Westbay Champs wrote:
danube steak wrote:
I am not sure the Newbury boys would have broken 15:00 today. Didn't Bergen run like 14:10 at Running Lane?
today s race, no one wanted to lead the race and caused it to be slow. It made for a more exciting race. Newbury Park had 3 in front of the winner of todays race.
Pretty sure Gavin Sherry wanted to lead the race and did until he couldn’t.
75 still alive wrote:
I wonder how many other girls and/or boys who've competed have also had a parent who did likewise.
Sara Hall's daughter Mia missed qualifying for EB this year by less than a second finishing 11th at EB West. She also was an individual qualifier at NXR SW for the non-occurring NXN. She is a junior so gets another shot next year. This is a different twist on the saying that to run fast you need to choose your parents wisely.
75 still alive wrote:
The Balboa Park course changes every year, isn't even the same as it was in 2019 and is totally different from decades ago. The terrain is fine but constantly changes from year to year. However, the course itself, with the constant turns, narrow paths, and lack of clear markings on where to run, is ridiculous. This was especially egregious this morning, as there were several wrong turns in both of the races which allowed the fields to quickly catch back up to the leaders.
Eastbay should find a much better location so they can have a real cross country course with a legitimate layout.
When did anyone take a wrong turn? Don't the kids run the course the day before? Wasn't there a meeting about the the course with their Regional coaches?
fh wrote:
75 still alive wrote:
I wonder how many other girls and/or boys who've competed have also had a parent who did likewise.
Sara Hall's daughter Mia missed qualifying for EB this year by less than a second finishing 11th at EB West. She also was an individual qualifier at NXR SW for the non-occurring NXN. She is a junior so gets another shot next year. This is a different twist on the saying that to run fast you need to choose your parents wisely.
in this case it is more like chose yours. If the Halls went Jamacian instead of ethopian the odds of the kid making footlocker would be a lot lower.
Wise Old Man wrote:
freekiprop wrote:
huh
What’s so hard to understand? Pala ran 14:24 at Mt Sac this year on the “old course.” This is the 2nd fastest time ever, faster than Ryan Hall, faster than Jeff Nelson. This is probably one of the top few boys’ performances in the nation this year. You think A Sahlman would have run much faster? At the state meet Sahlman ran 14:46 to finish a distant 4th in the D1 race and Pala broke Cooper Teare’s
D5 record and comfortably won in 14:51. Maybe Aaron Sahlman is better than Pala, but if so, not by much, and I don’t think he is.
What old course. The "old course changed through out the years.
SAC thrown a curve
Pasadena Star-News Online
College: Mt. SAC thrown a curve
Course improvements call into question the validity of new marks
October 18, 2001
By Richard Gonzalez
Staff Writer
October, 2000: Glendale Hoover High's Anita Siraki stuns the national prep
cross country community when she breaks the Mt. San Antonio College course
record by a stunning 17 seconds.
November, 2000: Big Bear High's Ryan Hall runs the Mt. SAC course in
14:28, slicing four seconds off Jeff Nelson's 22-year-old boys course
record.
November, 2000: Don Lugo High's Erick Maldonado smashes the sophomore boys
course record as five of the six fastest 10th-grade course times in
history are achieved. All told, a whopping 39 revisions are made to the
all-time grade lists.
Oddly enough, these standout runners have enjoyed ample success before and
since, but not quite to the degree achieved recently along the revered
2.95-mile Mt. SAC course.
Well, maybe it's because the course had been shortened to 2.91 miles.
Mt. SAC cross country women's coach Doug Todd has confirmed in three
separate interviews since last November that the course has indeed been
shortened, an end result of safety concerns, course upgrades and
environmental effects.
"We struggled not to make the changes, because the Mt. SAC course and the
meet are so steeped in history," said Todd, who oversees this weekend's
conclusion of the 54th annual Mt. SAC Cross Country Invitational, the
nation's largest.
"Some changes were unavoidable, but it doesn't make accepting the changes
any easier."
The most notable change was reconfiguring a portion of the "Valley Loop"
as a safety matter. With the number of entrants swelling to match the
meet's growth in popularity, maneuvering along the original course's
sharp, jutting turn less than a minute into the race created logistical
problems.
Mt. SAC staff changed it to a sweeping and easier to navigate path, which
Todd estimates cut about five seconds off each loop or 10 seconds per
runner off the double loop. If his estimate is accurate, that translates
to roughly a 50-second team-time (five runners) improvement over
"pre-renovation" years.
Additionally, heavy rains a few years ago caused erosion along some
patches of the course. Throw in the beautification steps imposed in recent
years a wider running path, planting of shade-producing trees along the
route, and considerable landscaping to improve footing and the
once-imposing course becomes a more inviting one.
"We try to respect history and tradition, yet safety becomes a factor too
... a much more important factor," said Mt. SAC men's coach Mike Goff, who
is the one entrusted with the upkeep of the course.
"If course historians have a problem with it, I understand," Goff added.
"At the same time, if we can improve the course to maximum conditions for
runners, that's great, too. Bottom line, the best teams and runners will
still win."
The only drawback now is that the ever-popular time comparisons by
generations of runners might lack integrity, since the course has changed.
It used to be when one California runner would meet another, the first
question was: "What's your best time at Mt. SAC?"
Regardless, the course still offers a tough test to challengers.
"Well, Mt. SAC's been too hot, too dusty, too slow, too crowded, too
hard," said Goff, echoing some critics over the years. "And now... they
say it's too fast. That's a new one."
I finally watched the race recaps. Exciting races that's worth the time to view.
Jenna H. wrote:
Wise Old Man wrote:
What’s so hard to understand? Pala ran 14:24 at Mt Sac this year on the “old course.” This is the 2nd fastest time ever, faster than Ryan Hall, faster than Jeff Nelson. This is probably one of the top few boys’ performances in the nation this year. You think A Sahlman would have run much faster? At the state meet Sahlman ran 14:46 to finish a distant 4th in the D1 race and Pala broke Cooper Teare’s
D5 record and comfortably won in 14:51. Maybe Aaron Sahlman is better than Pala, but if so, not by much, and I don’t think he is.
What old course. The "old course changed through out the years.
SAC thrown a curve
Pasadena Star-News Online
College: Mt. SAC thrown a curve
Course improvements call into question the validity of new marks
October 18, 2001
By Richard Gonzalez
Staff Writer
October, 2000: Glendale Hoover High's Anita Siraki stuns the national prep
cross country community when she breaks the Mt. San Antonio College course
record by a stunning 17 seconds.
November, 2000: Big Bear High's Ryan Hall runs the Mt. SAC course in
14:28, slicing four seconds off Jeff Nelson's 22-year-old boys course
record.
November, 2000: Don Lugo High's Erick Maldonado smashes the sophomore boys
course record as five of the six fastest 10th-grade course times in
history are achieved. All told, a whopping 39 revisions are made to the
all-time grade lists.
Oddly enough, these standout runners have enjoyed ample success before and
since, but not quite to the degree achieved recently along the revered
2.95-mile Mt. SAC course.
Well, maybe it's because the course had been shortened to 2.91 miles.
Mt. SAC cross country women's coach Doug Todd has confirmed in three
separate interviews since last November that the course has indeed been
shortened, an end result of safety concerns, course upgrades and
environmental effects.
"We struggled not to make the changes, because the Mt. SAC course and the
meet are so steeped in history," said Todd, who oversees this weekend's
conclusion of the 54th annual Mt. SAC Cross Country Invitational, the
nation's largest.
"Some changes were unavoidable, but it doesn't make accepting the changes
any easier."
The most notable change was reconfiguring a portion of the "Valley Loop"
as a safety matter. With the number of entrants swelling to match the
meet's growth in popularity, maneuvering along the original course's
sharp, jutting turn less than a minute into the race created logistical
problems.
Mt. SAC staff changed it to a sweeping and easier to navigate path, which
Todd estimates cut about five seconds off each loop or 10 seconds per
runner off the double loop. If his estimate is accurate, that translates
to roughly a 50-second team-time (five runners) improvement over
"pre-renovation" years.
Additionally, heavy rains a few years ago caused erosion along some
patches of the course. Throw in the beautification steps imposed in recent
years a wider running path, planting of shade-producing trees along the
route, and considerable landscaping to improve footing and the
once-imposing course becomes a more inviting one.
"We try to respect history and tradition, yet safety becomes a factor too
... a much more important factor," said Mt. SAC men's coach Mike Goff, who
is the one entrusted with the upkeep of the course.
"If course historians have a problem with it, I understand," Goff added.
"At the same time, if we can improve the course to maximum conditions for
runners, that's great, too. Bottom line, the best teams and runners will
still win."
The only drawback now is that the ever-popular time comparisons by
generations of runners might lack integrity, since the course has changed.
It used to be when one California runner would meet another, the first
question was: "What's your best time at Mt. SAC?"
Regardless, the course still offers a tough test to challengers.
"Well, Mt. SAC's been too hot, too dusty, too slow, too crowded, too
hard," said Goff, echoing some critics over the years. "And now... they
say it's too fast. That's a new one."
and many call that a 5k...but at least it has hills so the times aren't as fast as some of the grass track out there, even at 2.91
Wise Old Man wrote:
freekiprop wrote:
huh
What’s so hard to understand? Pala ran 14:24 at Mt Sac this year on the “old course.” This is the 2nd fastest time ever, faster than Ryan Hall, faster than Jeff Nelson. This is probably one of the top few boys’ performances in the nation this year. You think A Sahlman would have run much faster? At the state meet Sahlman ran 14:46 to finish a distant 4th in the D1 race and Pala broke Cooper Teare’s D5 record and comfortably won in 14:51. Maybe Aaron Sahlman is better than Pala, but if so, not by much, and I don’t think he is.
Interestingly, 14:46 is better than 14:51. So is the 14:43 that he ran 6 weeks ago. Its also better than Ryan Hall's 14:50. I don't care one bit about him winning d5 and Aaron coming in 4th in d1. Pala didn't have 3 8:40 (conservative estimate) 3200 guys in his division. Sure, maybe on mt. sac pala wins as Aaron seems to struggle with hills, but Im not sure Id call him the better runner.
Williamson wrote:
Westbay Champs wrote:
today s race, no one wanted to lead the race and caused it to be slow. It made for a more exciting race. Newbury Park had 3 in front of the winner of todays race.
Pretty sure Gavin Sherry wanted to lead the race and did until he couldn’t.
No one really pushed the pace hard. Being in the from is different then pushing it. Like I said the race was exciting to watch though
Blondes have more fun? wrote:
75 still alive wrote:
The Balboa Park course changes every year, isn't even the same as it was in 2019 and is totally different from decades ago. The terrain is fine but constantly changes from year to year.
However, the course itself, with the constant turns, narrow paths, and lack of clear markings on where to run, is ridiculous. This was especially egregious this morning, as there were several wrong turns in both of the races which allowed the fields to quickly catch back up to the leaders.
Eastbay should find a much better location so they can have a real cross country course with a legitimate layout.
When did anyone take a wrong turn? Don't the kids run the course the day before? Wasn't there a meeting about the the course with their Regional coaches?
Yes, the kids run the course the day before and they also talk to their coaches about the course.
"75 still alive" had a lot of things wrong in their post criticizing the Balboa Park course.
I didn't see any wrong turns in the boy's race. The girl's race had 3 instances where the lead girl took only one step in the wrong direction before quickly correcting herself, but "one step" is not the same thing as a "wrong turn." In none of those 3 instances did it allow the "fields to quickly catch back up to the leaders" as the previous poster incorrectly claimed.
(Those 3 times were because the lead girl took one step towards following the cart with the video camera off the course before realizing her mistake, because she kept forgetting that the lead cart was only there for video streaming purposes and wasn't there to lead the race. )
The poster also incorrectly claimed that there were a "lack of clear markings on where to run." That's false. The entire 5K length of the course was painted on the ground on both sides of the path where they run, except for one loop where it was painted on only the inside part. There were also either cones or ropes the entire length of the course.
Also, the terrain does not "constantly change from year to year" as the posted incorrectly claimed. And the course is not "totally different from decades ago." Only the first two years (1979 and 1980) were different because they ran the race in a completely different part of Balboa Park.
It's pathetic that this poster chose to make a lot of things up just because they don't like the Balboa Park course.
And the only (very minor) change in the Balboa Park course between 2019 and 2021 was because it rained the Thursday and Friday before this year's race and they had to make one turn slightly larger to go around a muddy spot that the cart with the video camera would have had a hard time going through. Which means that they had to make another turn later in the race slightly smaller to compensate.
Is she trans?
Sadie Engelhardt got beat by another freshman