work work wrote:
She should sue every professor that she had because they should have helped her with her problems.
Then coach needs to be sued as well. (Not condoning this, but the coach is with the athlete many more times than any professor will ever be).
WinnytheBish wrote:
WinnytheBish wrote:
When it COSTS schools virtually nothing to have you show up to class and compete for them, I'd say calling it 250k is questionable.
Before anyone comments on this, I know exactly how much it costs to have an athlete on a team. I'm just saying calling it "free college" is misleading since they could have gone anywhere else.
Not sure how "free" it is. Look at the surveys of athletes to see how much time they spend on sport (the NCAA 20 hr rule is a joke as the exceptions are broad). There is a trade: you run for us and you get an education. Athletes also give up a certain amount of freedom (their choice, but the guy I knew in college on a music scholarship was under far fewer restrictions or scrutiny that the athletes who were on on grants-in-aid.
oh I read it. It sounded like a whiny rant from a spoiled child tbh. Coaches can't be everything. She clearly needed professional help or an attitude adjustment (complaining the girls weren't instantly her best friends?). She reminds me of a teammate I once had who went nuts and anorexic and blamed the whole team for her breakdown. At the end of the day she sounds like an unhappy, whiny person in general (crying about losing childhood games, etc). I'd say find what works for YOU but don't blame the coach, team, program, and sport for your unhappiness.
The Coach ran for Walt Drenth at Michigan State. This is where this attitude was learned and fostered. There were at least 10 women athletes that were on the MSU team that were exactly like this. Coach Drenth handled things exactly the same way.
The Floyd wrote:
I think a lot of you are missing the point about what is and isn't appropriate for a coach to do these days with a problematic athlete. Either this girl truly had mental health problems (which I'm inclined to believe) or she was a drama queen making claims about issues, and anybody who has coached (like I have) has dealt with the latter, but the appropriate response of the coach in either situation in today's era is pretty much the same. The days when the coach can be "tough" or even give "tough love" are long behind us. Instead, if an athlete shows up claiming issues, you just send them directly to the doctor/therapist/counselors etc and wait for clearance from the admin for her to run again. And you flag it to the appropriate people in the athletic department. Full stop. You don't make judgments on your own about the validity of the issues, though you can do so to the admins as appropriate.
This approach in many ways actually makes life easier for the coach (though less good from a competition perspective) as you can largely wash your hands of the problem until clearance is received. Yes, this is a CYA approach, but it puts the coach out of the line of fire, and importantly in cases where the issues are truly serious, the athlete gets needed help.
This is not to say that the coach shouldn't develop relationships with the athletes and be a good and caring coach and human being, but any red flags need to be escalated. To do otherwise is to risk your job nowadays.
That’s a sad thing, but I have no doubt that you’re accurate.
ellenDnot wrote:
oh I read it. It sounded like a whiny rant from a spoiled child tbh. Coaches can't be everything. She clearly needed professional help or an attitude adjustment (complaining the girls weren't instantly her best friends?). She reminds me of a teammate I once had who went nuts and anorexic and blamed the whole team for her breakdown. At the end of the day she sounds like an unhappy, whiny person in general (crying about losing childhood games, etc). I'd say find what works for YOU but don't blame the coach, team, program, and sport for your unhappiness.
"I’ll never forget when one of my teammates came into my dorm room one night and broke down in tears when she told me that she found out one of the seniors peed in her food and left it in the fridge for her to eat. My teammate was so shaken up and confused that she didn’t even know what to do. She knew if she went to my coaches that they wouldn’t have believed her and definitely wouldn’t have done anything about it. This came after the endless bullying that came from a select group of upperclassmen on and off the court. The bullying was from anything and everything. It would be about our sexuality, reputation with the coaches, the mistakes we made in practice, which guys we were talking to, our weight, how we looked, anything really. I mean, I get it, were freshman, were not supposed to have it easy, but this was a whole other level. This was hazing."
https://scholarworks.uvm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2152&context=graddisMy daughter had a conversation with the coach during recruiting and hung up the phone and said one word. "Toxic". The team regularly made NCCA XC before her arrival but downhill since. Hoping this is a wake-up call.
What the heck is Steve Keith doing?
If he isn’t coaching and recruiting women’s xc athletes what does he do because he doesn’t seem to be mentioned in this at all. The athlete never went to the head coach?
melmelmel wrote:
My daughter had a conversation with the coach during recruiting and hung up the phone and said one word. "Toxic". The team regularly made NCCA XC before her arrival but downhill since. Hoping this is a wake-up call.
I don't know the Coach personally but I know that she ran at MSU. Pretty sad that a Coach can't just use common sense and compassion with all athletes, not just the top few. Running them into the ground, aiding in them getting injured, is not something to be proud of, in my humble opinion.
MSU has consistently had a better team hurt and not running than healthy and running. Take 40 runners beat them and see who is left standing. That is the Drenth way. If you break it is because you were too weak. If you complain you are not a team player. Vandy is simply conducting there team the same way. The problem is that Vandy doesn’t have 40 runners to start with. This is why MSU men aren’t as competitive as the women. Half the roster size means no one is left standing.
[quote]my son is a Spartan wrote:
MSU has consistently had a better team hurt and not running than healthy and running. Take 40 runners beat them and see who is left standing. That is the Drenth way. If you break it is because you were too weak. If you complain you are not a team player. Vandy is simply conducting there team the same way. The problem is that Vandy doesn’t have 40 runners to start with. This is why MSU men aren’t as competitive as the women. Half the roster size means no one is left standing.[/quote
This; exactly.
my son is a Spartan wrote:
MSU has consistently had a better team hurt and not running than healthy and running. Take 40 runners beat them and see who is left standing. That is the Drenth way. If you break it is because you were too weak. If you complain you are not a team player. Vandy is simply conducting there team the same way. The problem is that Vandy doesn’t have 40 runners to start with. This is why MSU men aren’t as competitive as the women. Half the roster size means no one is left standing.
Truthfully, is the REALLY the Drenth way?
i came up when you could talk to kids like that and get away with it. have no idea who this woman is (don't care to know) but what boggles the mind is that anyone would think this is an effective way to improve athlete or team performance.
certainly by the time you're giving the variation of the "suck it up, buttercup" speech where you compare their emotional state to your job security, you've already lost.
this was a 4:57 hs miler? just another great argument for d3. d3 is full of young women who ran that in hs and their coaches don't treat them like garbage.
Why assume that a coach who gets paid $25K is better than a voach who gets paid $100k? It is silly to assume that D3 coaches would be better. Do you think a surgeon who gets paid $100k is better than one who gets paid $1M? How about a roofer who charges you $5K instead of one who charges $20K? Do you think a used car that costs $5K is better than one that costs $25K? Have you ever studied economics?
You try to play psychologist when you're completely unqualified and you could wind up with a Jon Gray situation.
Some of the best coaching I did 10+ years ago was when I challenged an athlete who didn't want to be challenged at a particular moment, or held an athlete accountable when they wanted to be let off the hook. When I meet up with former athletes, that's often what they remember and appreciate and want to talk about.
But those days are gone. I'm all supportive all the time now, even when I suspect I'm doing the athlete a disservice. That's what the athletes, parents, and administrators all want. It's not the end of the world, and there are upsides to this coaching model. But it's foolish to imagine that nothing has been lost. And it's also foolish to assume that a "non-supportive" coach is the cause of a given athlete's mental health struggles.
Cash Bundren wrote:
Some of the best coaching I did 10+ years ago was when I challenged an athlete who didn't want to be challenged at a particular moment, or held an athlete accountable when they wanted to be let off the hook. When I meet up with former athletes, that's often what they remember and appreciate and want to talk about.
But those days are gone. I'm all supportive all the time now, even when I suspect I'm doing the athlete a disservice. That's what the athletes, parents, and administrators all want. It's not the end of the world, and there are upsides to this coaching model. But it's foolish to imagine that nothing has been lost. And it's also foolish to assume that a "non-supportive" coach is the cause of a given athlete's mental health struggles.
Well said truth. There is a difference between being abusive and being a fair coach that challenges athletes to be what they are truly capable of being. But that difference has been erased and most are more concerned with feeling good and being told how great they are even when they aren't, than they are about actually being the best they can be. People can still improve in this way of thinking. However most won't improve much, many won't improve at all, and only athletes with a version of the older style that hold themselves accountable will truly have a chance to reach their full potential.
To be clear, I am not advocating abuse. I am advocating common sense and understanding the difference between being challenged and told the truth, and needing to be told only positive things all the time.
Cash Bundren wrote: And it's also foolish to assume that a "non-supportive" coach is the cause of a given athlete's mental health struggles.
What? The cause of her mental health struggles??? That's just plain ridiculous and I don't think anyone said that.
She was an injured athlete, repeatedly, and went in reverse of what she ran in high school. When an athlete goes to a coach it should be an open dialogue---on both sides. If you have numerous athletes getting hurt and they are running slower than they ran in high school, it's time for the coach to realize that they are doing something wrong. That has nothing to do with an mental health issues. Hell, I went from 32:11 to sub 30 in 3 years, how did that happen? This young lady is running over 10 seconds slower for a 4 lap race?
Putting whatever anxieties and internal issues she was having aside, she still should have improved versus going in reverse. Take a look at the bios of each athlete on that school and how much they improved while running there.
Did anything ever come of this situation?
Gwen Coddle wrote:
Did anything ever come of this situation?
The coaching staff learned the importance of keeping their women "fat and happy."