How long has the Prius been around? Do you really think Toyota has learned nothing from those decades of experience? For starters, I’d say they were smarter from the beginning in recognizing the lack of charging infrastructure and benefits of a gasoline backup motor and building their car accordingly. They also have a *bit* more experience building vehicles in general than Tesla.
Toyota doesn't know much about building pure EVs. It's a completely different kind of vehicle.
Yes, Toyota was smart to come out with hybrids when they did. But since then they were stupid to put all their best R&D into hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.
Now they are way behind.
I'm not opposed to Teslas, I just think they're overpriced. I would buy a Model Y if it were 40k anticipated, but for 67k and no tax credit no way.
Toyota is fully capable of making a great BEV but they chose not to. The BZ4X is okay but could have been so much better. The Rav4 Prime has a 18kwh battery with 42 mile rated range, but most people get 50+ miles in the summer. It's basically a BEV with a small battery pack. Most Rav4 Prime owners use EV mode 95% of the time. I've only filled up my gas tank twice so far this year.
It takes less than 5 seconds. I plug it in at night and wake up to a full charge. If you have home charging, the only time you worry about speed of charging is on road trips.
I added a 240V 40 amp charger to my garage. I decided to have an electrician install a NEMA 14-50 plug. But a lot of people go with a hard-wired charger, which also requires an electrician.
The whole project cost about $1000 installed, but I also got a $400 rebate from my electric company. So it cost about $600 overall.
So you expect the average American to spend $1000 on the charger?
What is the cost of the electricity?
Full EV will never be more than a novelty. Not until the infrastructure and technology changes.
Americans don't even buy Hybrids because of they way they sound and the unfamiliarity.
Alan
$1,000 on a charger is nothing compared to the cost of a new car, gas, oil changes etc. I have a Rav4 Prime plug in hybrid. It's rated for 42 miles of EV range but I get 55 on a full charge. I drive in EV mode 95% of the time, as do most R4P owners. I've only filled up my gas tank twice this year. I know plenty of people who have already spent more than $1,000 on gas so far this year. With the federal tax credit and state rebate, my PHEV was the same cost as a regular hybrid RAV4.
I agree, the EV infrastructure isn't there for a family to go full BEV. For a one car family, PHEV is best. For a 2 car family, the best combo is a PHEV and a BEV. That way both spouses can drive to work without using gas, and the PHEV can be used for long trips without the range anxiety or stopping to charge. We can charge at the hotel overnight too. Best of both worlds. We put a deposit on a VW ID4. We will never buy a full ICE again.
There is not enough lithium in the world to supply that many EVs. People are still waiting for their 2021 orders to be fulfilled.
They aren't waiting because of a lithium shortage. There may come a day later this decade where lithium mining and refining is the bottleneck, but we aren't there yet.
The reason people (including me) are still waiting for 2021 orders to be fulfilled is because demand is so high and nobody can make EVs fast enough.
Tesla is the only company currently able to make EVs in high volume and they can't keep up with demand either. That's why prices are so high. But even rising prices doesn't seem to be scaring off Tesla customers. Waiting lists are still very long.
I agree, the EV infrastructure isn't there for a family to go full BEV. For a one car family, PHEV is best. For a 2 car family, the best combo is a PHEV and a BEV. That way both spouses can drive to work without using gas, and the PHEV can be used for long trips without the range anxiety or stopping to charge. We can charge at the hotel overnight too. Best of both worlds. We put a deposit on a VW ID4. We will never buy a full ICE again.
PHEVs can be a good compromise, but it just isn't true that EV infrastructure isn't there yet. We've been a two-EV family for over a year when we sold our hybrid.
And every road trip we have taken since 2017 has been in a full EV. Even back then, we preferred the EV to the hybrid. Today, we always take the Tesla. Superchargers are everywhere and they are very fast and reliable.
I've been talking about EVs for years. It is amazing how many people are misinformed about the subject, as you'll find anytime you try to comment in social media or some messageboard. The same old tropes are always thrown out ("not enough range!", "not enough charging infrastructure!", "not enough lithium!", "they run on coal!").
At the end of the day though, better technology and better prices always win out. That is what we are seeing with sales numbers - the numbers keep increasing at staggering rates despite all the negativity. Every year, better and better EVs come out, and this will continue.
I am convinced that all it takes to convince most people that EVs are the future is to let them drive one. So far, everyone who I've let test drive my Model 3 tells me they want to get one someday. Several have already put orders in.
I agree with "Fat hurts" - 90% of vehicles globally will be BEV by 2030. Actually, my S-curve growth curve has it reaching 90% globally by summer 2028. In the US, it may be closer to 2030. Note that it still leaves ~1.5m inferior gasoline/diesel vehicle sales for those resistant to change. Usually these people are the ones that still have landline phones.
As a side note - the way the technology is progressing, you should theoretically be able to buy a car with 1000mi range in 2030 for the same cost as a 300mi range EV today. Though I don't see range ever getting that high as it is not needed.
I am convinced that all it takes to convince most people that EVs are the future is to let them drive one. So far, everyone who I've let test drive my Model 3 tells me they want to get one someday. Several have already put orders in.
Same here. At least two people I know of have bought Teslas after seeing mine.
This is why Tesla doesn't need to advertise. It's just a better car, with features you can't get anywhere else. The product sells itself.
Lol I thought there was trolling going on before. That’s why I ignored your posts after a while. Now there is no doubt. Well played.
There is still time to make a lot of money on Tesla stock. I've been advising people to buy at around the $650 level. You could still get some at that price yesterday, but we might never see it that low again.
I already made my money on Tesla. Bought in early 2019 and sold the minute it hit $1000. Ultimately, I see it going the way of Netflix. It may have another bump or two in it, but it will eventually settle lower than it is now. My funny money is best put elsewhere at this point.
But if you have any more hot “late to the party” stock tips, let me know. Lol
There is still time to make a lot of money on Tesla stock. I've been advising people to buy at around the $650 level. You could still get some at that price yesterday, but we might never see it that low again.
I already made my money on Tesla. Bought in early 2019 and sold the minute it hit $1000. Ultimately, I see it going the way of Netflix. It may have another bump or two in it, but it will eventually settle lower than it is now. My funny money is best put elsewhere at this point.
But if you have any more hot “late to the party” stock tips, let me know. Lol
I started investing in Tesla not long after you, but I've held onto mine. I don't think we will ever see the quick 10x returns again, but Tesla still has a long way to run from here.
The comparison to Netflix is silly. It was relatively easy for the competition to take market share away from Netflix. If you have followed the legacy autos trying to ramp EV production you see that for autos, it's not so easy.
The competition ain't coming. They are on the path to bankruptcy instead.
I already made my money on Tesla. Bought in early 2019 and sold the minute it hit $1000. Ultimately, I see it going the way of Netflix. It may have another bump or two in it, but it will eventually settle lower than it is now. My funny money is best put elsewhere at this point.
But if you have any more hot “late to the party” stock tips, let me know. Lol
I started investing in Tesla not long after you, but I've held onto mine. I don't think we will ever see the quick 10x returns again, but Tesla still has a long way to run from here.
The comparison to Netflix is silly. It was relatively easy for the competition to take market share away from Netflix. If you have followed the legacy autos trying to ramp EV production you see that for autos, it's not so easy.
The competition ain't coming. They are on the path to bankruptcy instead.
Toyota doesn't know much about building pure EVs. It's a completely different kind of vehicle.
Yes, Toyota was smart to come out with hybrids when they did. But since then they were stupid to put all their best R&D into hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.
Now they are way behind.
I’m trying to imagine how building a pure EV is somehow more difficult than building a hybrid. I can’t.
It's not necessarily more difficult. It's just different. The legacy autos have to adapt their mindset and change everything from assembly, tooling, design, parts, testing, supply chain, engineering talent, etc. Basically, everything.
An EV is a fundamentally different machine from a hybrid.
To catch up to Tesla, they also need to change their business model. That's the toughest one of all.
We waited 5 months for a Jeep Wrangler. Infiniti isn’t taking orders right now.
Supply chain for chips is holding up everything up. And all cars need these chips.
That's true. The difference is that Tesla is delivering more cars than ever and the others are losing ground.
The chip shortage hasn't hurt Tesla as much because they write their own firmware. So Tesla can easily swap out different kinds of chips and program them to their own specs. Other automakers don't have that level of software expertise and flexibility.
There is not enough lithium in the world to supply that many EVs. People are still waiting for their 2021 orders to be fulfilled.
They aren't waiting because of a lithium shortage. There may come a day later this decade where lithium mining and refining is the bottleneck, but we aren't there yet.
The reason people (including me) are still waiting for 2021 orders to be fulfilled is because demand is so high and nobody can make EVs fast enough.
Tesla is the only company currently able to make EVs in high volume and they can't keep up with demand either. That's why prices are so high. But even rising prices doesn't seem to be scaring off Tesla customers. Waiting lists are still very long.
Waiting lists are long for any car. Rav4 Prime, ID4, Ioniq5, EV6, BZ4X etc are all 1 year+. Musk said himself that prices are high due to skyrocketing material costs, not demand.
I agree, the EV infrastructure isn't there for a family to go full BEV. For a one car family, PHEV is best. For a 2 car family, the best combo is a PHEV and a BEV. That way both spouses can drive to work without using gas, and the PHEV can be used for long trips without the range anxiety or stopping to charge. We can charge at the hotel overnight too. Best of both worlds. We put a deposit on a VW ID4. We will never buy a full ICE again.
PHEVs can be a good compromise, but it just isn't true that EV infrastructure isn't there yet. We've been a two-EV family for over a year when we sold our hybrid.
And every road trip we have taken since 2017 has been in a full EV. Even back then, we preferred the EV to the hybrid. Today, we always take the Tesla. Superchargers are everywhere and they are very fast and reliable.
Depends on where you are. My relatives had a Model Y and they said it was a nightmare to drive from Boston to Toronto. They had to go out of their way to charge and wait around. They sold it and bought a Toyota Highlander. By the way the backseat of the Y is horrible. My Rav4 is 10x more comfortable to sit in.
I think Tesla fanboys have tunnel vision. The average American cannot afford a $400 emergency much less a $50k Tesla without tax credit. EVs are a niche and Teslas are a niche of a niche. My wife and I can afford a Tesla but it's overpriced and uncomfortable so we aren't interested. We can literally get 2 Volkswagen ID4s for the price of one Model Y due to the lower price and tax credit and state rebates. There is no the majority of America will be driving EVs in less than ten years. All of my neighbors won't even upgrade their lawn mower or snowblower to an electric one.
I'm all for EVs but you gotta think of what the average American wants. They want an all wheel drive truck that they can take off road and tow thousands of pounds. No BEVs or PHEVs can do that now. I'm not a car enthusiast, I use it to get to work and back so I couldn't care less for the software. The only reason we are getting an ID4 is because of the tax incentives, otherwise we'd just get an an ICE RAV4 or CR-V because it's too expensive.
