KARA GOUCHER GETS BRONZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What's "cryptic" about it? The administrators of the sport are complicit in the doping culture that has overtaken it. Not all administrators and not for all dopers, but they play their part by selectively looking the other way and so on. If you're one who believes that the system always catches every doper and that any doper who is caught is caught the very first time they dope, then this is a waste of time as no argument could penetrate your ignorant bias.

Gosh, Emse, yours is about the most knuckleheaded analysis ever seen on letsrun. Gouchder and Pavey raced at 10,000 meters and Goucher came out on top, which is enough to make her "bronze worthy" despite whatever dubious analysis of their alleged comparative athleticism you make.

As for Shayne Culpepper...she was injured when competing at the USATF Championships in June. It's as simple as that.

I'm pretty sure that the only thing that makes someone Bronze Medal Worthy is finishing 3rd and getting the bronze metal. This is championship competition. That means:First across the line = GoldSecond across the line = SilverThird across the line = BronzeI don't care what everyone's PRs are... it's about delivering on the right day. In fact, I would say that these PRs only indicate that perhaps Kara dug a little deeper than her faster competators. Not as deep as the winner's 60-second last 400m, but pretty deep. And you know what else? Being spiked is a stupid excuse, if you've ever run a race, you know you don't feel pain like that while you're running. Also... dropping out counts as not being able to take the heat. You cannot say that if Tufa had not dropped out, Kara would not have medaled. That's crap. She couldn't hang yesterday, and that's that.I would rather die with a bonze medal than a 14:39 5k. What can you do with a 14:39 5k? Write it down on a piece of paper and have it cremated with your body?

Actually Pollyanna, let's just say you have nothing at all except innuendo and that you became boring long ago. We are not all the outsiders you think us to be. We can also see that you choose to sully the reputation of a woman at the time of her greatest athletic moment on the basis of absolutely nothing verifiable at all. I think we're done here.

not that simple, pollyanna wrote:

What's "cryptic" about it? The administrators of the sport are complicit in the doping culture that has overtaken it. Not all administrators and not for all dopers, but they play their part by selectively looking the other way and so on. If you're one who believes that the system always catches every doper and that any doper who is caught is caught the very first time they dope, then this is a waste of time as no argument could penetrate your ignorant bias.

All I've done is ask in what way the administrators have encouraged a culture of doping, I haven't expressed any opinion about the effectiveness of the controls so I don't know where that little rant came from.

So, now I know what your argument is, finally, that administrators "play their part by selectively looking the other way and so on". Well since neither of us know whether this is true there's no point debating it.

bored board wrote:

So, now I know what your argument is, finally, that administrators "play their part by selectively looking the other way and so on". Well since neither of us know whether this is true there's no point debating it.

Well, I actually do, which is how I knew of RJ's doping offenses before almost any of you did. There's nothing to "debate" about it.

Yanqui wrote:

Actually Pollyanna, let's just say you have nothing at all except innuendo and that you became boring long ago. We are not all the outsiders you think us to be. We can also see that you choose to sully the reputation of a woman at the time of her greatest athletic moment on the basis of absolutely nothing verifiable at all. I think we're done here.

So skip my posts if you are uninterested. I'll never tire of trying to rid the sport of the doping culture. You go rest on your laurels, if that's what pleases you.

No, apparently what you never tire of is character assassination. I'm also not so sure what spending all of your time in here is doing to "rid the sport of the doping culture."

Races are where you decide who the better athlete is, not this bullshit list of times that you have. Notice Kara has a faster 10000m time (that is what this race was in by the way, not the 1500 or 5000), all you do is make excuses why Pavey hasn't run faster but the fact is Kara is a better 10000m runner and she proved it when it mattered.

Wrong.

not that simple, pollyanna wrote:

[quote]bored board wrote:

Well, I actually do, which is how I knew of RJ's doping offenses before almost any of you did.

You know if you actually came out and said what you know and how you know it people might actually start giving you some credibility. Instead you seem more interested in making yourself sound important by suggesting you know more than the rest of us without actually saying what it is.

RJ got popped at the '00 OT. She was told by USATF officials that she had to clear their testing before they would allow her to go overseas. Then there was the whole charade of RJ running records during indoors on US soil and then being completely off the competitive radar by the time the outdoor international championships came around.

So you're using Regina, a woman who was in her late 30s and trained in virtual isolation in Oakland, to diss young Kara, who is in Oregon. Interesting thought process.

Whatever, you're not trying to rid the sport of doping culture you sir are on a smear campaign. You haven't provided any interesting theories, protocols, evidence you just say random things and think you know about physiology. When the normal guys on this site show up and point this out you act high and mighty and smug that's why nobody takes you seriously because your a crazy. For all we know your experiences in this sport could be lurking around highschool track workouts, pacing wringing your hands and muttering crazy talk about conspiracy theories.

Emse Ratte wrote:

Lets not even talk about the fact that Tufa and B Johnson were both spiked .. Tufa dropped out. If Tufa had not dropped out, Goucher would have not medaled.

No, let's not talk about it.

This is like saying "if Powell had run faster Gay would not have won."

*It didn't happen.* Your alternate reality is meaningless.

You are an idiot.

Dusty Bones wrote:

So you're using Regina, a woman who was in her late 30s and trained in virtual isolation in Oakland, to diss young Kara, who is in Oregon. Interesting thought process.

You're the only one trying to equate the two. Try harder to pay attention to the thread of discussion.

"Character assassination" began when the Goucher's sold their souls to Alberto Salazar.

"I believe that it is currently difficult to be

among the top 5 in the world in any of the distance events without using EPO or Human

Growth Hormone. While some of the top athletes may be clean, so many athletes are

running so fast that their performances are suspect." Al Sal

Interesting footnote:

The Present and Future of Doping (GlaxoWellcome Classroom)

Gary I. Wadler, M.D., Women's Sports Foundation

Doping in Sport: From Strychnine to Genetic Enhancement, It's a Moving Target [pdf, html]

Alberto Salazar, Marathoner and Coach

Locating the Line between Acceptable Performance Enhancement and Cheating [pdf, html]

Alberto, ironically, argues, from the GlaxoWellcome Classroom that the line between acceptable performance enhancement and cheating - should be made very clear, i.e. "black and white" - so that people (errr - his athletes) dancing in the gray zone, don't get busted. Which is arguably the reason why Dr. Stray-Gundersen was hired as team physician for "Team Salazar". Stray-Gundersen helped to write the testing protocols for doping. If you were pushing the limits of the tax law, who better to have on your staff than the person who helped to pen the law.

Stray-Gundersen is in the same position as Mauro DiPasquale. Dr. DiPasquale MD can be contacted for "Private Formulations" - he also helped to pen many of the steroid testing protocols. What a nice job. Write some "legislation" then hire yourself out as a consultant to avoid any pitfalls and maximize all of the loopholes created by the legislation.

I am sorry guys, but this is beyond the scope of "coaching" if you cannot see this, then it is a reflection of how far our cultural ethics have slipped.

H2O girl wrote:

Whatever, you're not trying to rid the sport of doping culture you sir are on a smear campaign. You haven't provided any interesting theories, protocols, evidence you just say random things and think you know about physiology. When the normal guys on this site show up and point this out you act high and mighty and smug that's why nobody takes you seriously because your a crazy. For all we know your experiences in this sport could be lurking around highschool track workouts, pacing wringing your hands and muttering crazy talk about conspiracy theories.

You're wrong, just like so many other obviously emotional fans. It's easier for you to attack the messenger than to try to honestly consider the message. Wishing it away may be an adequate coping mechanism, but it doesn't work beyond the realm of personal psychosis.

Gosh, Pollyanna, if Regina is not part of the "thread of the discussion," why did you even bring her up?

You're failing miserably hear and embarrassing yourself with every comment.