hotpan,
If the course is flat and you want to see how close to 33 minutes you can get, see where the race sets up in front of you before deciding to go out in 16:40. 16:30 won't kill you the way you've been running. a lot of strength runners don't do repeat kilos in sub 3:10 so they should never go out in under 3:15 but if you've got that much recent work in at faster paces, you'll be better off racing at 3:18 than running alone at 3:20.
I disagree.
He's been running short hard reps with long rests.
I think he's going to be done by 5k and will struggle over the last part of the distance, also that the half marathon will be a worse time than the 10k. There is no evidence that he's done any good training for either a 10k or halfmarathon.
too short too much rest wrote:I disagree.
He's been running short hard reps with long rests.
I don't think you've been paying attention to the thread. He did ONE session of (relatively) short reps (1k) on long rest. Most of the other sessions he's reported have been more aerobic.
That said, I don't think he should go out faster than 16:50, and then see if he can crank it up a hair in the second half.
too short too much rest wrote:
I disagree.
He's been running short hard reps with long rests.
I think he's going to be done by 5k and will struggle over the last part of the distance, also that the half marathon will be a worse time than the 10k. There is no evidence that he's done any good training for either a 10k or halfmarathon.
Unless he runs the half marathon with a significant downhill, which I think he might be? Hamilton?
Whats the worst thing that can happen??You die at 7-8k and run in 34min??
But your goal is 33min, thats what you really want is it?or are you happy with 33.30??
I would say go for it!! Hit 5k in 16.30 and see if you can hold on to it..If not go home and train harder and you`ll make it the next time..
too short too much rest wrote:
I disagree.
He's been running short hard reps with long rests.
I think he's going to be done by 5k and will struggle over the last part of the distance, also that the half marathon will be a worse time than the 10k. There is no evidence that he's done any good training for either a 10k or halfmarathon.
I have only done 2 sessions with hard reps and long recoveries whereas I have done a lot of tempo runs/cruise intervals/and longer reps with short recoveries - e.g. 8 X1k with 1:30 rest. I have also done a lot of long runs finishing the last 5-6 miles at between HM and Marathon pace.
sisyphus wrote:
hotpan,
If the course is flat and you want to see how close to 33 minutes you can get, see where the race sets up in front of you before deciding to go out in 16:40. 16:30 won't kill you the way you've been running. a lot of strength runners don't do repeat kilos in sub 3:10 so they should never go out in under 3:15 but if you've got that much recent work in at faster paces, you'll be better off racing at 3:18 than running alone at 3:20.
If the conditions are near perfect I will probably try and go 16:30 for the first 5k.....that way if I am feeling strong I still have a chance. If not Ill bomb on the back end and run 34ish.
I think the poster who mentioned it depends on what your goals are, was spot on. If I would be very happy with 33:30 than I should probably be 16:45-16:50 at the 5k. But if I want to really go for it I should be 16:30 or a little faster. Id be satisfied with 33:30 but not overly happy
HotPanOliveOil wrote:
[quote]sisyphus wrote:
If the conditions are near perfect I will probably try and go 16:30 for the first 5k.....that way if I am feeling strong
If your best 5k is 16:30, how can you run two back to back?
Nope### wrote:
[If your best 5k is 16:30, how can you run two back to back?
My best 5k is 16:37......from when I was 15 years old. I am 33 now so its not very meaningful in terms of a predictor for this race.
I would guess I could probably run around 16 flat at the moment......maybe a touch faster
Also have run a 5k for a couple of years
Numbers don't lie. So most people imagine they could answer this question. In truth numbers are only one part of the equation. The circumstances surrounding this workout says everything. How did you feel? Were you running with the same form as you would in a 10k race? What workouts did you do in the previous days? Were your legs 75% recovered before the workout or 95% recovered? On the face of it a sub 33 is a bit of a stretch on this workout. Sub 33 for 10k puts you running faster than 3.18 per Kilo with no rest and ten of them in a row. That is a lot of disipline. Believe it or not for most regular guys, its actually easier to predict their 10k from what type of pace they can carry on an anaerobic threshold run or their tempo run. If you can't carry sub 33 pace on a 3 mile anerobic threshold run, you don't stand a chance. If you can't carry sub 36 min 10k pace on a 45 min tempo run, then your chances are also daunting. My advice to most runners is to be patient with themselves and let the fire come out naturally. Running fast is great but it has to be done comfortably. Try not to start off too fast with your workouts like you did on this one, and always avoid that just barely hanging on feeling. At the end of every one of the 1k repeats you should feel like you could have kept going. If fact in any interval workout, that is the key. Too many people do the 'straining to get to the line' thing in workouts. That is the wrong approach. The other key thing, is to be running with the same type of cadence as you would in a race. If you are going to be running on your heel in the race, then you have to comfortably hit the times running on your heel on the interval workouts. And trust me on this you are never ever going to run faster in the middle of you 10k that you did on your slowest repeat in the interval workout. We all tend to go to that survival mode in the middle of a 10k where we want to finish. So if we take the 3.19 as your slowest, I would imagine that in the middle of the race you will be going no faster than maybe 3.25. The benchmark of any interval workout is what you did on the slowest repeat. Try to have fun challenging yourself and keep a positive mental attitude. Best of luck!
How old are you and how fast do you run today?
wuzthere wrote:
Numbers don't lie. So most people imagine they could answer this question. In truth numbers are only one part of the equation. The circumstances surrounding this workout says everything. How did you feel? Were you running with the same form as you would in a 10k race? What workouts did you do in the previous days? Were your legs 75% recovered before the workout or 95% recovered?
I think what you have highlighted here, is the problem of not having a running coach. All those little bits of info. you asked about with your questions, are all little pieces of a puzzle, ultimately put together by a coach, who then comes up with what he/she thinks is the best possible gameplan.
I think most people on this board understand this, and so we come up with our best guesses based on the info. I provide. In essence this is what online coaching relies upon. Since the coach can't actually witness the person running, or in most cases have in depth conversations re: their training, they must rely upon the athletes description. It's not perfect, but it is "the next best thing" to having a coach. That's not soemthing I have access to, and so I try to learn some new things here - already on this thread there has been some great advice i have incorporated into my training.
Last workout before the 10k race on Sunday. The workout was 2 mile tempo (1:30 jog), 2 X 1k (45 secs. jog rest), 2 X 800m (2:00 jog rest). Here were the times. I should mention wind was a big factor today (45-50km/hr.)
2 miles @ tempo - 11:04 (5:22 with wind/5:42 into wind)
2 X 1k - 3:08 (with wind), 3:18 (into wind)
2 X 800m - 2:33, 2:32 (cross wind)
Additional info. - 2 mile tempo done at approx. 10mile-HM pace......2 X 1k @ little faster than could hold for 10k.....800's @ about 5k pace. I kept moving during all rests at about 7:30 pace. I felt strong, but had trouble turning over my legs the last 2 800's.
Now it's time to rest up!
Here's hoping that wind goes away in the next four days. good luck!
What you have highlighted here, is the problem of not having a running coach. I think most people on this board understand that.
sisyphus wrote:
Here's hoping that wind goes away in the next four days. good luck!
Thanks Sisyphus....the wind is suppose to die down before the weekend. As of now the forecast is calling for cool temps with 10km/hr winds....so solid conditions!
Also I looked at the starting list for the race, and it turns out a lot more 32-33 minute type guys will be there this year. Hopefully I can latch onto a pack running at sub 33 pace, and see if I can hang on.
Lets hear the race report!
How did it go?
Still on the course?