I think a very important fact we must look at is how much the world changed for those closest to Jesus before/after his death and resurrection. Before we dive into prayer and how God relates to His people we must look back. Jesus’s closest disciples went from fear of the world and denying him the night of his death (Peter) to vouching for him and spreading his gospel to their own death.
How can we account for this? Jesus is said to have appeared to hundreds of people following his resurrection and another of his disciples (Thomas) says that he won’t believe unless he touches the holes in Jesus’s hands where he was nailed to the cross. Jesus then tells Thomas to go right ahead.
BC Jewish society was religiously fervent and very uncommon to what we know nowadays. People would fast and pray on the Sabbath - Saturday weekly. This went on for thousands of years and then one man, claiming to be fully God and fully human came to Earth performing miracles and telling people to repent of their sins. He lived the perfect live, died the perfect death, and rose from it. Overnight the culture was flipped on its head and Sunday became the Sabbath day for these newfound Christians.
I don’t have a perfect answer to why bad things happen or why not all of our prayers were answered. But for those that want to make scientific arguments, there is very clear evidence that Jesus Christ was alive on Earth, died, and rose again. If we base this as our new starting point hopefully then we can start to answer more in-depth questions about God’s relationship with His people (everyone- not just Christians)
Sorry, but there is no evidence that Jesus rose from the dead. None whatsoever that would pass unbiased scrutiny. I don't hold your faith against you. Good for you. But to claim that there is some sort scientific evidence that Jesus rose from the dead is silly at best.
I am genuinely curious about this, please don't use this to mock religion. If you give all glory to God for all the great things in your life, that is fine by me. But what about when things aren't going right, why does the goal post move to 'God is testing me, making me stronger'? Like why can't God be wrong sometimes and called out for it? I just saw a friend on Facebook had the winning bid on a house and they thanked God for answering their prayers. What about all the people who didn't get the house and they might've prayed too? I just don't understand why God works for some but not others. And then if the house goes into foreclosure he is nowhere to be found.
It's widely accepted that some of God's greatest gifts are, in fact, unanswered prayers.
Remember when you're talking to the "man up there," that . . . just because he may not answer, that by itself isn't an indication that he doesn't care.
This post was edited 40 seconds after it was posted.
Reason provided:
swapped "regarded" for "accepted" (diction)
How is that supposed to work for a two year old orphan with a brain tumor?
Whose relationship is He developing? And how are those agonizing final 18 months of that child's life what she "needs" in order to have a relationship with God? If God was omnipotent, He would (by definition) be able to think of better ways to develop relationships with His creation.
Sorry, not buying it.
The death of a child (and I've experienced it) is very difficult for the child and the family. But every one of us will die. This is not heaven. Those who have cooperated with the God-given Faith can accept all of the suffering of this life, knowing how fleeting it is and how eternal the next life is.
This is heaven and hell and purgatory. 1 2 3. The issue is the devil controls words and cant destroy the words, so it changes the definitions to confuse.
Heaven is never perfect, it never was, this is the devils story. Heaven was perfect and also full of demons, humans, angels etc.
But also, Hell is not what hell was supposed to be. Hell is not that bad - its more associated in reality with purgatory. Its not pure bliss, but its not eternal torture.
You see - heaven and hell exist, you just need to realize the definitions were changed by language from the "real" thing. God also is real, but different.
When you figure it out, you see we are in heaven, and hell and everything in between - and then you will be in true "Paradise" because you will have the proper isomorphic relation to the core axioms.
The devil was smart, it controls the world but new eventually humans would see it and write stories about it and gain control - so instead of fighting that, the devil created the bible and in it it put itself as the "devil" and God as God being more powerful, but this was genius because it allowed the devil to control God and the narrative. it was genius, so now the devil controls people, because they think it doesnt rule the world. Think about it, it makes more sense to lie with a bit of truth, and if you think people are going to overthrow you- start the rebellion first (create the bible) and lead the peoples rebellion against youself. You cant glorify God with the bible or words, words (like these) are the devils domain.
God is more associated with the body, silence. When you speak, you kill God.
Just your creative genius here, telling you whats up. Anyone who thinks the bible was "divinely written" again you got it half right, as the devil is also divine lol. I'm glad I figured life out before i die, so now i realize i never die. You become eternal, when you know what i do.
just think about it, the greatest story of all time, would show the devil as the Zuez of our world and it like plays with us. I have gotten past the shock that the devil wrote the bible and control words, and now its rather humorous. You see all these people quoting the bible and I just see Lucifer smiling, but he doesnt have me! ha!
If someone talks of God - run! if they give you a book - burn it! God is always a private experience you cant share - in that sense this was all nonsense regarding God, yes you can know the devil (which is why it says you can know god in bible) but it was never about God.
I believe, but admittedly there has to be something missing or off about the story we’re told. The problem of divine foreknowledge, creation, and the suffering that is rampant, can’t be reconciled with the simple story of…you did something bad and now God is giving you another chance. There are dualist cosmologies that might make better sense of the facts we have. Interestingly, most of the early Christians were gnostics (before it became more of an organized religion).
this guy is on the right track - but unfortunately you sound sane. If the crowd is false, when you find truth - they will call you stupid, evil, or insane. Now the indoctrination has grown and power and true "evil" and they call it pharma and wallstreet lol. If you are smart you can have more power, but its only through thinking and genius. like some of the great philosophers like me
I am genuinely curious about this, please don't use this to mock religion. If you give all glory to God for all the great things in your life, that is fine by me. But what about when things aren't going right, why does the goal post move to 'God is testing me, making me stronger'? Like why can't God be wrong sometimes and called out for it? I just saw a friend on Facebook had the winning bid on a house and they thanked God for answering their prayers. What about all the people who didn't get the house and they might've prayed too? I just don't understand why God works for some but not others. And then if the house goes into foreclosure he is nowhere to be found.
God can't be wrong....otherwise He isn't God. if you think God can be wrong, you don't know God, you have an incorrect view of who God is or He's hidden from you.
A non-answer to pray....is an answer, just not the one you wanted.
The purpose of life is not to have everything "go right"
Bro - God can be wrong. The devil wrote the bible and most things about God. You should try to think more for yourself- or do you just copy paste others definitions of things and not think?
Logically - if you read the bible and build an axiomatic system to figure out whats going on - you see its logical God and the Devil exist as they are fundamental axioms of the language- but then youll see the words and values and functions can be switched around into several equal isomorphic maps - but only 1 makes sense relative to "being" and thats the one where the devil is actually god of the universe- and the "real god" is beyond good or evil. your conceptions of good and evil are tied so closely to "God" its hilarious.
This whole board acts like a group of sensitive children - you just are afraid of some truths, so you ignore them and think defensively. God is beyond your understanding lol but you use human concepts to try to locate god - at best you can create a langauge and see all and then in it - it will point you to God. its like if you can understand the "theory of everything" it creates a map and you will see parts of God coming from the next dimension - thats all it gives you. A perfect genius -can just glimpse the next dimension - and you will see God. its wonderful. If you are a genius -1 like Einstein, you can only see into our world, not to the next thing. God is outside the infinite loop, the Devil is inside.
Most on this board are ignorant with God. You can see it when people talk about God, like yu obviously never intellectually chased emptiness, if you did you would understand God. What do you think is going on now? lol, i can't get over this "if God existed people wouldnt be hurt" lol ok, or maybe its a God, so by definition its you and knows more - like you cut off your finger cuz its killing the body from cancer- god kills people the same way. the thing is infinitely powerful compared to you, but dang does anyone understand infinity here - it has limits! lol. God is infinite - but then when you see God, its just another thing trying to save its creation. Like you scared weak runners - so terrified of seeing a God and then understanding its also just like you, ooooooo i guess that would make you fearful, your egos would be so broken lol. Byeeeee
The reason God is only credited for the good things that happen is because God is all good and can do no wrong. Due to the fact that the world is in a fallen state, not everything is perfect, there are going to be stumbling blocks that the devil tries to throw at you. God wants us to ask for good things, but He doesn't always give it to us because it may not be best for our walk with Him.
While it may seem God works for some but not others, not everyone asks for what they want or placed their faith in Him. As stated in James 4:2 "...You do not have because you do not ask God..."
In your example you state that if a house went into foreclosure that God is nowhere to be found, but God may have prevented something bad from happening or helped more good come out of the situation. We see things on a much smaller scale then God, He knows the affect of all the decisions we could make, so if the affect is bad, God will prevent us from getting what we asked for.
Not all the things that happen on Earth are from God, but may be from the devil who is trying to lead everyone down a wrong path.
It is illogical to think that a perfect, all-knowing God could make mistakes, then He wouldn't be perfect.
I am genuinely curious about this, please don't use this to mock religion. If you give all glory to God for all the great things in your life, that is fine by me. But what about when things aren't going right, why does the goal post move to 'God is testing me, making me stronger'? Like why can't God be wrong sometimes and called out for it? I just saw a friend on Facebook had the winning bid on a house and they thanked God for answering their prayers. What about all the people who didn't get the house and they might've prayed too? I just don't understand why God works for some but not others. And then if the house goes into foreclosure he is nowhere to be found.
It's widely accepted that some of God's greatest gifts are, in fact, unanswered prayers.
Remember when you're talking to the "man up there," that . . . just because he may not answer, that by itself isn't an indication that he doesn't care.
This is so weird. So if you have children and your children call out to you asking you for something and you totally ignore them, refusing to answer their calls, that is you indicating to them that you care about them? Really?
I think a very important fact we must look at is how much the world changed for those closest to Jesus before/after his death and resurrection. Before we dive into prayer and how God relates to His people we must look back. Jesus’s closest disciples went from fear of the world and denying him the night of his death (Peter) to vouching for him and spreading his gospel to their own death.
How can we account for this? Jesus is said to have appeared to hundreds of people following his resurrection and another of his disciples (Thomas) says that he won’t believe unless he touches the holes in Jesus’s hands where he was nailed to the cross. Jesus then tells Thomas to go right ahead.
BC Jewish society was religiously fervent and very uncommon to what we know nowadays. People would fast and pray on the Sabbath - Saturday weekly. This went on for thousands of years and then one man, claiming to be fully God and fully human came to Earth performing miracles and telling people to repent of their sins. He lived the perfect live, died the perfect death, and rose from it. Overnight the culture was flipped on its head and Sunday became the Sabbath day for these newfound Christians.
I don’t have a perfect answer to why bad things happen or why not all of our prayers were answered. But for those that want to make scientific arguments, there is very clear evidence that Jesus Christ was alive on Earth, died, and rose again. If we base this as our new starting point hopefully then we can start to answer more in-depth questions about God’s relationship with His people (everyone- not just Christians)
Sorry, but there is no evidence that Jesus rose from the dead. None whatsoever that would pass unbiased scrutiny. I don't hold your faith against you. Good for you. But to claim that there is some sort scientific evidence that Jesus rose from the dead is silly at best.
His Apostles and others bore witness that they saw him after his death.
Because we often ask for things not in our or others best interest.
Sure, if I pray to have a bunch of people drop dead, I get it, God is not answering that one.
No, I mean what if we pray for unsaved sinners to find peace and to love the Lord. And what if even the sinner himself starts praying for strength and a relationship with God that is stronger than their addiction but instead they commit a murder to buy drugs?
Why didn't God answer that kind of prayer before the murder of the innocent toddler by the above mentioned drug addict who had prayed every night to be free from his addiction? Now the sinner (who had been praying) is in Hell for murder and the kid is dead. Is that anyone's idea of a good system?
p.s. Please don't say "God works in mysterious ways."
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
I can sense your passion in your post describing the essence of the Christian faith, but there are several logical inconsistencies that merit attention:
1. Unconditional Love vs. Conditional Salvation You describe God's love as unconditional and inescapable, yet simultaneously assert that belief in Jesus is necessary for eternal life. If God's love truly has no conditions, requiring belief for salvation appears contradictory. How can love be both without prerequisites and yet dependent on faith?
2. Faith Alone vs. Importance of Works While you emphasize that salvation is achieved through faith alone and that no amount of good deeds can earn it, you also stress the importance of living in a way that reflects Christ's teachings. This creates confusion about the role of actions—if works don't contribute to salvation, why highlight their significance in demonstrating genuine faith?
3. Divine Perfection vs. Relational Desire You portray God as perfectly desiring a relationship with inherently imperfect humans. This raises a theological dilemma: How can a perfect being maintain a relationship with flawed individuals without compromising His perfection? It seems challenging to reconcile divine perfection with the need for relational interaction with imperfect beings.
4. Universal Love vs. Selective Salvation Your message conveys that God's love is universal and inescapable, yet eternal life is presented as attainable only through belief in Jesus. This selective pathway to salvation within the framework of universal love poses questions about the inclusivity of God's love. How does universal love align with the exclusivity of salvation through a specific belief?
5. Human Agency vs. Divine Initiative While you highlight God's initiative in desiring a relationship and offering salvation, you also state that human acknowledgment and acceptance are necessary. This interplay can seem inconsistent—if God's desire is truly unconditional, why is human action required to fulfill that relationship?
6. Authentic Representation of Faith You critique believers for not authentically representing Christianity while advocating that faith alone secures salvation. This suggests that genuine faith must be accompanied by specific behaviors, which can undermine the assertion that salvation is solely based on faith without works.
How do you (or Christians in general) reconcile these?
I'll try to take a crack at these. Not an expert, just as I understand things...
1. Unconditional love vs conditional salvation. Think of the parable of the prodigal son. The landowner gave his son his share of the land (his inheritance) when he asked for it. The landowner loved his son enough to give it to him even though the prodigal son was turning his back on his father. The son blew the inheritance on wild living and eventually came slinking back to his father wanting just to be treated as a hired servant. But the father welcomed the son back with joy and honored him. I think God is like the landowner here, wanting us to be with Him but giving us the freedom to turn our backs on Him. God is loving but also just and Holy. We can't be in Heaven unless we are cleansed of our sin. Jesus paid the price for our sin but we have to accept that gift. God will welcome us if we do.
2. Faith alone vs importance of works. It's a really good question, something I've grappled with from time to time. The gospel of John says by faith we are saved. The book of James says faith without works is dead. Maybe it means that it is by faith that we're saved, but works are a manifestation of faith. Let's say you decide to put your trust in Jesus. Then you decide you want to volunteer to help some people in the new year as an expression of your faith. But before you can start, you die suddenly. Are you saved? I don't know, It's not my call, but I would guess you're faith is sufficient. But if you've been a "believer" for twenty years and never done any good works, maybe you're faith is dead.
3. Divine perfection. Jesus said that we are not defiled by what goes into us (say, eating "unclean" food) but rather by what comes out of us (lies, hatred, etc..). Praying to God does not defile Him. It seems nonsensical to even consider that God could be defiled.
4. Universal Love vs. Selective Salvation. See #1.
5. Human Agency vs. Divine Initiative. Don't really know, but see #1. And if a guy asks a gal to marry him, there is joy in experiencing her acceptance of the invitation. If she turns him down he still loves her. Jesus has been described as the Bridegroom and his believers the bride. He wants us to accept the invitation.
6. Authentic Representation of Faith. Not really sure what that is. We are all sinners. It has been said that sharing one's faith is like one beggar telling another beggar where to find food.