I haven't read all of this thread, and I wasn't even very familiar with who Georgia Bell was before the Olympics, but I agree that her progression appears to be ridiculous.
However, if it is the case she is doping and that's the reason for her improvement, then just like with Paula Radcliffe, it does show that whenever a talented Brit dopes, then they are more than a match for the best East African dopers, and the idea of 'natural advantage' is again proven a myth.
I also think it's funny how it keeps getting pointed out here that UK athletics had an association with Salazar, and that this proves 'the Brits are dirty'. Hopefully the same people would accept that if that's true, then the Americans are 'dirtier than dirty'? I seem to recall that it was a BBC documentary that started the exposure and downfall of Salazar. And that several years ago, Laura Muir was forced to drop her new American physiotherapist or whatever, simply because he once worked for Salazar.
Guys she is legit. Stop hating and don't be sexist
If she is doping (she's not) then it will all come out (but she's not so it won't). Let the experts handle it and let's all enjoy watching this unique talent!
They are always a "unique talent". Until they get busted.
Guys she is legit. Stop hating and don't be sexist
If she is doping (she's not) then it will all come out (but she's not so it won't). Let the experts handle it and let's all enjoy watching this unique talent!
They are always a "unique talent". Until they get busted.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that she's the only professional athlete who has ever knocked 11 seconds off her 1500m pb whilst in her 30's. The fact that both pbs were within 6 months of each other is even more baffling. Unique indeed.
Indeed I do and he helped my career a lot by getting me races in the UK and abroad. He didn't need to help me evade testing as I wasn't doping ;-). It would be extremely naïve to assume that doping has been eradicated post-AN, it's just been driven underground and is more discreet and sophisticated.
Thanks for the book recommendation btw, I didn't know about that but will definitely get a copy now.
I hadn't heard of the book either, and a quick Google revealed it's available to borrow for free online.
I haven't read all of this thread, and I wasn't even very familiar with who Georgia Bell was before the Olympics, but I agree that her progression appears to be ridiculous.
However, if it is the case she is doping and that's the reason for her improvement, then just like with Paula Radcliffe, it does show that whenever a talented Brit must dopes, to be then they are more than a match for the best East African runners dopers, and's the idea of 'natural advantage' is again proven a myth.
I also think it's funny how it keeps getting pointed out here that UK athletics had an association with Salazar, and that this proves 'the Brits are dirty'. Hopefully the same people would accept that if that's true, then the Americans are 'dirtier than dirty'? I seem to recall that it was a BBC documentary that started the exposure and downfall of Salazar. And that several years ago, Laura Muir was forced to drop her new American physiotherapist or whatever, simply because he once worked for Salazar.
Quit trying to promote your vastly inferior athletes as elite and world class without doping, they have to resort to doping to be remotely competitive , case in point; 31 year old george bell.
Guys she is legit. Stop hating and don't be sexist
If she is doping (she's not) then it will all come out (but she's not so it won't). Let the experts handle it and let's all enjoy watching this unique talent!
They are always a "unique talent". Until they get busted.
She has a very strange running style as well,so i noticed. Also she improved her 800 pb from 2.04,to 1.56.
Russia's athletes are devastated and the country's sporting establishment discredited by an Olympic doping scandal that had its origins in the Cold War and the Soviet era.
11.09.1993 Qu Yunxia runs 3:50.46, Wang Junxia runs 3:51.92, Zhang Linli runs 3:57.46, Wang Renmei runs 3:58.64, Liu Li runs 3:59.34, Zhang Lirong runs 3:59.70, and Wang Yuan runs 3:59.81, all in Beijing.
18.10.1997 Jiang Bo runs 3:50.98, Lang Yinglai runs 3:51.34, Yin Lili runs 3:53.91, Lan Lixin runs 3:53.97, Zhang Ling runs 3:54.52, Dong Yanmei runs 3:55.07, Liu Jing runs 3:57.77, Qu Yunxia runs 3:57.83, and Liu Dong runs 3:58.18, all in Shanghai. Three years later the Chinese Olympic Committee removes the coach Ma Junren and six of his seven runners from the Sydney Olympics team.
Until Genzebe Dibaba ran 3:50.07 at the 2015 Monaco Diamond League, the above performances of Kazankina, Qu and Lang, for whom we also have 800m PBs, were exceptional when compared to all other performances on the 1500m all-time list. Athletes with elite 800m speed (Kazankina 1:54.94 / Qu 1:56.24 / Lang 1:57.62) typically carried 2–3% less of their speed up to the 1500m than this trio. So when their houses of cards collapsed, it would've been no surprise to astute track followers.
BARCELONA, Spain (AP) — The coach of world 1,500-meter champion Genzebe Dibaba and other long-distance runners was arrested near Barcelona on Monday after Spanish police raided his hotel room and found traces of EPO and other...
But then super shoes came along, and Sifan ran 3:51.95 to win the 2019 World Champs (where Shelby ran 3:54.99 and didn't medal), Faith ran 3:51.07 at the 2021 Monaco Diamond League (and 3:49.11 at the 2023 Florence Diamond League), Gudaf ran 3:50.30 at the 2024 Xiamen Diamond League, Jess ran 3:50.83 at the 2024 Paris Diamond League, and Diribe ran 3:52.75 and didn't medal at the 2024 Olympics. By 2021, Shelby was banned.
United States distance runner Shelby Houlihan says she was suspended for a positive steroid test -- a result she says came from eating a tainted pork burrito.
Laura ran 3:55.22 at the 2016 Paris Diamond League, age 23 and pre-super shoes (?), and 3:53.37 at the 2024 Olympics, age 31. Georgia ran 3:52.61 and medalled at the 2024 Olympics, off a 1:56.28 800m at the London Diamond League three weeks prior. Compared to the performances listed in the previous paragraph, Laura and Georgia's 1500m times are far better than we would expect when compared with those of a similar 800m ability on the 1500m all-time list (e.g. Kelly Holmes), but are nowhere near as egregious as the "above the line" performances of Gudaf, Faith, Genzebe and Jess.
It's interesting to note that a number of previous above the line performers received doping bans, namely Kazankina, Houlihan, Ayhan-Kop and Alaoui Selsouli, whilst Qu and Lang were removed from the sport. As she never ran sub-2:02 for 800m, this chart excludes super doper Asli Cakir Alptekin.
We're in an era where above the line performances have become normalised, and the explanation is super shoes. Perhaps athletes like Bell and Muir would be on the line, rather than above it, without the shoes, whilst Snowden and Walcott-Nolan would be below the line, rather than on it.
But until Gudaf, Faith and Jess show a marked improvement in their 800m PBs, the chart will sure remain funny-looking, because the Soviets went hard on the doping and a number were banned, but the majority of those red highlighted Soviet names are below the line, not above it.
So either the drugs of the past didn't work, they just made them worse, or the super shoes only really, really work for the select few that happen to be hoarding all the medals.
This post was edited 27 seconds after it was posted.
I haven't read all of this thread, and I wasn't even very familiar with who Georgia Bell was before the Olympics, but I agree that her progression appears to be ridiculous.
However, if it is the case she is doping and that's the reason for her improvement, then just like with Paula Radcliffe, it does show that whenever a talented Brit dopes, then they are more than a match for the best East African dopers, and the idea of 'natural advantage' is again proven a myth.
I also think it's funny how it keeps getting pointed out here that UK athletics had an association with Salazar, and that this proves 'the Brits are dirty'. Hopefully the same people would accept that if that's true, then the Americans are 'dirtier than dirty'? I seem to recall that it was a BBC documentary that started the exposure and downfall of Salazar. And that several years ago, Laura Muir was forced to drop her new American physiotherapist or whatever, simply because he once worked for Salazar.
So, any talented Brit who dopes reaches the absolute top, correct? Are Brits genetically more gifted for distance running than the rest?
I’m suspicious of her vast improvement but her stride is a powerful, efficient one. Not awkwardly leaning back and “deceptive” like Bell’s.
Bell has Kipyegon’s efficient arm-carriage style, with a smooth symmetrical stride. Maybe her sway-back (putting the head back over the hips) compensates for being hunched over a Swift bike several hours per week:
Your side-angle shot obscures it but her arms go far more side-to-side in a raking motion than Kipyegon's. She looks like she could touch her opposite shoulder with her hand on each stride. I don't doubt her biking does account for the leaning-backward part.
So, any talented Brit who dopes reaches the absolute top, correct? Are Brits genetically more gifted for distance running than the rest?
Not just Brits, El G, Morceli etc, and if you want to believe that Jakob is doping.
There are many factors that go into distance running success other than genes. The point is that the idea that East Africans have special genes is a nonsense.
20 years ago if you told me the Georgia Bell story without giving me the school specifics, I would have guessed she went to Cal. I still have a hard time believing she improved like she did naturally, but it's just so Cal for a top tier running talent to be wildly underperforming for them.
She's a prominent heelstriker (the only heelstriker to medal in a track event at the olympics) and the new shoes help heelstrikers more than normal good forefoot runners
