I agree. Used to live there. Unfortunately I resent the school. They have something called the Colorado Pledge that, while it guarantees anything from zero cost to no more than the flagship school for certain tiers of income, above the highest level, which isn’t very high, your kid gets nothing. I can see doing that with out of state kids, but for taxpaying Coloradoans? Also a notoriously liberal school, following the trend of the state.
I talked to both their admissions and financial aid offices. They clearly don’t want to keep their best and brightest CO kids in CO, because my oldest wouldn’t even look at it after that. And she really liked the block system. Some kids don’t. Also, I don’t think it’s as good as it’s rated.
Anyhow, my youngest wouldn’t get in there.
Colorado College is a national small liberal arts college competing with Williams, Amherst to Oberlin, Hamilton etc.
1 - financial aid from 'zero cost' to 'your kid gets nothing' is the standard need based policy at all these schools, the Ivies too. No athletic aid, very little merit aid.
2 - it's a private college, so there is no state funding and no obligation to help Colorado taxpayers.
3 - you are actually at a disadvantage applying from Colorado, as the school is trying to build their national/international footprint. They want to claim students from x of 50 states and y countries. If you apply from an exotic country, or an odd state like Rhode Island or Wyoming you have a better chance. So you are absolutely right they don't want the best and brightest in Colorado, rather they want to bring the best and brightest to CO. (similarly Mass is worst state to apply from, to Harvard, MIT, Williams n Amherst)
4 - athletics - while there is no aid, being supported by a coach will allow a drop in admission standards, so the athlete has a better chance/guarantee of acceptance than the general pool. (this was the core of the varsity blues admission scandal).
No, I get it. They are trying to get a national and international footprint while trying to elevate their status as a top-tier school. But they are no Williams or Amherst. C’mon man.
Also, yes, they are privately funded. I get it. With the exception of the Colorado Opportunity Fund, which is a tax reimbursement to help mitigate higher education costs, their goal is not to be a state, taxpayer-funded school. My point is they lost out on our first daughter, back when we lived there. A 4.4 GPA (straight As), 1550 SAT (first time, no super score) kid with impeccable extracurriculars because of their “Colorado Pledge,” which shuts out families who make even $250,001 annually. Stupid policy. They are not Ivy. Why wouldn’t you try to attract that top 1% Colorado kid?
Your daughter has decent times/academics, however, I don't think the academics w/test scores will help get her much academic $, so I'd encourage her to look at non-D1 programs. I'd also have her retake the SAT/ACT to see if the score can be bettered.
Went through the process with our daughter who was a sub-5/sub 10:30 16/32 and 1400++ SAT now running in a major D1 program, but found that the competition for the academic $ side is high--runners are a smart bunch!
Many of the schools have gotten a bit lazy with tweeting commitments. I find some from the athletes that are not posted. But even if you find a school that has tweeted 4 commitments and four current runners are listed as seniors, there is no way to know hiw many are finished or transferring.
Agree CC is not Amherst, but that's what they aspire to. They are no slouch either though currently ranked #27 by us news, just below Colby and Bates and just above McAlaster and Harvey Mudd engineering.
CC has also been a Questbridge school for years. That's an organisation that pairs up the strongest low income, minority and first gen kids with the need based fin aid at top schools.
I bet they did miss out on a good one. Best of luck to d2.
Your daughter has decent times/academics, however, I don't think the academics w/test scores will help get her much academic $, so I'd encourage her to look at non-D1 programs. I'd also have her retake the SAT/ACT to see if the score can be bettered.
Went through the process with our daughter who was a sub-5/sub 10:30 16/32 and 1400++ SAT now running in a major D1 program, but found that the competition for the academic $ side is high--runners are a smart bunch!
Yes, they typically are very smart, and driven.
I think some of the posters on here maybe misunderstand. Nobody is looking for a full ride or half ride. I know some elite girls get that, but that’s not my game. I simply want my daughter to get the equivalent of in state tuition. Surely some coaches have the ability to get a kid admitted w tuition reciprocity, no? Or a private or D2 school gives enough of a tuition haircut to get close. In some cases, maybe the arrangement is a waiver of OOS tuition for a year while the kid summers there and gets residency.
The challenge for us is she can’t get into the in-state flagship school, and the state school is too competitive. Surely there are some coaches who can do something for a 5:00, 10:30, 17:00 kid who is not only going to contribute in xc but also in track? But maybe I’m wrong.
Agree CC is not Amherst, but that's what they aspire to. They are no slouch either though currently ranked #27 by us news, just below Colby and Bates and just above McAlaster and Harvey Mudd engineering.
CC has also been a Questbridge school for years. That's an organisation that pairs up the strongest low income, minority and first gen kids with the need based fin aid at top schools.
I bet they did miss out on a good one. Best of luck to d2.
Thank you. Yes they did. I understand their process. I wish they considered kids from families who didn’t make a lot more than the top end of the pledge range. Denver was a high cost city for us. It’s not like we moved there in 1996 and got a cheap house that ballooned in value. Maybe they should evaluate on a case by case basis rather than having a hard line in the sand. But, again, that’s not their mission. Bygones. She is happy in the south-southeast, which is funny.
Lee (TN) is a great DII program, She'd likely get scholarship there with her times. The rigor of DI really isn't for everyone, so it'd be worth checking out some DIIs. But if you're set on DI, have you tried Wake Forest?
You guys just don't seem to understand that schools are not responding. Wake Forest ia on another level than the schools who are not responding. Wake had 10 women 4:36 or faster last year.
Perhaps stating the in-state tuition amount might help people here understand the end goal. State tuition varies from state to state. Not sure what state you reside, but there are also programs by region such as Midwest Student Exchange Program that offer residents of a particular region discounted tuition (typically 150% of the in-state rate). This might offset a lower scholarship amount and most regions of the US have their own similar program.
It's interesting that when one of you finally got to speak to the coach directly she said she hadn't received or wasn't aware of the questionnaire or email from the girl in question.
It sounds like a lot of it is in the approach. If people send emails and then give up if they don't hear back it isn't going to work. I'm not saying with every university especially if people are emailing like 50+ but I mean if someone has their heart set on somewhere. I'd go for a multi-pronged approach and be persistent. Get advice from people who work at the institution on what the best approach is. Have the emails checked by several people. I wouldn't contact the place yourself though (on behalf of the daughter or son). I remember when we had a well-intentioned dad contacting our department (back when I worked at a university) about his son attaining Grade 5 clarinet or something similar and wanting to send the certificate over for us to print off to add to his application. It was really off-putting. Not only was the grade only vaguely relevant to the application but it was the fact that the father was doing all of this and the phone calls with his son sitting back. It really worked against him. On the other side we had 17 year old girls from China acting with real business acumen and I know of one who through sheer persistence got the result she wanted even though I'm not sure if I agreed with it.
I also would say to be open minded. Some people get their hearts set on one place and become fixated on it when it wouldn't be the right fit anyway and they wouldn't be happy there. But with these approaches I'd really seek relevant, recent professional advice from someone in the know and then go from there. Good luck.
I agree with the first point but I think the coaches are a bit lazy. It sure seems like coaches are ignoring almost all forms of contact. There are many posters in the list thread who have expressed the same experience. Some have said that they contacted several dozen coaches with many being below the level that they are currently running. So it isn't that kids are limiting their scope. Some have asked for the names of schools where they would be able to walk-on but people always throw out names of their favorite schools rather than ones where they know the coach is somebody who will respond.
The other question I would have is what is in the email she is sending out? Is it providing the information the coach needs in a succinct manner (it should be personalized, include track times and academic information and why she wants to go there in the least amount of words possible). It also seems like it may include money questions - if it does that might be why coaches move on to the next one. While I'm not an expert and most of my knowledge comes from having a child go through the process and from talking to a dozen or so parents who also had kids looking to run at college - getting an applicant to their in state tuition was not anything approached. I don't think coaches have that as an option - the difference between full tuition still comes out of their scholarship money.
My girls have likely contacted a combined 50 schools at this point. I ask them frequently and am amazed when they rattle off a list of schools that they received no response from. It doesn't matter if the team finished 1st or 10th or 30th at regionals.
I have some girls who are very smart with 34 ACT scores. They are very good at writing and are very nice. They list the basics and tell the coach that they are very interested in their program and would love to talk to the coach about the possibility of becoming a member of the team.
Coaches fell asleep after Covid shutdown. It is unfortunate because many Karissa Schweizer types are going to give up after high school if they can't get a roster spot somewhere.
Food for thought, but these coaches are contacted by hundreds++ of kids each year, often repeatedly. Do I think they should have some sort of response--yes, but most often that's not the reality. Sort of like the job market where you apply for a job but might not ever hear from the potential employer even though a rejection letter gives you desired closure.
Our daughter was given a tip from a speedy upperclassman who told her to create a catchy one-page mailer with a racing photo, PRs and video links and that was mailed to coaches that did not reach to her but where she had an interest in the school. She had a great response from this at many top level D1 schools. She knows another athlete that created a postcard that was mailed to coaches and then followed up on which also captured coaches attention.
I don't agree that coaches fell asleep after Covid, and instead think Covid changed the parameters of recruiting--the extra covid year for those already at schools has bit of an impact, but doesn't explain everything. The other part our daughter experienced was schools wanting to sign her very early into the process and acknowledging that the timeline of recruiting was shortened and much quicker. Every single school she spoke with asked how soon she was wanting to make her decision and those same schools started to apply decision pressure in August of her senior year, many asking for a decision by the end of September.
True, but it is a good starting point. Let's say you have your heart set on NC State and you see they have 5 new freshman recruits coming next year, you can then look at those recruits' times (see where you stand), plus know that there are 5 already signed to assess the realistic chances that you still have a shot.
Betting your daughter didn't sign in last 2 years. The landscape changed. I have been coaching for 10 years and always had success with girls contacting coaches on teams where they would make an immediate impact. That changed after Covid. As far as trying early, I have them start junior year. We now have juniors who run 5:00 in April and start reaching out to coaches on teams that have only 3 or 4 women who have broken 5 but they receive responses from 5% of the coaches. Yes they have fallen asleep. Coaches had a year during Covid where they got paid not to do anything. It appears that most liked it and came to realize that not many distance coaches get let go as long as they don't make waves.
I will talk about what I know. Tulsa is like the Colorado College of Oklahoma, but with many more serious majors and a huge endowment. And without the pesky want of being essentially a parking parking lot for monied east coasters that do not want to see their kids until they graduate like CC is. More importantly, Tulsa is actively working to build their women's team up to the same standard as their Men's team. They are a bit distance biased as they are working more to fill out their power and speed events on the track side.
When you look at programs, look for the endowment dollars per capita as this will tell you how much they have for non Athletic in Kind funds, like academic aid, institutional based scholarship(s) and the like. As, the secret that has not been posted or well communicated is that schools will stretch out their Athletic in Kind funds, that are limited by NCAA with institutional dollars using categories like academic aid, the, "XYZ," scholarship fund, the "fast runners Aid Program," "Funds for The Super Smart," etc. I have seen many differant schools stitch 10+ smaller pieces of aid together to stretch the Athletic only dollars in order to deliver 90-100% of total costs aid to athletes, yes, in the running program. This is what Tulsa does. Also, another thing to keep in mind is the Tulsa has a job guarantee, and if a recently graduated student does not have a job in their field after a certain, small amount of time, Tulsa will educate that student to the Masters level for FREE!
Look at the stats from last Springs track, this Falls XC and the current Winter Indoor season, you are seeing a lot of Nat's qualifiers in all these groups in both genders. It is clear they want to add at least 2 national level Women and at least 1 on the Men's side.
Yes, my child attended Tulsa and I have good insight on how it works there. If you have not talked to Gulley, keep trying, I know he wants to his Teams on the National stage more, and has the coaching talent to do it.