Solinsky finished at his best 3rd (to Tariku Bekele/Merga) and 5th in Diamond League. Even with time inflation, this is a better performance than Solinsky ever mustered. It's imprecise, but around 1.5s per Kilometer seems about right at these speeds.
How is this not completely arbitrary?
It is arbitrary, and the way he phrased it makes it sound pseudoscientific. That said, I tend to agree with him that adding ~7 seconds to the times makes it seem typical of a comparable DL 5k of 10-15 years ago (if we can assume today’s talent is similar, which actually we can’t).
Virtually perfect 5k conditions.
Stacked field.
Ambitious (but not WR, evidently) pace goal but a brief slowdown in the 4th K.
A DL 5k like this may have been won in 12:52 10-15 years ago. Maybe faster, who knows: there was that 2012 Paris 5k where a bunch of guys ran sub-12:50 PBs, led by Gebremeskel and Gebrhiwet in 12:46/12:47. Gebrhiwet ran 12:46.82 today.
If we apply this arbitrary “conversion,” Nico is still winning a stacked DL in low-12:50s with a great kick, Blanks is mixing it up at 12:55, Teare is a bit off the back at 13:04.
But whatever, shoes and tracks get faster and that was then and this is now. It doesn’t “ruin the sport” or anything crazy.
It's weird how Africans have disintegrated. I guess their anti-doping program is working! These guys used to be supermen. Well on the roads they still may be, LMAO!
Yes. I want to understand this.
Is is the drug testing? Or is the money is on the roads? Or is it coaching?
8 African-born guys ran 12:51 or faster today, with 5 Ethiopians from 12:45-12:49. So while I think your question has some validity, the much bigger change here is the Americans and George Mills running wayyy better than any Americans and Brits were running 20 years ago.
What bouncy shoes did he wear? I’ll be sure to pick up a pair.
You can tell this clown has never run in the Ambitions and doesn't know they aren't bouncy. Despite this embarrassment, he still goes on to mouth off polluting the rest of this thread with more idiotic comments.
Funny how people who complain about "superspikes" always demonstrate a lack of the most basic understanding of them.
Is is the drug testing? Or is the money is on the roads? Or is it coaching?
8 African-born guys ran 12:51 or faster today, with 5 Ethiopians from 12:45-12:49. So while I think your question has some validity, the much bigger change here is the Americans and George Mills running wayyy better than any Americans and Brits were running 20 years ago.
The obvious explanation is that more Western distance runners are living and training at altitude for longer periods. Going back even just 10 years, Western distance runners were still largely going on altitude camps for a few weeks or months. The East African runners were born at altitude and spending most of the year there, living and training. Things have changed now. George Mills uprooted his life and now pretty much lives at altitude all year round. Grant Fisher moved his life to altitude as well.
Again, I know Western runners have known about the benefits of altitude for decades, but they haven't generally committed to it year round up until relatively recently.
This is all to say that "East African genetics", which some have liked to talk about, is a massive red herring. All top distance runners have freakish genetics, regardless of where they are born. But some benefit from advantageous environmental factors. That's been evened out now.
8 African-born guys ran 12:51 or faster today, with 5 Ethiopians from 12:45-12:49. So while I think your question has some validity, the much bigger change here is the Americans and George Mills running wayyy better than any Americans and Brits were running 20 years ago.
The obvious explanation is that more Western distance runners are living and training at altitude for longer periods. Going back even just 10 years, Western distance runners were still largely going on altitude camps for a few weeks or months. The East African runners were born at altitude and spending most of the year there, living and training. Things have changed now. George Mills uprooted his life and now pretty much lives at altitude all year round. Grant Fisher moved his life to altitude as well.
Again, I know Western runners have known about the benefits of altitude for decades, but they haven't generally committed to it year round up until relatively recently.
This is all to say that "East African genetics", which some have liked to talk about, is a massive red herring. All top distance runners have freakish genetics, regardless of where they are born. But some benefit from advantageous environmental factors. That's been evened out now.
According to other posters it's bicarb or shoes. But it's never doping.
The obvious explanation is that more Western distance runners are living and training at altitude for longer periods. Going back even just 10 years, Western distance runners were still largely going on altitude camps for a few weeks or months. The East African runners were born at altitude and spending most of the year there, living and training. Things have changed now. George Mills uprooted his life and now pretty much lives at altitude all year round. Grant Fisher moved his life to altitude as well.
Again, I know Western runners have known about the benefits of altitude for decades, but they haven't generally committed to it year round up until relatively recently.
This is all to say that "East African genetics", which some have liked to talk about, is a massive red herring. All top distance runners have freakish genetics, regardless of where they are born. But some benefit from advantageous environmental factors. That's been evened out now.
According to other posters it's bicarb or shoes. But it's never doping.
8 African-born guys ran 12:51 or faster today, with 5 Ethiopians from 12:45-12:49. So while I think your question has some validity, the much bigger change here is the Americans and George Mills running wayyy better than any Americans and Brits were running 20 years ago.
The obvious explanation is that more Western distance runners are living and training at altitude for longer periods. Going back even just 10 years, Western distance runners were still largely going on altitude camps for a few weeks or months. The East African runners were born at altitude and spending most of the year there, living and training. Things have changed now. George Mills uprooted his life and now pretty much lives at altitude all year round. Grant Fisher moved his life to altitude as well.
Again, I know Western runners have known about the benefits of altitude for decades, but they haven't generally committed to it year round up until relatively recently.
This is all to say that "East African genetics", which some have liked to talk about, is a massive red herring. All top distance runners have freakish genetics, regardless of where they are born. But some benefit from advantageous environmental factors. That's been evened out now.
That’s your f****ing opinion girl. Ever bears of the eastern oriental adage:
“To anything that brings an advantage ti the same is by default paired with a disadvantaged so that no man nor entity can elevate himself higher and stronger than the other.”
Thus adage means every up side has a downside so that the net value always mutually annihilates to zero ( equilibrium).
People born and lived trained at altitude should never run faster or slower than those at sea level. The eastern adage applies for all things including distance running, all other things being equal being the main assumption here. If country A has just a big a land mass and forest reserve for living training as country B but at a different elevation both still has the ability to provide equally fast distance runners according to eastern adage
The obvious explanation is that more Western distance runners are living and training at altitude for longer periods. Going back even just 10 years, Western distance runners were still largely going on altitude camps for a few weeks or months. The East African runners were born at altitude and spending most of the year there, living and training. Things have changed now. George Mills uprooted his life and now pretty much lives at altitude all year round. Grant Fisher moved his life to altitude as well.
Again, I know Western runners have known about the benefits of altitude for decades, but they haven't generally committed to it year round up until relatively recently.
This is all to say that "East African genetics", which some have liked to talk about, is a massive red herring. All top distance runners have freakish genetics, regardless of where they are born. But some benefit from advantageous environmental factors. That's been evened out now.
According to other posters it's bicarb or shoes. But it's never doping.
I consider then all glorified doping. I’m a purist and I want what’s best for the spirit.
According to who? Ritz was a distant 3rd in his race, Nico just beat a world class field while closing in 55 to win a Diamond League (Which Ritz never did).
Exactly. Improved training methods aren’t getting attention, never mind Nico simply being faster in HS before super-shoes. Give the kid his due, Nico won the friggin’ race against a stacked field and we saw three Americans break 13:00.
And I was at the Zurich Weltklasse meet around 30 years ago when Kennedy ran sub- 13 and he was something like fifth or sixth behind Komen and Gebreselassie, who ran in the 1240s -- a great performance by Kennedy but it doesn't compare with winning a race against the best in the world.
Here's an updated age and PB comparison of Nico, Rupp, and Fisher, which I initially shared in the thread announcing Nico's addition to the Oslo field.
This shows how Rupp, Fisher, and Nico compare in their PBs at 3k, 5k, and 10k starting with the years they turned (YTT) 18, with the caveat that Rupp didn't have super shoes and wavelight before his transition to the marathon, and Fisher didn't have them until his early to mid 20s. The fastest in each event for each year is in bold.
YTT 18: Rupp 8:03, 13:37, 29:09 | Fisher 8:32, NA, NA | Nico 7:56, 13:44, NA
YTT 19: Rupp 7:49, 13:37, 28:15 | Fisher 7:50, 13:30, NA | Nico 7:56, 13:22, NA
YTT 20: Rupp 7:49, 13:37, 28:15 | Fisher 7:50, 13:30, NA | Nico 7:56, 13:11, NA
YTT 21: Rupp 7:49, 13:30, 27:33 | Fisher 7:48, 13:30, NA | Nico 7:37, 13:11, NA
As I wrote before: Even taking into account today's tech advantages, it's amazing to see how far Nico has been ahead of Rupp and Fisher at the same ages.
And now, Nico is faster at YHT 23 than Fisher was until this year, YHT 28.
now do Mehary.
That would require actual verification of Mehary’s age.
It is arbitrary, and the way he phrased it makes it sound pseudoscientific. That said, I tend to agree with him that adding ~7 seconds to the times makes it seem typical of a comparable DL 5k of 10-15 years ago (if we can assume today’s talent is similar, which actually we can’t).
Virtually perfect 5k conditions.
Stacked field.
Ambitious (but not WR, evidently) pace goal but a brief slowdown in the 4th K.
A DL 5k like this may have been won in 12:52 10-15 years ago. Maybe faster, who knows: there was that 2012 Paris 5k where a bunch of guys ran sub-12:50 PBs, led by Gebremeskel and Gebrhiwet in 12:46/12:47. Gebrhiwet ran 12:46.82 today.
If we apply this arbitrary “conversion,” Nico is still winning a stacked DL in low-12:50s with a great kick, Blanks is mixing it up at 12:55, Teare is a bit off the back at 13:04.
But whatever, shoes and tracks get faster and that was then and this is now. It doesn’t “ruin the sport” or anything crazy.
Also his form. So much better today compared to basically any race in HS or college.
I agree that his form has improved. If you look at some of his high school or college races his face looks like he's in extreme pain and his form wasn't as good as it was today.
Somewhere around 12-18 months ago or so there was a NAU workout or two on youtube where Mike Smith mentions that they were working with Nico on his form. The form work and countless miles have definitely paid off.
Ask Haile Gibrselassie how Jos Herman used a whip to rip that right arm of his into proper order for 10 years and failed. Haile’s form at the 1990 Boston world juniors was the same at 2013 great north run. That’s how we know run firm never changes qualitatively. You may be able to have ‘better form’ in terms of larger or faster range of motion of but the fundamental sequence of those never changes and us your fingerprint.
Mike smith revealed to us what a liar he is. Young’s form had never changes due to any physical work done on it that had evolve naturally with time but due to illegal pharmacological enhancements.
you can conceal it or obfuscate your fingerprint with pharma but you can’t just by simply eating well sleeping and training awesome.
The physics of it dun lie. I can’t be challenged on this unless counter invoke with another competing physics.
It's weird how Africans have disintegrated. I guess their anti-doping program is working! These guys used to be supermen. Well on the roads they still may be, LMAO!
Yes. I want to understand this.
Is is the drug testing? Or is the money is on the roads? Or is it coaching?
The generational African right now in the history of Geb, Bekele etc is Cheptegei who is both coached by a Westerner and trying the roads. The guys in the void are good runners but not special (Yomif, Barega, Krop, Hagos).
I didn’t read all the posts, and maybe someone said the same thing, but by the time of the race, it was no longer a WR attempt. The pacing lights were set for about 12:50.