I’d say guilty. I don’t buy any of this clean athletics nonsense. At the peak of Russia’s doping Team GB caught and surpassed them.
But I’d hope there’s the flexibility within these anti-doping organisations to conduct simple tests - namely buying Mexican food from taco shops (ideally the one she bought from), if not tracing the supplier - to see if there can at least be some benefit of a doubt resulting in a reduced ban.
jocko, I honestly think I'd go with not guilty with a gun to my head. My gut is telling me she didn't do it. I don't think anyone who has posted is an expert on this, either, so seeing people spew out numbers like they know what they are talking about is kind of amusing.
fdafdad wrote:
jocko, I honestly think I'd go with not guilty with a gun to my head. My gut is telling me she didn't do it. I don't think anyone who has posted is an expert on this, either, so seeing people spew out numbers like they know what they are talking about is kind of amusing.
When an athlete in a dirty sport from the dirtiest country of all tests positive and the same authorities usually inclined to look the other way come down as hard as they can you to be a complete fool to think not guilty.
A police investigation and the media thought this couple was guilty.
fdafdad wrote:
jocko, I honestly think I'd go with not guilty with a gun to my head. My gut is telling me she didn't do it. I don't think anyone who has posted is an expert on this, either, so seeing people spew out numbers like they know what they are talking about is kind of amusing.
The experts are the testing agency and they already decided and refused her appeal. A 4 year ban is substantial meaning they have no doubts. I believe the experts over your gut.
After listening to the podcast; there are many questions, procedural issues, scientific facts, previous precedent surrounding contaminated food indigestion that create, in my mind, a very high level of reasonable doubt.
Not knowing Wada’s side, it is difficult to state unequivocally her innocence but I will say I strongly feel she is innocent based on what I listened to from her, her lawyer, her coaches, her polygraph, hair sample, learning how this drug can occur naturally, the trace level which she tested positive for, the timing of events and procedure.
Please listen to the podcast, gain knowledge, before making quick decision statements.
Where is the evidence of Purrier milking pigs on a dairy farm?
toozy wrote:
I’d say guilty. I don’t buy any of this clean athletics nonsense. At the peak of Russia’s doping Team GB caught and surpassed them.
Another American/Russian/Kenyan gets busted.
El Keniano types: "See, told you about those dirty Brits".
she is ripped wrote:
The only thing I would believe is that her steroids were tainted. Bad supplier seems common with supplements, and even more so with illegal supplements- and she ended up taking nandrolone when she usually dosed with a steroid with a shorter half life. So perhaps they were all genuinely shocked she got popped for nandrolone since she was never meant to be on it and why they knew she wouldn’t have it in a hair sample. But no way do I believe she tested for it from eating a taco, even if that taco was from an authentic Mexican food truck, which is where most body builders go for their nandrolone.
One of the great things about LetsRun is that if you're willing to wade through the trolls and BSers, you can sometimes find something that makes sense.
This, combined with another poster's comment that nandrolone would have to be injected, is the most plausible explanation. It's also telling that she got a 4-year suspension. My guess is that WADA has more to their opinion that they're not sharing.
Jo72 wrote:
Tbh among caucasian world class runners Houlihan is the one bust I am least shocked about. I had suspected that she was maybe using some legal exception because of her medical condition. Because she looks strange and also a bit like a bodybuilder.
But, although this is anecdotal, she has had the most striking improvement of any non-African middle/long distance runner in the last 5 years I remember. And this was before the supershoes. As it is still on youtube, I invite everyone to watch the Berlin ISTAF 2017 1500m race. Admittedly, it was end of season and she had run 5000m at the WC (15:00 heat, 15:06 for 13th in the final) but it was her season's best of 4:06. It is an almost perfectly paced race, great conditions, lots of PBs. Houlihan fades after half the distance, she is clearly one class behind McColgan and two classes behind (pre NOP 20 yo) Klosterhalfen (who were 1 and 2 in that race). Less than a year later, beginning with 2018 indoor, she destroyed runners one level above Klosterhalfen like Muir or Hassan in sub 4 1500m sprint finishes, improves almost 30 sec. in the 5k and so it goes on 2019 and 2020. And this was not from a HS or college runner turning pro but between age 24 and 26.
That's not clear evidence, of course, but it raised all kinds of red flags for me.
(Frerich's silver and AR in the following year were similar improvements but in a much weaker event from a lower level and without totally destroying runners who had been a class above less than a year earlier.)
+1 excellent post.
Me too
itred wrote:
fdafdad wrote:
jocko, I honestly think I'd go with not guilty with a gun to my head. My gut is telling me she didn't do it. I don't think anyone who has posted is an expert on this, either, so seeing people spew out numbers like they know what they are talking about is kind of amusing.
The experts are the testing agency and they already decided and refused her appeal. A 4 year ban is substantial meaning they have no doubts. I believe the experts over your gut.
It was said during the podcast that a single director of the lab used made the finding.
It would not surprise me that people within a governing body such as Wada would group together around an unclear finding, at the expense of a single athlete, to keep intact the power structure of that organization.
So obvious that it makes me wonder about the intelligence of Letsrun deniers.
Lol. Guilty as hell.
Just the wrong guilty for most people here, so you'll see very passionate defenders.
Guilty as charged. Until proven otherwise from testing.
Thought Lance was the man. The OVERLORD of TDF then Ironman Triathlon.
think first wrote:
Who in their right mind would believe that neither Houlihan nor Schumacher knew what Nandrolone is. Also what professional athlete with olympic medal hopes eats a burrito from a food truck... And keeps a receipt of it. And has GPS turned on.
Not saying anything either way but:
1) many people have gps permanently turned on and there are ways to see where you’ve been in your google location history (Apple might have this too)
2) many good trucks use point of sale systems that email you receipts auromatically (if a Square identify profile / email is linked to your card I believe this can end up generating an emailed receipt without putting your email in at the particular place… could be wrong on this but there’s something to this effect)
Sorry you painted yourself into a corner. I get it. You are desperate, so bias card it is.
When your favorite is beating dopers, they are doping too. Sorry.
The worst evidence against she and Jerry (especially Jerry) is the claim that they never heard of Nandro. I'm sorry, that's just not possible. But in general, if not in this instance, this food contamination with drugs issue is a real one and pertinent agencies need to adjust according.
Ray Cyst wrote:
There is no question that she was doping, she got massively swole and it was obvious. I told people that she had to be juicing and they laughed, saying that steroids would hurt her and not help her. She took the 2019 Worlds loss very poorly thinking that she was robbed by dopers. She was convinced that the 3 women in front of her were cheating so she finally threw in the towel and adopted the If you can't beat them, join them mentality. It backfired on her and her crocodile tears are not going to save her. I actually agree with her about 2 of the 3 that beat her at worlds, but the winner was and is absolutely clean whether people believe it or not.
Why is Hassan not equally suspect? Netherlands has the capacity for very sophisticated doping.