as the second, third, or fourth most important thing in college, and got worse because of it. To keep things fair, if you could find athletes who bought into Fischer's system and got much worse, then you'd have a point.

A 9:14 2 miler that ended up running 14:46***. Also, the 4x8 has run 7:32*** (High school PBs add to 7:56-7:57).

It takes a real tough guy to call those guys "shitty athletes" while hiding behind a screen name.

The team has had varying levels of dedicated and not-so dedicated runners in the past but the improvements in the last few years has been the result of a team that has overall taken running much more seriously. I don't know who you are, but I doubt you know the team better than I do, or any of the other UD guys who have posted on this thread.

When you say UD gets "plenty of above average" runners, I understand what you're trying to say. But when you get a couple of as you call them "above average" runners every year (sometimes one or even none though) it's tough to take big risks with their training and force everybody to go out and kill it all the time. In other words, in a program like this you have to pick your spots, train the walk-ons intelligently, and hope for the best. On the other hand, look at a team like William and Mary where a 9:20 kid is nothing exciting at all, and you get 15-20 guys like that together, train them hard as shit and you get a great team. On both teams you end up with guys under-performing, getting hurt, quitting, whatever. But with a team full of studs it's not noticeable.

The runner from NY who ran 9:15 in high school ran in the 14:40's and 24:40's in his time at Delaware despite a variety of serious health issues that limited his running greatly the last three years of his career here.

Like I said, you get things like this that happen at a really good school and nobody notices because there's more depth, but on a team like Delaware it looks much worse. That's why I said in an earlier post, success here is largely determined by general team improvement (mostly improvement of walk-ons).

Of course this is all a moot point as the team wasn't cut due to its competition level.

You are telling me that a 9:14 HS 2 miler should consider graduating college with a 14:46 PR as a success?

Seriously?

No I was fixing incorrect information.

I ran for UD and Coach Fischer from 95-98. It was Fish who renewed my love for the sport. I didn't run at UD my freshman year b/c I was so burnt from my Sr year in HS. I contacted Fish midway through my FR year and he encouraged me to come out. I never put up super times but I improved enough with him to become a scorer at Conf meets. Fish is a great human being and the UD XC/TF teams renewed my love for the sport. It's a shame it has to end this way.

Carl Egbert UD 98

Maybe a coincidence, but a joblot of Delaware singlets and shorts are available on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ADIDAS-TEAM-ADULT-TRACK-SINGLETS-E76110-LOT-27-/200566846934?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb2b735d6

Lot of 27!?! Who is the seller?

If this is a current student-athlete they're getting involved in some Terelle Pryor type dealings.

Never said that Mike D didn't have talent, just that I had more...a lot more...and I wasted it because I didn't listen to Fish. There are plenty of people that don't do well but if you were to look at every roster, there are way more success stories than failures. Fish made better athletes without abusing them for his own ego. If you say he was a bad coach, you know nothing!

To all you c***s, like Picayune, who laugh this off, you don't understand the sport or understand what this means to some people.