SPASH wins by a lot after trailing Marquette at Mile 1.
Homestead ended up edging out Marquette by 2 points. Homestead’s 2-4 guys all finished together. Great performance after not even going to state last year.
Deerfield ... course [is] a joke. The D2 'hypothetical meet' has over half the top-10 times from either of those courses. Look for a big shakeup from the hypothetical to the actual results.
There were dudes running 40-50s faster than any race all year at DF-C, 30-40s faster at Rice Lake
Deerfield's course was designed by an extremely dishonest -- and drunken doofus of a -- coach who is an embarrassment to all coaches in Wisconsin. Let's meet here after state and analyze the sectional to state comparison to prove my point.
I don’t think anyone with knowledge of the Cambridge course thinks it’s a full 5K.
But this does seem a bit aggressive. Dunno if the Deerfield/Cambridge coach is a drunken doofus, but I’ve seen more embarrassing XC coaches about in Wisconsin.
Does seem like the D/C athletes develop alright over the years. So, that coach isn’t breaking them at least.
Finally, there are few certified XC courses about anywhere. So, while the Cambridge course being short isn’t great, neither is it an outlier. (Plenty of long courses as well!!)
SPASH wins by a lot after trailing Marquette at Mile 1.
Homestead ended up edging out Marquette by 2 points. Homestead’s 2-4 guys all finished together. Great performance after not even going to state last year.
SPASH wins by a lot after trailing Marquette at Mile 1.
Homestead ended up edging out Marquette by 2 points. Homestead’s 2-4 guys all finished together. Great performance after not even going to state last year.
Yeah. Was a great finish by SPASH and Homestead!
Now the ladies are up!!
Great ladies racing! D1 was a good fight. Fight for second in D2 was tight. Great runs by the ladies!!
Looks like the feed was fixed and the men’s races are up for rewatch. Not terrible coverage for a first go—once it got working, anyhow.
Deerfield's course was designed by an extremely dishonest -- and drunken doofus of a -- coach who is an embarrassment to all coaches in Wisconsin. Let's meet here after state and analyze the sectional to state comparison to prove my point.
I don’t think anyone with knowledge of the Cambridge course thinks it’s a full 5K.
But this does seem a bit aggressive. Dunno if the Deerfield/Cambridge coach is a drunken doofus, but I’ve seen more embarrassing XC coaches about in Wisconsin.
Does seem like the D/C athletes develop alright over the years. So, that coach isn’t breaking them at least.
Finally, there are few certified XC courses about anywhere. So, while the Cambridge course being short isn’t great, neither is it an outlier. (Plenty of long courses as well!!)
I was correct in my assessment. Cucko ran a strong race upfront, but 3 of the top 7 came from the portage sectional. Two of those guys were not “projected” top ten due to the Deerfield course being a joke
point blank, wr need standardization. We have short sectional courses and a 47m long state course (as it has been for years now). Just move the start and finish 20 meters a piece and you have a 5k. I know time is irrelevant, but cmon. Get it right. Not sure if they’re protecting Solinskys record, but it’s either laziness, stodgy WIAA Old Heads, or incompetence
for girls imagine being brook east, homestead, germantown, pewaukee, hamilton, preble, pulaski, eau claire, holmen, stevens point, marshfield or verona and staying home next weekend and having to see wisconsin lutheran, mukwonago and westosha get through what is this state doing with sectional assignments
at least wisco got 12th. mukwonago and westosha 19th and 20th all by themselves. ten percent of the state meet got there as charity because the wiaa gifted 2 schools golden tickets to host the easiest sectionals ever. how were those decisions made? i know it's sour grapes but who's state meet experience was improved beating up on those 2 schools?
I don’t think anyone with knowledge of the Cambridge course thinks it’s a full 5K.
But this does seem a bit aggressive. Dunno if the Deerfield/Cambridge coach is a drunken doofus, but I’ve seen more embarrassing XC coaches about in Wisconsin.
Does seem like the D/C athletes develop alright over the years. So, that coach isn’t breaking them at least.
Finally, there are few certified XC courses about anywhere. So, while the Cambridge course being short isn’t great, neither is it an outlier. (Plenty of long courses as well!!)
I was correct in my assessment. Cucko ran a strong race upfront, but 3 of the top 7 came from the portage sectional. Two of those guys were not “projected” top ten due to the Deerfield course being a joke
point blank, wr need standardization. We have short sectional courses and a 47m long state course (as it has been for years now). Just move the start and finish 20 meters a piece and you have a 5k. I know time is irrelevant, but cmon. Get it right. Not sure if they’re protecting Solinskys record, but it’s either laziness, stodgy WIAA Old Heads, or incompetence
Except the girls D2 race cuts against this. Top 2 girls were top 2 in the D/C Sectional. Top two teams were 2 and 3 in the team race.
As for standardization—you paying for it? Ever pay to get a course certified? Ever done it? You know how?
It’s all well and good to grumble on the sidelines, but reality bites. It’s rarely, if ever, laziness.
HS XC is run on few dedicated XC courses. Only one I can think of is UW-Parkside’s course. Probably one or two more.
These sites are used for other things but for one or two races a year. That means they get to be re-marked the day before or sometimes the day of. And changes happen unrelated to XC all the time.
At the end of the day, the only record that counts is the State Finals record. And thankfully it’s been run at Ridges long enough for a good set of comparators.
And, maybe, local “course” records.
Not sure why you’re so hot about this. Any real top-tier runner with any knowledge of their abilities and the sport gets it. Heck, half the mid-pack ones do, too.
Was the D/C CamRock course great? Nah. But, hell, that can be said about soooooo many.
(Back in my day in another state our county weekly races were run at a dedicated park that was an old landfill. Start and run UP up UP the hill of landfilk, down down down, around, up again, finish the 1 mile loop, do it two more and add 0.1 miles on with a finishing chute. Never mind the off-gasing! Ha.)
I don’t disagree with you generally; standardized, certified courses would be preferable. But I also get the reality, and I don’t run an AI company to be able to afford to donate for that statewide.
Was good racing all about. Fun to see the culmination of another XC Season and seeing the fruits of those kids labors.
I was correct in my assessment. Cucko ran a strong race upfront, but 3 of the top 7 came from the portage sectional. Two of those guys were not “projected” top ten due to the Deerfield course being a joke
point blank, wr need standardization. We have short sectional courses and a 47m long state course (as it has been for years now). Just move the start and finish 20 meters a piece and you have a 5k. I know time is irrelevant, but cmon. Get it right. Not sure if they’re protecting Solinskys record, but it’s either laziness, stodgy WIAA Old Heads, or incompetence
Except the girls D2 race cuts against this. Top 2 girls were top 2 in the D/C Sectional. Top two teams were 2 and 3 in the team race.
As for standardization—you paying for it? Ever pay to get a course certified? Ever done it? You know how?
It’s all well and good to grumble on the sidelines, but reality bites. It’s rarely, if ever, laziness.
HS XC is run on few dedicated XC courses. Only one I can think of is UW-Parkside’s course. Probably one or two more.
These sites are used for other things but for one or two races a year. That means they get to be re-marked the day before or sometimes the day of. And changes happen unrelated to XC all the time.
At the end of the day, the only record that counts is the State Finals record. And thankfully it’s been run at Ridges long enough for a good set of comparators.
And, maybe, local “course” records.
Not sure why you’re so hot about this. Any real top-tier runner with any knowledge of their abilities and the sport gets it. Heck, half the mid-pack ones do, too.
Was the D/C CamRock course great? Nah. But, hell, that can be said about soooooo many.
(Back in my day in another state our county weekly races were run at a dedicated park that was an old landfill. Start and run UP up UP the hill of landfilk, down down down, around, up again, finish the 1 mile loop, do it two more and add 0.1 miles on with a finishing chute. Never mind the off-gasing! Ha.)
I don’t disagree with you generally; standardized, certified courses would be preferable. But I also get the reality, and I don’t run an AI company to be able to afford to donate for that statewide.
Was good racing all about. Fun to see the culmination of another XC Season and seeing the fruits of those kids labors.
No it doesnt cut against this. The only thing cut short in this conversation is the Deerfield cross country course.
The too two girls were 54 and 40 seconds slower than their time at sectionals. And for the boys, it's equally ridiculous between 30s faster and 72 seconds faster for the top three boys.
They are not running a full 5k in Doof-field. The course cutting has been done intentionally to populate the state meet program with fast looking times and it is meant to intimidate other sectionals' runners with fabricated 5k times. Enough is enough. It's no different than cheating the heat sheets in track with fabricated times to get into a faster heat.
Some people just dont have any ethics. They know who they are.
No it doesnt cut against this. The only thing cut short in this conversation is the Deerfield cross country course.
The too two girls were 54 and 40 seconds slower than their time at sectionals. And for the boys, it's equally ridiculous between 30s faster and 72 seconds faster for the top three boys.
They are not running a full 5k in Doof-field. The course cutting has been done intentionally to populate the state meet program with fast looking times and it is meant to intimidate other sectionals' runners with fabricated 5k times. Enough is enough. It's no different than cheating the heat sheets in track with fabricated times to get into a faster heat.
Some people just dont have any ethics. They know who they are.
If your argument was that the folks out of this Sectional were not competitive, then it does cut against that argument because the girls out of this Sectional were very competitive.
If your argument is that people should take cross country course times seriously when they are—NATIONALLY—notoriously inexact, even up to Collegiate and Professional levels, then maybe?
Except no serious running kid does this. No serious runner parent does this. No serious coach does this.
Now, I have heard folks grumble about *other* aspects of the D/C course at CamRock—for example, that the turns are too tight or the course narrows too soon or something—and that may be an argument for the course being retired. I dunno. I know my USATF/World Athletics course certification process to some degree, specifically on the roads, but I don't know WIAA's XC course requirements as well.
But, dude, you gotta let this go. This is a lot of carried emotion for a short XC course.
If you feel this strongly then please don't ever run any road races out there. Some of the community fun runs out there make CamRock's XC course look like an exemplar! Ha. And don't ever do a ParkRun.
Look, I'm not saying we shouldn't push for courses to be better measured, more accurate, etc. However, to imply the reason is some plot to intimidate other sectional runners, or some other nefarious thing?
I mean, come on—you really think the top-10 in any of the divisions, girls and boys, are "intimidated" by the times out of ANY sectional? And that's not even taking into consideration that these kids have likely run at least one race against most of their, if not all of their, chief rivals.
The poster doth protest too much, methinks.
It was a fun XC season. Looking forward to seeing the close out with the regional/national NXN/Brooks races, then into the indoor season!
(Oh, and if we're really interested in getting legit 5K times for HS kids, I'm just saying maybe we should bring the 5K back to track! Ha. Maybe throw a 10K in there as well. What could go wrong?)
This post was edited 49 seconds after it was posted.
Reason provided:
fixed grammar/spelling (I hope)
No it doesnt cut against this. The only thing cut short in this conversation is the Deerfield cross country course.
The too two girls were 54 and 40 seconds slower than their time at sectionals. And for the boys, it's equally ridiculous between 30s faster and 72 seconds faster for the top three boys.
They are not running a full 5k in Doof-field. The course cutting has been done intentionally to populate the state meet program with fast looking times and it is meant to intimidate other sectionals' runners with fabricated 5k times. Enough is enough. It's no different than cheating the heat sheets in track with fabricated times to get into a faster heat.
Some people just dont have any ethics. They know who they are.
If your argument was that the folks out of this Sectional were not competitive, then it does cut against that argument because the girls out of this Sectional were very competitive.
If your argument is that people should take cross country course times seriously when they are—NATIONALLY—notoriously inexact, even up to Collegiate and Professional levels, then maybe?
Except no serious running kid does this. No serious runner parent does this. No serious coach does this.
Now, I have heard folks grumble about *other* aspects of the D/C course at CamRock—for example, that the turns are too tight or the course narrows too soon or something—and that may be an argument for the course being retired. I dunno. I know my USATF/World Athletics course certification process to some degree, specifically on the roads, but I don't know WIAA's XC course requirements as well.
But, dude, you gotta let this go. This is a lot of carried emotion for a short XC course.
If you feel this strongly then please don't ever run any road races out there. Some of the community fun runs out there make CamRock's XC course look like an exemplar! Ha. And don't ever do a ParkRun.
Look, I'm not saying we shouldn't push for courses to be better measured, more accurate, etc. However, to imply the reason is some plot to intimidate other sectional runners, or some other nefarious thing?
I mean, come on—you really think the top-10 in any of the divisions, girls and boys, are "intimidated" by the times out of ANY sectional? And that's not even taking into consideration that these kids have likely run at least one race against most of their, if not all of their, chief rivals.
The poster doth protest too much, methinks.
It was a fun XC season. Looking forward to seeing the close out with the regional/national NXN/Brooks races, then into the indoor season!
(Oh, and if we're really interested in getting legit 5K times for HS kids, I'm just saying maybe we should bring the 5K back to track! Ha. Maybe throw a 10K in there as well. What could go wrong?)
At the end of the day, I don't really care about the DF-C course. Just more proof that numbers can indeed lie. Selfishly, I'm glad I could validate myself, haha. Also good proof for my athletes (and every other out there) that time is largely irrelevant in cross.
Courses are the same for everyone; the best still won on the day and the rest of the chips fell proportionally.
I'll still hold onto my gripe that sectional courses should be certified or at least have some sort of standardization process and so should the state course- provided it's staying at the Ridges for the foreseeable future.
I’m confused, you think the WIAA is running a long course to keep current high school kids from beating Solinsky’s record???
That might be the dumbest thing I have heard.
Also, 47 meters too long…not 67 but exactly 47?? And every year…like you certify it every year and it is exactly 47 long each year?
I’m glad to know at least you must not be a coach because as someone who knows the rules so well… Ugh never mind.
Congrats to St. Ambrose, Shorewood, and Stevens Point boys along with the Darlington, Mount Horeb, and Neenah girls.
AND all the athletes who stuck it out for the extra 47 meters this year (especially Lauren McCalla who found a way to overcome the Solinsky record protection plan to somehow set a state record)
I was correct in my assessment. Cucko ran a strong race upfront, but 3 of the top 7 came from the portage sectional. Two of those guys were not “projected” top ten due to the Deerfield course being a joke
point blank, wr need standardization. We have short sectional courses and a 47m long state course (as it has been for years now). Just move the start and finish 20 meters a piece and you have a 5k. I know time is irrelevant, but cmon. Get it right. Not sure if they’re protecting Solinskys record, but it’s either laziness, stodgy WIAA Old Heads, or incompetence
Except the girls D2 race cuts against this. Top 2 girls were top 2 in the D/C Sectional. Top two teams were 2 and 3 in the team race.
As for standardization—you paying for it? Ever pay to get a course certified? Ever done it? You know how?
It’s all well and good to grumble on the sidelines, but reality bites. It’s rarely, if ever, laziness.
HS XC is run on few dedicated XC courses. Only one I can think of is UW-Parkside’s course. Probably one or two more.
These sites are used for other things but for one or two races a year. That means they get to be re-marked the day before or sometimes the day of. And changes happen unrelated to XC all the time.
At the end of the day, the only record that counts is the State Finals record. And thankfully it’s been run at Ridges long enough for a good set of comparators.
And, maybe, local “course” records.
Not sure why you’re so hot about this. Any real top-tier runner with any knowledge of their abilities and the sport gets it. Heck, half the mid-pack ones do, too.
Was the D/C CamRock course great? Nah. But, hell, that can be said about soooooo many.
(Back in my day in another state our county weekly races were run at a dedicated park that was an old landfill. Start and run UP up UP the hill of landfilk, down down down, around, up again, finish the 1 mile loop, do it two more and add 0.1 miles on with a finishing chute. Never mind the off-gasing! Ha.)
I don’t disagree with you generally; standardized, certified courses would be preferable. But I also get the reality, and I don’t run an AI company to be able to afford to donate for that statewide.
Was good racing all about. Fun to see the culmination of another XC Season and seeing the fruits of those kids labors.
Hi sirs, I bring great experierence as local ch-ch-ch-chinese restaurant owner in Marshall. I have some customer who run so I watch results.
In restaurant world, if I serve plate that is short or bad, customer send plate back. If real bad, customer have tough time in bathroom then wont come back and I have to clean up with hose from outside, spray place to smell better for days, k.
If Deerfield course, like bad plate, cause problem, customer leave bad review online. Deerfield course piss off many customer so you get many bad review online.
Except the girls D2 race cuts against this. Top 2 girls were top 2 in the D/C Sectional. Top two teams were 2 and 3 in the team race.
As for standardization—you paying for it? Ever pay to get a course certified? Ever done it? You know how?
It’s all well and good to grumble on the sidelines, but reality bites. It’s rarely, if ever, laziness.
HS XC is run on few dedicated XC courses. Only one I can think of is UW-Parkside’s course. Probably one or two more.
These sites are used for other things but for one or two races a year. That means they get to be re-marked the day before or sometimes the day of. And changes happen unrelated to XC all the time.
At the end of the day, the only record that counts is the State Finals record. And thankfully it’s been run at Ridges long enough for a good set of comparators.
And, maybe, local “course” records.
Not sure why you’re so hot about this. Any real top-tier runner with any knowledge of their abilities and the sport gets it. Heck, half the mid-pack ones do, too.
Was the D/C CamRock course great? Nah. But, hell, that can be said about soooooo many.
(Back in my day in another state our county weekly races were run at a dedicated park that was an old landfill. Start and run UP up UP the hill of landfilk, down down down, around, up again, finish the 1 mile loop, do it two more and add 0.1 miles on with a finishing chute. Never mind the off-gasing! Ha.)
I don’t disagree with you generally; standardized, certified courses would be preferable. But I also get the reality, and I don’t run an AI company to be able to afford to donate for that statewide.
Was good racing all about. Fun to see the culmination of another XC Season and seeing the fruits of those kids labors.
Hi sirs, I bring great experierence as local ch-ch-ch-chinese restaurant owner in Marshall. I have some customer who run so I watch results.
In restaurant world, if I serve plate that is short or bad, customer send plate back. If real bad, customer have tough time in bathroom then wont come back and I have to clean up with hose from outside, spray place to smell better for days, k.
If Deerfield course, like bad plate, cause problem, customer leave bad review online. Deerfield course piss off many customer so you get many bad review online.
Fix course, it solve problem.
Now try to convince Drew Bosley to move out there and make more money than he ever did as a pro runner.
Come on, the individual posting this has always had a beef with the Deer/Camb coach and some others around the state. This type of crap gets to be childish and petty. You want to criticize the course for being short? Fine. But to call a HS coach a drunken doofus and call them unethical? Stop having a hard on over tearing down others. The Deer/Camb coach is fresh off of coaching a two time state champ and recently won a state title in track. I highly doubt they are worried about purposely filling the state program with state times. And since the OP has also attacked coaches at Wisconsin Lutheran, Whitewater and Lodi, both Coaches Associations and a few of our timing companies state wide, the lesson here is to teach him to stop being a Grade 1 Top notch a hole.