Lydiardism or Coe-Martinism???

mostly wrong tamara. try again.

Tamara wrote:

absolutely wrote:

how would you feel if someone was trolling using your handle?

He's too smart to let that happen. Man, I'm getting confused with all of your usernames: Asceticist, skuj, not skuj, absolutely, Dr. E, etc. Please pick one and stick with it. Is that asking too much?

Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

besides, the troll has registered "skuj". he/she is still trolling with it, i see. i'm sorry everyone, but i'm very angry, and it is very important that i point this out.

i'm unable to register ANY name. wejo has not explained why.

back to the topic: did aouita adopt the coe model? i think he did. discuss.

absolutely wrote:

mostly wrong tamara. try again.

So you deny posting under most of these names: Asceticist, skuj, "not skuj" (abbreviated), absolutely, Dr. E? In that case, I apologize. Skuj posted earlier that he was Asceticist and I thought they were now you. My bad.

BTW, I have not seen any skuj posts lately, yet you say he/she is still posting? Where?

Sorry (again) for the interruption...

tuna and Kim,

I was just closing out the answer to Nobby's question about Peter's records, not everyone else's. Did someone list Bill Baillie's WRs yet?

Tamara,

I know the original Skuj, he lives on the same island I do and belongs to the same running club as I. I know his real name, it is very close to 'Skuj'. Skuj has not posted up as Dr. E., that is me, from another website that Skuj and I infiltrate and it is short for Dr. Exaggerator. This is why I have now registered as Dr. Exag., I am the real Dr. E and now Dr. Exag here.

I have had a phone call with Nobby and several emails and a few emails with Kim Stevenson. - The current (last 3 days) Dr. Skuj and Dr. E are new imposters.

Skuj is Absolutely (now) 'Absolutely'. Although I cannot vouch for any other psuedonyms at this point.

Time to establish a way to register D.S! (original Skuj).

Anyway, there is a definite correlation between Lydiard style training and East African lifestyle. The Coe Martin book, also has the line early on stating that it is not uncommon for middle distance runners to train aerobically using high mileage.

I think there is too much effort to seperate the coaches and say, "my gawd is better than your gawd". Where really the aerobic development is done with all highly successful athletes.

Big differences are:

1.)1 coach is more specific and scientific.

2.)1 coach is more creative and experimental (but I hear also stubborn).

Similarity (from two books I have read):

They both have at least one unbeleivable athlete to ride the wave of success.

asceticist, skuj, absolutely.

deletions have been ongoing for the troll who now calls himself "skuj". i'm thankful for that. i will change my name again if the troll uses "absolutely".

Question: Twice a month or so I've been running a shortly weekly workout where I run 8x400 meters with a 200 meter up-tempo jog. I run the 400s at a little faster than 5K pace (75) and the 400s in around 45 -48 seconds. I would like to do this workout year round because it seems like it keeps me sharp, doesn't wear me out and even works on threshold a bit as well. But at the same time toward the end of the workout it certainly becomes anaeorobic. Anyhow, under the Lydiard school of thought, I should take a lot more rest if I'm going to do this workout year round but isn't there a place for a interval session like this that works on speed and form and doesn't create a whole lot of lactic acid? Or is this type of workout simply not sustainable year round?

absolutely wrote:

asceticist, skuj, absolutely.

deletions have been ongoing for the troll who now calls himself "skuj". i'm thankful for that. i will change my name again if the troll uses "absolutely".

Why don't you just register a name and stick with it? It's really not that difficult. And what 'deletions' are you talking about? The 'skuj' posts you refer to are still on this thread. Nothing's been deleted. Why do you insist on playing this game?

...and I just noticed that the last posts by 'Dr. Exag' and 'absolutely' were posted 2 minutes apart. The jig is up. Go back to DyeStat and let us have an intelligent discussion without your whining.

Sorry, folks. I'm out.

Unit 5 wrote:

Question: Twice a month or so I've been running a shortly weekly workout where I run 8x400 meters with a 200 meter up-tempo jog. I run the 400s at a little faster than 5K pace (75) and the 400s in around 45 -48 seconds. I would like to do this workout year round because it seems like it keeps me sharp, doesn't wear me out and even works on threshold a bit as well. But at the same time toward the end of the workout it certainly becomes anaeorobic. Anyhow, under the Lydiard school of thought, I should take a lot more rest if I'm going to do this workout year round but isn't there a place for a interval session like this that works on speed and form and doesn't create a whole lot of lactic acid? Or is this type of workout simply not sustainable year round?

You're running 2 miles (8x300) at 5K pace with a break every lap? And you're thinking about taking more rest?! That's certainly sustainable year round, but is it valuable? What event are your training for?

That 200 jog is done at 45 seconds so the whole workout ends up being 3 miles in 16:00, which for me is 5 seconds faster than half-marathon pace.

I'm training for a marathon but I'm looking to run some decent 10Ks in the next few weeks.

"why did lydiard ignore that kind of work for the most part?"

If a car runs, why fix it? If Lydiard was producing the world record holders and Olympic champions, why change the system? If you have a good reason to believe including those reps are better, by all mean. Let us know when you produce the Olympic champion.

HRE:

I remember a photo of Bill Baillie sticking his fact between Snell and John Davies, showing them the time. I thought it was for 1000m.

Okay, here's the statistics from "Journal of Running Science": This was written by professor Noguchi (you know what, I could not read his first name! I've been in MN too long...). He listed all the runners Lydiard "directly" coached (including Baillie's WRs) and some we know had definite influence from Lydiard (besides Dave Power, only 3 Finns were listed ourside NZ). According to professor Noguchi (no relation to Mizuki Noguchi), "Lydiard-influenced runners" held WRs in any event from July 7th, 1961, till August 3rd, 1985; a period of 24 years and 27 days (didn't Halberg hold WR before Rome?). Even for the Olympic events, between March 2nd, 1962, and July 13th, 1973; between July 5th, 1977, and April 7th, 1978; and between December 6th, 1981, and October 20th, 1984; total of 14 years and 11 months.

He concluded that "...most of Japanese coaches and runners were directly and indirectly influenced by Lydiard through his visit to Japan (Susumu Takahashi) and visit to NZ (Kiyoshi Nakamura) in 1963. So you could point out that most of Japanese runners achievement in the past 40 years are done by Lydiard 'grandchildren' and 'great-grandchildren' athletes." Incidentaly, if you include that, you need to include Toshihiko Seko's world 25k and 30k track records which I believe still stand.

HRE, I couldn't help it; I've got to show off--I received a "personal" message from Ron Clarke and he said that Lydiard's influence made him from "a club-level runner to an international-level runner."

Also, I think I mentioned this somewhere else; when Seb Coe was having glandular problem before 1984 Olympics, Lydiard was asked to consult his condition personally by Peter Coe. I know it because I was there in Lydiard's office when he received the phone call. He basically told him that the problem is too much anaerobic training.

oferf***sake the trolls are winning.read my lips: absolutely is my new name, until a troll spoils it. skuj has been registered by a troll. the troll recently had lots of stupid things to say on other threads. those things are now gone, but he isn't. i cannot register as ANYTHING, and believe me i've tried. dr e/exag is a friend of mine. now, lets talk coemartinlydiardrunningetcetcetc.

wondering wrote:

...and I just noticed that the last posts by 'Dr. Exag' and 'absolutely' were posted 2 minutes apart. The jig is up. Go back to DyeStat and let us have an intelligent discussion without your whining.

Sorry, folks. I'm out.

Unlike many Absolutely and I are in the same time zone.

Link your email, we will email you and you will get it.

Her illness, devastating to see, reminds the father and son of the year approaching the Los Angeles Games when Seb contracted a mysterious disease that sapped his energy and threatened his dream. They feared it might be a reaction of an immune system suppressed by pushing the body so remorselessly that at times he could barely grip the steering wheel on his car at the end of training. Doctors concluded his illness was toxoplasmosis, a disease that affects the glands and was probably transmitted by a cat while he trained in Italy. “From July 1983 to the February before the Games,” Coe recalls, “I just didn’t run. My dad did a lot of pretty special coaching things, but the greatest test of his credibility was to get me back not simply to defend the Olympic title, but in shape to run seven races in nine days. “He never flinched. His background wasn’t in running, but competitive cycling. He told me, ‘This is your Tour de France. Don’t expect to be in shape on the first day or to be bombing down the Champs Elysees on the last day with the yellow jersey. It won’t work like that’.” Coe recounts the story unaware of the irony that plotting to bring home the prize to the Champs Elysees is precisely what his days and nights now are dedicated to trying to prevent. He smiles, momentarily, when I point this out. ........................................................nobby, you know i love ya man, but what lydiard said about coe's illness, and what caused it, may very likely be two different things. it is important to state this.it is also important to say.....howdya like the new thread, man? :) when it gets to 50 pages, will the trolls start to complain? :)

Nobby wrote:

Also, I think I mentioned this somewhere else; when Seb Coe was having glandular problem before 1984 Olympics, Lydiard was asked to consult his condition personally by Peter Coe. I know it because I was there in Lydiard's office when he received the phone call. He basically told him that the problem is too much anaerobic training.

"Also, I think I mentioned this somewhere else; when Seb Coe was having glandular problem before 1984 Olympics, Lydiard was asked to consult his condition personally by Peter Coe. I know it because I was there in Lydiard's office when he received the phone call. He basically told him that the problem is too much anaerobic training."

seb was wr holder and olympic champion when lydiard said this. then he won olympics again. how can lydiard therefore conclude that he did TOO MUCH anaerobic training? :)

i love ya, man.

absolutely wrote:

the troll recently had lots of stupid things to say on other threads. those things are now gone, but he isn't. i cannot register as ANYTHING, and believe me i've tried.

I call bullshit.

Doubting Thomas may very well remains dounting Thomas. Thank God Peter and Seb Coe may have had more open-minded view, even though Seb was already WR holder and Olympic champion, that they may have been willing to listen to the old fart like Lydiard.