We changed the title to make it more accuarte. Initially the title of the thread was, "HS Coach has his own athlete DQ'd". Please note the athlete ran the mile under protest and finished high enough to qualify to states if him being scratched is overturned.
Back in the day you were not allowed to run all three distance events.
The district meet was a two-day affair to qualify for States and the 2 Mile was on the first day along with some preliminaries.
There was a school in our district that had a great distance runner and she had to quadruple using the two mile one mile 440 and mile relay The girl won both the mile and the two mile and placed in the 440 and mile relay scoring points for her team
Think of it this way. Your college coach says, "I need you to run 10k and 5k at conference." You say, "No I ony want to run 5k." Coach reiterates, "We have a shot for top 2 finish. I need you to double."
You then jog the 10k. Coach pulls you from the meet. Would everyone immediately side with the athlete?
As a coach, your #1 priority at the start of a season is to establish what the goals are for your team and for your athletes. These goals should be clear from week one. This matters a lot for this situation. Think about it in two different scenarios:
Scenario #1: Week one of the season, head coach sets a goal for the team to perform well at the District meet. This is clear to the distance coach and the athlete, and they knew it would mean they would have to sacrifice personal performance goals for the benefit of the team. However, the athlete and distance coach have their own goals to perform at states and ignore the overall team's goals repeatedly throughout the season. When the head coach informs the athlete he needs him to triple at Districts, the athlete and distance coach go behind the back of the head coach, he jogs the 800 so he can remain fresh for the 1600. Head coach scratches athlete to punish him for his selfishness when other members of the team made sacrifices for the team to place well.
Scenario #2: Throughout the season the head coach set no goals for the team. There was no reason for the athlete or distance to believe they would need to make significant sacrifices for the team as they pursue the athlete's personal goals. Head coach enters athlete in all three events at Districts and informs him without notice he needs to triple to score for the team. Athlete and distance coach believe this is unfair. Without planning ahead of time, athlete finishes 10th in 800, although he would have tried to score if it were easily possible. Athlete is unaware he's scratched from the 1600, shows up and is confused by interaction with head coach.
See? If the head coach has a clear and established set of goals that this athlete should have been aware of, this athlete's actions seem a little bit more unsportsmanlike. But, if there wasn't really any indication what would be expected of the athlete, the head coach seems like the jerk here.
Coaches... make sure your athletes know what goals have been set for them. Don't leave them in the dark.
Why is one kid in the 2-mile, 800, and mile? I know it happens, but can you really expect a full on effort for all three events on the same day? Maybe his PBs were run when he was only running one event? I am sure there was no discussion between the coach and the runner whether he WANTED to do all three events
My junior year of high school I was entered in the 1600 at my state qualifier meet. I was definitely a long shot to make it, but I was excited about the opportunity and felt I had it in me to try.
The meet was on a saturday evening. My dad told me I could only go to the meet if I worked the day (my family owns a small business which involves reasonable amounts of physical labor). I told my dad I wouldn't work, because I wanted to be well-rested for the meet. He told me I couldn't go.
When time came for me to catch the bus, I busted out from home when no one was looking and rode my bike to school. I was just about to get on the bus when my dad pulls in. He talked to my coach for a moment and then told me to get in the car. Needless to say I didn't end up running my race.
It's still a tender memory for me, but I've also grown up since then. Life isn't always fair, and you've gotta work with the cards your dealt. Looking back, I shoulda just worked the day and tried my best in the evening. Sometimes a little grit goes a long way. Pettiness sure doesn't.
Why is one kid in the 2-mile, 800, and mile? I know it happens, but can you really expect a full on effort for all three events on the same day? Maybe his PBs were run when he was only running one event? I am sure there was no discussion between the coach and the runner whether he WANTED to do all three events
every week thousands of distance runners across the nation do the same triple at dual meets.
He had by far the strongest times in the meet and should have been able to win them all. Even if he's tired and doesn't win all of them, he'd still score well in all 3 events.
And he didn't have to win the 1600 to qualify, he would just need to be in the top 8 which only took like 4:55.
My junior year of high school I was entered in the 1600 at my state qualifier meet. I was definitely a long shot to make it, but I was excited about the opportunity and felt I had it in me to try.
The meet was on a saturday evening. My dad told me I could only go to the meet if I worked the day (my family owns a small business which involves reasonable amounts of physical labor). I told my dad I wouldn't work, because I wanted to be well-rested for the meet. He told me I couldn't go.
When time came for me to catch the bus, I busted out from home when no one was looking and rode my bike to school. I was just about to get on the bus when my dad pulls in. He talked to my coach for a moment and then told me to get in the car. Needless to say I didn't end up running my race.
It's still a tender memory for me, but I've also grown up since then. Life isn't always fair, and you've gotta work with the cards your dealt. Looking back, I shoulda just worked the day and tried my best in the evening. Sometimes a little grit goes a long way. Pettiness sure doesn't.
That's too bad for you. Your dad sounds like a real tool. Hopefully you could find some pure hate to race on later.
The my way or the highway whether it's coach or parent doesn't get anyone very far in the modern era.
Why is one kid in the 2-mile, 800, and mile? I know it happens, but can you really expect a full on effort for all three events on the same day? Maybe his PBs were run when he was only running one event? I am sure there was no discussion between the coach and the runner whether he WANTED to do all three events
every week thousands of distance runners across the nation do the same triple at dual meets.
He had by far the strongest times in the meet and should have been able to win them all. Even if he's tired and doesn't win all of them, he'd still score well in all 3 events.
And he didn't have to win the 1600 to qualify, he would just need to be in the top 8 which only took like 4:55.
Clearly you've never raced at a high level because you don't know what kind of toll that takes on the body. Especially in 90F temps. I hope you never coach any distance kids.
If this is a qualifying meet I would only race my athlete in whatever they were trying to get to state in.
The preparation for the triple is done all season long in workouts and earlier races. You also have a dope sheet to see how they measure up against competition.
Getting points is only for the win. We don't triple for a second or third place as a team. It's just wasted effort. We also let the athletes know to go as easy as possible to accomplish the goal.
Why is one kid in the 2-mile, 800, and mile? I know it happens, but can you really expect a full on effort for all three events on the same day? Maybe his PBs were run when he was only running one event? I am sure there was no discussion between the coach and the runner whether he WANTED to do all three events
every week thousands of distance runners across the nation do the same triple at dual meets.
He had by far the strongest times in the meet and should have been able to win them all. Even if he's tired and doesn't win all of them, he'd still score well in all 3 events.
And he didn't have to win the 1600 to qualify, he would just need to be in the top 8 which only took like 4:55.
Look closely at his past results, and the Florida rules for progressing from district to regional and then to states. I also think people need to keep in mind that districts, regionals, and states are usually run in 90+ degrees. imagine running three races in 90 degrees. *All his PRs were ran as a first event, and he never tripled these distances before. *Top 4 athletes move on from districts *Top 2 athletes move on from regionals (if he had qualified in all three, he would have competed in the three events at regionals, which has much faster competition and only 2 move on to states)
Since the two coaches were not in agreement on how to handle the situation, what they should have done is let him run the 1600m (not withdraw him) and then deal with it after the fact.
If it was agreed upon by the two coaches after the meet, they have the option of simply not entering him in the event in the state meet.
The coach has been dismissed, according to a Florida Today article:
"The coach is no longer coaching Viera track," Russell Bruhn, Brevard Public Schools chief strategic communications officer, said. "The school has appealed with the FHSAA, and, obviously, that's their decision."
every week thousands of distance runners across the nation do the same triple at dual meets.
He had by far the strongest times in the meet and should have been able to win them all. Even if he's tired and doesn't win all of them, he'd still score well in all 3 events.
And he didn't have to win the 1600 to qualify, he would just need to be in the top 8 which only took like 4:55.
Look closely at his past results, and the Florida rules for progressing from district to regional and then to states. I also think people need to keep in mind that districts, regionals, and states are usually run in 90+ degrees. imagine running three races in 90 degrees. *All his PRs were ran as a first event, and he never tripled these distances before. *Top 4 athletes move on from districts *Top 2 athletes move on from regionals (if he had qualified in all three, he would have competed in the three events at regionals, which has much faster competition and only 2 move on to states)
Yeah, there are lots of people commenting here who clearly never had to race in Florida. You can’t race and recover from three distance races in that heat in that amount of time. Sure, you can run three when it’s a dual meet that doesn’t matter, but performing at a high level is impossible. Even after he supposedly took it easy in the 800 look how much slower his 1600 was than his PR. He was already gassed from the 3200.
Look closely at his past results, and the Florida rules for progressing from district to regional and then to states. I also think people need to keep in mind that districts, regionals, and states are usually run in 90+ degrees. imagine running three races in 90 degrees. *All his PRs were ran as a first event, and he never tripled these distances before. *Top 4 athletes move on from districts *Top 2 athletes move on from regionals (if he had qualified in all three, he would have competed in the three events at regionals, which has much faster competition and only 2 move on to states)
Yeah, there are lots of people commenting here who clearly never had to race in Florida. You can’t race and recover from three distance races in that heat in that amount of time. Sure, you can run three when it’s a dual meet that doesn’t matter, but performing at a high level is impossible. Even after he supposedly took it easy in the 800 look how much slower his 1600 was than his PR. He was already gassed from the 3200.
the 1600 was slow because it was strategic and nobody wanted to lead.
This kid is barely a 4:20 miler. That’s his best event. Hardly cracking 2:00 in the 800, at 17 or 18 years old?
Let’s be honest: he is going to do nothing noteworthy in running, period. Hopefully for him college track/xc will be about enjoyment, personal achievement, and…wait for it…TEAM WORK. A kid like this needs to learn to be a role-player.
There are more important things than getting the 1600 heat time you want at a district meet. And who decides what’s best for the TEAM? The coach, that’s who.
As a coach I am not impressed with this prima donna crap. For a likely scorer to run an 800 final at slower than mile pace, in a close meet, is utter garage.
Seems like kid who has never learned the lessons most of us do in middle school. Better late than never. For his sake I hope he doesn’t pull that trash in college.
Look closely at his past results, and the Florida rules for progressing from district to regional and then to states. I also think people need to keep in mind that districts, regionals, and states are usually run in 90+ degrees. imagine running three races in 90 degrees. *All his PRs were ran as a first event, and he never tripled these distances before. *Top 4 athletes move on from districts *Top 2 athletes move on from regionals (if he had qualified in all three, he would have competed in the three events at regionals, which has much faster competition and only 2 move on to states)
Yeah, there are lots of people commenting here who clearly never had to race in Florida. You can’t race and recover from three distance races in that heat in that amount of time. Sure, you can run three when it’s a dual meet that doesn’t matter, but performing at a high level is impossible. Even after he supposedly took it easy in the 800 look how much slower his 1600 was than his PR. He was already gassed from the 3200.
Welcome to softy land. Our new generation. No wonder the Kenyans are moping us. lol
This kid is barely a 4:20 miler. That’s his best event. Hardly cracking 2:00 in the 800, at 17 or 18 years old?
Let’s be honest: he is going to do nothing noteworthy in running, period. Hopefully for him college track/xc will be about enjoyment, personal achievement, and…wait for it…TEAM WORK. A kid like this needs to learn to be a role-player.
There are more important things than getting the 1600 heat time you want at a district meet. And who decides what’s best for the TEAM? The coach, that’s who.
As a coach I am not impressed with this prima donna crap. For a likely scorer to run an 800 final at slower than mile pace, in a close meet, is utter garage.
Seems like kid who has never learned the lessons most of us do in middle school. Better late than never. For his sake I hope he doesn’t pull that trash in college.
It wasn't a close meet. They were down something like 70 points. The head coach's sprinters had only scored 4 points while the distance runners had scored over 40.
The coach needs to decide what is best for their ATHLETES. The team score is just a byproduct of having enough individuals at your school to outpoint the individuals from other schools.
“My way of the highway” is called leadership. These coaches take 100% responsibility for success and failure. This is what winners do.
That's not leadership.
Lots of comments about the heat, effort in events, etc. But for me it comes down to one simple thing. The coach was acting out of anger and spite, and the goal of his actions were to punish the athlete. It was a petty act aimed to hurt the athlete by preventing him from qualifying for regional and beyond.
In real sports you give 100% on every play, usually more than just three in a day. Someone up-thread mentioned the White Sox manager in the past week benching a guy that didn't run hard to first base. This is the same thing. Give your all every time.
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