So how much cheaper is the model S that I can buy today versus 10 years ago? How much farther does it go? It started at 260 miles and like 65k. So now does it sell for 50k and go 500miles? What type of drastic increases have when seen over a decade? And that is a decade. Make it Like 3 years like we were talking about for rapid improvement and there is almost now improvement.
As I said there have been small steady changes. Nothing that is going to lead you to get a new car every 3 years.
Yeah, how much is a Tesla Model S now versus 10 years ago? You said Tesla how dramatically lowered costs. But a Model S cost $59,000 in 2012. The base price currently for a Model S is $104,000. So that is what you call lowering costs?
The Model 3 and Model Y didn't exist 10 years ago.
Today you can get a Model 3 or Model Y with better capability at roughly half the price of a Model S from 10 years ago.
Tesla has dramatically lowered costs with increased range, performance, safety, etc.
Yeah, how much is a Tesla Model S now versus 10 years ago? You said Tesla how dramatically lowered costs. But a Model S cost $59,000 in 2012. The base price currently for a Model S is $104,000. So that is what you call lowering costs?
The Model 3 and Model Y didn't exist 10 years ago.
Today you can get a Model 3 or Model Y with better capability at roughly half the price of a Model S from 10 years ago.
Tesla has dramatically lowered costs with increased range, performance, safety, etc.
The Model S retailed for 59,000 in 2012. You said Tesla has 'dramatically lowered costs" over the last 10 years. So why does a new Model S cost $45,000 more than it did 10 years ago? I thought the dramatically lowered prices. Again, is Tesla just pocketing this incredible costs savings and even raising the price substantially?
I just drive up to my car dealership around the corner on Saturday night, plug in to their free level 2 charger and pick the car up the next morning fully charged for the week for free. I'm saving about $300/mo on fuel vs if I had a gasoline vehicle.
Your EV likely cost about $60,000 versus a $30,000 ICE. That $30,000 in savings you can invest and it will be worth $60,000 in 6 years at historical returns and $120,000 in 12 years at historical returns. I think I will go with the ICE.
Actually my new 2022 Bolt EUV Premier cost only $35,200 with the $6800 rebate I received. I get about 260 miles/wk on one fill with 50 miles left to spare (yes, that's more than the manufacturer's mileage estimate).
The Model 3 and Model Y didn't exist 10 years ago.
Today you can get a Model 3 or Model Y with better capability at roughly half the price of a Model S from 10 years ago.
Tesla has dramatically lowered costs with increased range, performance, safety, etc.
The Model S retailed for 59,000 in 2012. You said Tesla has 'dramatically lowered costs" over the last 10 years. So why does a new Model S cost $45,000 more than it did 10 years ago? I thought the dramatically lowered prices. Again, is Tesla just pocketing this incredible costs savings and even raising the price substantially?
The base Model S in 2012 only had a range of 160 miles. Today, the cheapest, lowest range Tesla you can buy gets 272 at a price that's $10,000 lower (even before adjusting for inflation).
The Model S costs more today than in 2012 because of inflation and dramatically better capability.
Your EV likely cost about $60,000 versus a $30,000 ICE. That $30,000 in savings you can invest and it will be worth $60,000 in 6 years at historical returns and $120,000 in 12 years at historical returns. I think I will go with the ICE.
Actually my new 2022 Bolt EUV Premier cost only $35,200 with the $6800 rebate I received. I get about 260 miles/wk on one fill with 50 miles left to spare (yes, that's more than the manufacturer's mileage estimate).
The Model S retailed for 59,000 in 2012. You said Tesla has 'dramatically lowered costs" over the last 10 years. So why does a new Model S cost $45,000 more than it did 10 years ago? I thought the dramatically lowered prices. Again, is Tesla just pocketing this incredible costs savings and even raising the price substantially?
The base Model S in 2012 only had a range of 160 miles. Today, the cheapest, lowest range Tesla you can buy gets 272 at a price that's $10,000 lower (even before adjusting for inflation).
The Model S costs more today than in 2012 because of inflation and dramatically better capability.
Let's stay laser-focused on the Model S. You said Tesla has dramatically cuts costs over the last decade. If that was true then the current Model S would be dramatically cheaper than 10 years ago EVEN WITH INFLATION. Instead its base price has increased $45,000. If costs have been dramatically reduced why is the 2022 Model S so much more expensive than the 2012. Nothing about the range. Improvement in range should be an automatic.
In 1996 I paid $2,500 for a computer. Last year I paid $400 for a far superior computer. I think we have had inflation over the last 25 years. Why is my current computer so much less expensive. If it followed the Tesla business model that current computer might cost $80,000 today.
The base Model S in 2012 only had a range of 160 miles. Today, the cheapest, lowest range Tesla you can buy gets 272 at a price that's $10,000 lower (even before adjusting for inflation).
The Model S costs more today than in 2012 because of inflation and dramatically better capability.
Let's stay laser-focused on the Model S. You said Tesla has dramatically cuts costs over the last decade. If that was true then the current Model S would be dramatically cheaper than 10 years ago EVEN WITH INFLATION. Instead its base price has increased $45,000. If costs have been dramatically reduced why is the 2022 Model S so much more expensive than the 2012. Nothing about the range. Improvement in range should be an automatic.
In 1996 I paid $2,500 for a computer. Last year I paid $400 for a far superior computer. I think we have had inflation over the last 25 years. Why is my current computer so much less expensive. If it followed the Tesla business model that current computer might cost $80,000 today.
Why would you stay focused on the Model S?
The Model 3 and Model Y are much better cars than the 2012 Model S.
Tesla has dramatically lowered the cost of an EV and given you better range, performance, safety, infotainment, self-driving, longevity, etc.
Let's stay laser-focused on the Model S. You said Tesla has dramatically cuts costs over the last decade. If that was true then the current Model S would be dramatically cheaper than 10 years ago EVEN WITH INFLATION. Instead its base price has increased $45,000. If costs have been dramatically reduced why is the 2022 Model S so much more expensive than the 2012. Nothing about the range. Improvement in range should be an automatic.
In 1996 I paid $2,500 for a computer. Last year I paid $400 for a far superior computer. I think we have had inflation over the last 25 years. Why is my current computer so much less expensive. If it followed the Tesla business model that current computer might cost $80,000 today.
Why would you stay focused on the Model S?
The Model 3 and Model Y are much better cars than the 2012 Model S.
Tesla has dramatically lowered the cost of an EV and given you better range, performance, safety, infotainment, self-driving, longevity, etc.
You can compare a 2012 Model S to a 2022 Model S. Comparing apples to apples. it shows that production costs have not been dramatically cut but instead increased substantially.
The Model 3 and Model Y are much better cars than the 2012 Model S.
Tesla has dramatically lowered the cost of an EV and given you better range, performance, safety, infotainment, self-driving, longevity, etc.
You can compare a 2012 Model S to a 2022 Model S. Comparing apples to apples. it shows that production costs have not been dramatically cut but instead increased substantially.
That's the point. The 2012 Model S and the 2022 Model S is not apples to apples.
The name is the same and it's roughly the same shape. Other than that, it's a completely different car.
Production costs for Tesla have indeed fallen dramatically. In 2012, Tesla lost money on every car it made. Now the automotive profit margins (excluding credits) are around 29%. No other automaker comes close.
China again leads the world in CO2 emissions. In fact China's CO2 emissions are roughly equal to the next 8 countries combined. They are doing a great job!
That's not true at all. You are making stuff up.
China's emissions are roughly double the US. But China has more than four times the population. So US emissions per capita are more than double the emissions from China.
The China apologists need to learn from history and from physics. First, the atmosphere doesn't care about emissions per capita! What matters is total CO2 emissions.
Second, China continues to increase total CO2 emissions faster than any other nation... faster than the next fastest 20 nations combined.
John Kerry praised China in 2016 for joining the Paris, saying, "Today the United States and China demonstrated their continued, shared commitment to climate leadership... I was enormously proud to join President Obama in Hangzhou for this historic moment."
The reality is... I'm not making this up... China pledged, sort of, to stop increasing its CO2 emissions in 2032! Read that again. China did NOT agree to decrease emissions. Instead China pledged, sort of, to stop increasing CO2 emissions by 2032.
From 2016 to 2020, China's CO2 emissions rose from 9.7 to 10.65 GT... a 0.95 GT increase or 10%. Meanwhile, the US CO2 emissions DECLINED from 5.2 to 4.7 GT... a 10% decline.
From 2016 to 2020, CO2 emissions in India (#3 in CO2 emissions) have declined. The UK has declined. The world went down, North America went down, the EU went down. China went up more than the rest of the world combined.
1) Are you asking for studies that take everything into account and show that EVs are a lot greener? There have been plenty. Here is one. I haven't examined it closely, but if you don't like that one just Google for more. Every reputable study shows that lifetime emissions for an EV is much, much lower than gas cars.
2) Yes, every nation needs to do its part. I suspect that your mother taught you if someone else is doing something bad that doesn't mean you can do it too.
Lol. Is this how the woke will endlessly live through their lives? Searching for something on the internet, finding something they like, and then providing what they found as the truth and only the truth? And if you disagree they start foaming at the mouth. Not once do you stop and and think this organization -ICCT is knee deep into this green agenda and what they provide will be extremely biased? I've seen work where the total emissions dont differ much or are skewed towards ICE having lower overall emissions.
Beautiful style of arguing:
1) Act like doing research to support your opinion is 'woke.' I guess that confirms that all the 'un-woke' are dogmatic blowhards.
2) Question the credibility of the source exclusively on political leanings - not competency, experience, etc.
3) Claim to have 'seen work' that disagrees but (shockingly, lol) fail to produce such work
4) Act like you've somehow contributed to the discussion
China's emissions are roughly double the US. But China has more than four times the population. So US emissions per capita are more than double the emissions from China.
The China apologists need to learn from history and from physics. First, the atmosphere doesn't care about emissions per capita! What matters is total CO2 emissions.
Second, China continues to increase total CO2 emissions faster than any other nation... faster than the next fastest 20 nations combined.
John Kerry praised China in 2016 for joining the Paris, saying, "Today the United States and China demonstrated their continued, shared commitment to climate leadership... I was enormously proud to join President Obama in Hangzhou for this historic moment."
The reality is... I'm not making this up... China pledged, sort of, to stop increasing its CO2 emissions in 2032! Read that again. China did NOT agree to decrease emissions. Instead China pledged, sort of, to stop increasing CO2 emissions by 2032.
From 2016 to 2020, China's CO2 emissions rose from 9.7 to 10.65 GT... a 0.95 GT increase or 10%. Meanwhile, the US CO2 emissions DECLINED from 5.2 to 4.7 GT... a 10% decline.
From 2016 to 2020, CO2 emissions in India (#3 in CO2 emissions) have declined. The UK has declined. The world went down, North America went down, the EU went down. China went up more than the rest of the world combined.
Oh, I'm all too aware of the physics of climate change. And I'm not excusing China at all.
Per capita emissions matters because people like to pit nation against nation. If you are going to say China is bad and America is good then it's perfectly appropriate to point out that each American emits over twice as much as each Chinese citizen. It's also appropriate to point out that the US has emitted far more in total than China over the years and our emissions are still in the atmosphere.
Plus, China's emissions are so high in large part because wealthier nations like ours buy so much of the stuff they manufacture.
No advanced nation is free of guilt when it comes to emissions. And pitting one nation against another is totally counterproductive.
Unfortunately California could reach net zero emissions but still face smog and air pollution due to China and India not giving a crap about the environment.
China approved the construction of 8.63 gigawatts (GW) of coal power in the first quarter of this year, nearly half the amount seen in all of 2021, as energy security trumps climate concerns, environment group Greenpeace said...
China does care about the environment and they are selling a lot more EVs in China than in the US, both as a percentage and raw units sold.
Also, China is doing a better job at transitioning to clean energy. This is something I hope the Inflation Reduction Act will change.
The problem is that China manufactures all the stuff we buy so they currently need a lot more coal power.
No nation on earth is really doing enough, but we can't look down on China when our own environmental record is so abysmal.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! China gives zero phooks about the environment.
You can continue to think that if it makes you feel superior.
With the Inflation Reduction Act we are just now starting to take the kinds of steps that China has been taking for several years. But neither nation is doing enough. Not even close.
I went to the bathroom when I bought gas. Each stop was about five minutes. I did not stop to eat. The trip took about 9:30 and I was ready to be done in the last half hour. Three 20 minute stops would have extended the trip by about an hour even if it gets me out of a five minute bi weekly stop at a gas station or a semi annual 20 minute stop at Jiffy Lube.
If you took longer breaks, maybe you wouldn't have been so tired at the end.
Having a quiet EV on road trips helps with fatigue. It's even more relaxing if you have a Tesla that drives itself.
Even if by "biweekly", you mean every two weeks, that's 170 minutes for gas and oil changes during the year. If by "biweekly" you mean twice a week then it's 560 minutes.
You might still come out ahead with a gas car if you do a lot of long trips. But if you are driving so little that you only need oil changes twice a year, that's probably not the case.
Trust me, it's really nice to never worry about keeping your tank full. With an EV you leave home with a full battery every morning.
I've done that drive many times, sometimes with breaks, sometimes not. In the last 50 miles or so I am always ready to be done. It's not really fatigue. I've just had enough for the day. I don't want a car that drives itself. I don't even want one that shifts gears itself. And you can't be serious comparing five minutes every two weeks at a gas station with adding an hour to an otherwise nine plus hour trip. But in case you are, there's a world of difference between that and adding five minutes to an otherwise thirty minute outing. In the first case I'm sitting someplace for a long time doing nothing but waiting and in the second I'm using the pump and being on my way. I have never worried about keeping my tank full. I might very well worry about my charge giving out.
I get it. You really like electric cars. That's fine. Not everyone does.
I went to the bathroom when I bought gas. Each stop was about five minutes. I did not stop to eat. The trip took about 9:30 and I was ready to be done in the last half hour. Three 20 minute stops would have extended the trip by about an hour even if it gets me out of a five minute bi weekly stop at a gas station or a semi annual 20 minute stop at Jiffy Lube.
If you took longer breaks, maybe you wouldn't have been so tired at the end.
Having a quiet EV on road trips helps with fatigue. It's even more relaxing if you have a Tesla that drives itself.
Even if by "biweekly", you mean every two weeks, that's 170 minutes for gas and oil changes during the year. If by "biweekly" you mean twice a week then it's 560 minutes.
You might still come out ahead with a gas car if you do a lot of long trips. But if you are driving so little that you only need oil changes twice a year, that's probably not the case.
Trust me, it's really nice to never worry about keeping your tank full. With an EV you leave home with a full battery every morning.
I’m an EV owner and am bullish on EVs, but can you ever just admit that you are wrong? sheesh You’re really annoying.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! China gives zero phooks about the environment.
You can continue to think that if it makes you feel superior.
With the Inflation Reduction Act we are just now starting to take the kinds of steps that China has been taking for several years. But neither nation is doing enough. Not even close.
Why would pointing out that china doesn't care about the environment make me feel superior? Humans in general have already destroyed much of the planet.
The industrial revolution even though it drastically increased the quality of life for humans has done irreparable damage to the environment. Debating if gas or electric cars are better for the environment is like arguing if pestilence or plague is the better way to die.
People that passionately argue for something that is just slightly less horrible for the environment are strange to me. Electric cars under any definition are not good for the environment. Humans are a virus.
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