The current rules seems to work - except for a couple of consolations prizes we haven't seen a single intersex athlete win yet this year - that means they ARE beatable with current regulations - and let's face it, everything behind gold is just a consolations prize anyway. ;-P
On a side note I've always wondered why the norm isn't FIVE medals? That's a much more natural number to work with. One generation ago T&A invented the three-way semifinals (and didn't even bother to rename it despite semi meaning half/two). There's no reason we couldn't have an expansion to five medals in the near future.
The solution for the Trans and DSD issues is the same, and Great Britain Triathlon has figured it out.
One division for XX human beings and another Open Division for everyone else.
It ain't complicated.
The thing is, we need to stop referring to gender, which can be chosen or misidentified, and use chromosomes as the basis for assignment to a division.
So XX male syndrome can compete in the women's division?
A policy that will address 99.9999% of the problem is a good start.
XX male syndrome has only been reported in a few hundred cases, ever, and estimates are that it could occur in only somewhere between 1 in 20,000 and 30,000 male births. People with it tend to be shorter than average and might never compete in sports at a high level.
A policy isn't bad because we can dream up a one-in-a-million scenario that would challenge it.
It would have been funny/amusing/interesting if the women in the 2016 800 olympics had stayed at the starting line when the gun went off and let the 3 open category athletes run. Then when that was over ask the starter to begin the women's race.
Why would anyone support biological males being able to compete against females. Wanting to be a woman doesn’t make you a woman. To allow this to continue is complete nonsense or should I say unfair and stupid.
Do people really still not understand the difference between DSD and trans? One is assigned at birth, the other is chosen later in life and involves transitioning. Most of the DSD athletes believed they were girls throughout their upbringing and will identify as such
christine mboma looks every bit as femenine as the roided women shes competing against in the sprints.she doesnt stand out,at all.masilingi looks more masculine,but again,she doesnt stand out too much in the sprints.ive always said that if mboma had turned up,and ran 51.8 in the 400,and was run out in the olympic semi finals,or ran a 23 second 200,no one would have even noticed she was dsd.her mistake was that she ran too fast.
Doesn't believe that you are females gets thrown out the window when you don't get a period, while other young women around you do?
Emilie's statement is dead-on accurate. They are 2 different situations. However, as NYDC points out, there will be a time when these particular individuals - I literally mean these particular athletes, not necessarily every biologicaly-similar individual - find out they have no female organs or characteristics, but in fact have male ones.
There will be various 3rd world folks who never figure this all out. "I have no periods, have a beard that I frantically shave, seem to be very big and muscular compared to all women in the village but average among the men. Maybe Allah cursed me." They may go their entire lives without anyone pointing out, "You have the male, aka, Y chromosome."
But, we are talking about athletes who know exactly and specifically that this is the deal. And yet, they continue to identify as female. I wrote 'continue'. It is true that, lacking a certain appendage, they were told they were female right out of the gate. Prior to puberty, nothing happened that would lead anyone to question this. The first poster pointed this out.
The second quoted poster, however, pointed out that a time came when they could have figured out what was going on, and did. In the case of Semenya, et.al., it is perfectly clear to themselves that they meet at least some definition (possession of various internal organs and lack of others, as well as hormone levels) of 'male'. The fact that they continue to claim to be female without mammary glands, ovaries, uterus, etc. is where they overlap with trans athletes.
Both of the quoted posters are right in my view. A certain highly-publicized swimmer grew up being told he was male. At some point, he tells everyone including the NCAA to consider him female. In contrast, these runners thought they were by all metrics female for half their lives. (This is where DSD and trans are very different.) But for the other half, they have been living the charade that trans individuals are. The trans vs. DSD situations are not as different as some contend. They both have Y chromosomes and male hormone levels - and are aware of such - yet identify as women.
Both of the quoted posters are right in my view. A certain highly-publicized swimmer grew up being told he was male. At some point, he tells everyone including the NCAA to consider him female. **He wasn't told he was male , he has a penis and knows he's male (to this day)
Both of the quoted posters are right in my view. A certain highly-publicized swimmer grew up being told he was male. At some point, he tells everyone including the NCAA to consider him female. **He wasn't told he was male , he has a penis and knows he's male (to this day)
In reality, he was told he was male from birth. No one ever told him otherwise. That is not what created his male-ness; his Y chromosome did. You can be told something that is true. No one told him he was female, but he suddenly started telling everyone else that.
But how often are the athletes tested during that 6 month period? Once a month? Once a week? Every day Is all the testing regularly scheduled, are random suprise tests done? randomly? When the testing is done, what time of day does it occur? Male T levels usually vary in the morning and the evening.
In the case before the CAS, Semenya and Semenya's side argued that a big problem with IAAF/WA's T suppression regulations is that it's very hard for people with testes to reduce their T to below a certain threshold consistently and reliably using medications alone. Even when they take their medications religiously, their T is bound to be above the threshhold at certain times.
I don't know how often they are tested or whether it is random or not. Ask WA.
Testosterone alone isn't a good measure unless you also have a reliable way of testing androgen sensitivity. If you limit the T levels of those athletes who are significantly insensitive to testosterone, they could end up being disadvantaged beyond typical biological women.
...
Just to throw a spanner in the works, I wonder if there are any 'undetected' DSD athletes who already lowered their T levels in order to compete? We wouldn't find out, especially if they are phenotypically female and from say Jamaica or US.
If someone is androgen insensitive, does lowering the t level lower their athletic ability? I would expect the effect is nil in case of people with CAIS, except for possible side effects of medication. It will somewhat lower the athletic ability of people with PAIS, but how is that "disadvantage"? Isn't it more like erasing the advantage that they shouldn't have?
As for your last point, there is already some speculation (with no evidence) about a certain 400m runner. She might be lowering her t level instead of moving down to 200m.
christine mboma looks every bit as femenine as the roided women shes competing against in the sprints.she doesnt stand out,at all.masilingi looks more masculine,but again,she doesnt stand out too much in the sprints.ive always said that if mboma had turned up,and ran 51.8 in the 400,and was run out in the olympic semi finals,or ran a 23 second 200,no one would have even noticed she was dsd.her mistake was that she ran too fast.
So what if Mboma looks "feminine"? Lots of males look "feminine."
Women's sports are for female people, not for persons of either sex who who have feminine appearance and affect.
Moreover, women's sports are for female people of all kinds of gender presentation. Lots of female people don't look conventionally feminine, but we and they still belong in the women's category.
Your claim that "no one would have even noticed" that Mboma is XY DSD if Mboma hadn't run so fast doesn't make sense to me.
Once Mboma reached the level of competition where Mboma became subject to WA, WADA and IOC regulations, Mboma's testosterone levels were checked - as happens to all elite athletes of such high calibre that they have a chance of making it to the Olympics. And the tests apparently showed that Mboma's T was/is in the male range.
Officials would have noticed that Mboma has a level of T that indicates Mboma is XY with testes even if Mboma had run the times you mention. In fact, officials would have noticed that Mboma has male levels of T even if Mboma got DQ'd at the start of Mboma's races, or withdrew from them entirely due to injury or for another reason.
Hailing from one of the world's poorest country, Nigerien sprinter Aminatou Seyni is no stranger to life's hurdles, but as she prepares for the Tokyo 2020 Olympics, the 23-year-old faces fresh obstacles.
