50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

KPdx,

I didn't know that, so thanks for the heads up. It's moderately important to me since I turn 70 in Dec. this year. I'll see Thom Hunt and other local USATF people at an XC meet this Saturday. I'll see what additional information I can get on the meet.

Coyote Montane wrote:

I've met many of the top age group runners in the US and world over the past couple of years. You don't get a lot of recognition unless you are breaking age group records. As far as PEDs I don't think anyone I know is using them, but who knows. I'd like to see more in competition and random testing.

I suspect the use of PEDs by masters is more widespread than most people realize. The good news is that starting around the middle of last year, they have conducted drug testing at every single road event in the Grand Prix (with possibly the exception of Flint...I'm not sure about that one). So that's 5 out of 7 road events that I know of. I don't think at any of the XC races though. Usually only the top 1-2 finishers, but they have also grabbed some randoms...but still only as far back as 5th or 6th. I hope they continue this and even expand it to some randoms further back. You never used to hear about testing at these events, so I'm glad that's changing. Why do I share this info? Because the more people that know, the better. It's easy for people to cheat when there's almost zero chance of getting caught. But if more people know that they've actually been cracking down, hopefully it will make everyone re-evaluate the stuff they might be taking out of fear of being busted.

And I won't even bother getting into the discussion on shoe-doping...which is basically what I think it is.

After turning 40, Meb switched to a 9 day cycle very similar to yours. It’s interesting to see that you did it first. You are a training pioneer!

AK-67 wrote:

After turning 40, Meb switched to a 9 day cycle very similar to yours. It’s interesting to see that you did it first. You are a training pioneer!

It’s a really sensible way to go. I chose to go back to a 7-day simply so I could have two useful group activities a week, Wednesday indoor track and Sunday long run. But that means not having a third workout, and instead plugging in something like strides in a regular run, which is what I did today. I don’t miss workout #3 right now because my priority is on building volume and having Wednesday at the track. But I’m the exception in this group that way.

AK-67 wrote:

After turning 40, Meb switched to a 9 day cycle very similar to yours. It’s interesting to see that you did it first. You are a training pioneer!

I think many have worked with 9- or 10-day cycles before me. The default to 7 days is because most have rigid work schedules, weekends only for long runs, set workout days with training groups, etc.

In my 40s, I used Pfitzinger's "Road Racing for Serious Runners" as a guide to my training. His plans were based on Daniels' training paces. His once-per-week workouts pretty much alternated between VO2max repeats and LT repeats/tempo runs.

At the time, it seemed to me that training at those specific paces only every 14 days was less than ideal. When I returned to serious training a couple years ago, I decided to include BOTH types of workouts every nine days. Plus a long run and a medium-long run.

In hindsight, at 57-58, I may well have needed 14 days to fully recover/absorb the specific training effects from each workout.

I read recently that it takes 10 to 14 to fully realize the benefits of a VO2max workout, and 7 to 10 days for a threshold run. Presumably, those stats are for relatively young runners.

Now, it seems to me the ideal frequency for each type of workout would be the time it takes to fully realize the benefits of the the previous effort. That way, you're building on the gains, and not tearing down faster than you're building.

So, maybe a threshold workout every week, and a VO2max workout every other week? Of course, I am assuming the validity of Daniels-based training.

Meanwhile, here I am at 60, have only run once in two weeks, am putting on weight again, and am still dealing with near constant knee pain. I guess I've given up, but not really ... still hope to run a few miles a few times a week. We'll see.

As one of the older posters a 7-day adaptable schedule has worked well for me. If I begin to get worn down or feel niggles I simply back-off for a couple of days. I do not try to make-up workouts, instead moving on to the next planned practice when recovered. It makes more sense to me to try for consistency as opposed to pushing the fitness envelope.

Ran 4 miles yesterday for first run in 9 days. 8:30 per mile.

Ran 5 miles today, running the last two miles in 13:53 on flat terrain. Everything felt pretty good and easy.

old guy II wrote:

KPdx,

I didn't know that, so thanks for the heads up. It's moderately important to me since I turn 70 in Dec. this year. I'll see Thom Hunt and other local USATF people at an XC meet this Saturday. I'll see what additional information I can get on the meet.

I just got back from my 5k (really 3mi.) XC race. I talked briefly to one of our local USATF officers, who confirmed 2020 XC Nationals is going to be on Jan. 18 here in San Diego. They didn't have anything else to add. Thom Hunt (

) is the current USATF XC chairman, so you might want to email him for more info. The fact that he is chair and the race is going to be here is San Diego makes me suspect that there may not have been other bids for the race.

*Week 432*

Greetings, 50+ers! Ahhh! We made it through with only a few dings, so the SACS visit was a success, and I guess we'll get to survive as an institution for another 10 years. Not sure I'll still be with them, but at least it means I won't have to change jobs unless I choose to do so. Still haven't gotten back in the groove as a lot of other items got put on the back burner to get this completed, so now I'm playing catch-up on my regular job (oh, and we finished interviews for the Division Office Manager that we've been operating without.) Did actually get a couple of miles of running in on Tuesday with a couple of other 3+ mile walks but still not training.

Great to see some new "old man" PR's and some solid training and discussion (peds, shoes, etc.) hope to get more in the groove as we enter the fall (it is fall now, right? Wouldn't know it around here as we're still hitting the 90s.)

Hope you've all had good weeks. Look forward to reading about it.

All the Best!

lucKY2b, good job getting through the accreditation visit. That must be a relief. Hope you can get back into something resembling training soon.

This was planned to be a high-volume week, but every long run makes my heel too sore to run at all the next day, so I ended up running only five days of the week for a total of 63 miles.

Mon: Too sore to run after Sunday’s longish run. Spun the bike trainer 75 minutes instead and went to the gym.

Tues: 10.3 mile run

Weds: 10.5 mile run, gym.

Thurs: 10.6 mile run, gym.

Fri: 10.0 mile run, gym.

Sat: Highly motivated after watching the women’s world championship marathon the previous evening, I banged out 22.2 miles in 3:27 (4:04 marathon pace). Not very fast, but no problems and I still felt pretty good at the end, though starting to get weary. Temps in the mid-50s helped a lot. Thank goodness summer finally seems to be over!

Sun: Heel too sore to run, so got up and watched the Berlin Marathon replay. Bekele = wow! I’ll go out for an easy spin on the bike after it warms up a bit, and also hit the gym. 46 degrees at dawn today--fall has definitely arrived.

I have a half-marathon scheduled for next Sunday. I don’t intend to taper for it so it may be ugly. The main goal is the full marathon in five weeks.

Congratulations lucKY2b on your SAC visit. Perhaps a more relaxed schedule will freeze up some running time.

Speaking of freeze, our first freeze warning of the year, so looks like heavier running gear in the morning next week. I upped my volume this week to 45 Igy miles with three doubles, shooting for four doubles next week. The additional work didn’t hurt my Saturday race, an advertised 5k that turned out to be 2.89 miles on my Garmin. The course had one significant hill at a little past a mile, and finished with a similar downhill with a half mile to go. I ran 23:46 which worked out to 8:14 a mile, so an improvement on previous efforts the past year. Running 8:00 pace comfortably on the flats, hills still cutting my stride, but less so. Finished third in my AG significantly behind two nationally ranked gentlemen, but closing the gap. My week:

Monday: AM- 8 miles in the foothills with 8 x 400m hills @ interval pace; PM- 3 mile walk

Tuesday: AM- 60:00 spin bike; core; 3 sets weights; PM- 1,000m swim

Wednesday: AM- 2 miles E; 2,400m tempo @ 13:49 / 1:00 rest; 2,000m tempo @ 11:20 / 1:00 rest; 1,600m tempo @ 8:46; mile E; PM- 3 mile walk

Thursday: 60:00 spin; core; one set weights

Friday: mile walk

Saturday: 800m walk; 2 mile easy; 4 x 100m stride / 20m walk; 800m easy; 4 strides; Fit One 5k 23:46; 1.5 miles cool-down

Have a good week.

Igy

Nice job Igy.

Amkelley your volume always impresses me. It's always longer than I ever do but inviting to try and go longer for the value of what you get out if it. Case in point I went 1hr 45m yesterday. Crazy for me. So thx.

13 days from toeing the 5k XC Nats in San Diego. Hay is nearly in the barn highlighted by 8 miracle-healthy weeks of training and racing, my AmKelley LSD run yesterday, and my 4-Mile Tempo on the track Plus 1k Wed. Splits better than 2 weeks before.

6:45-6:50-6:30-6:28. Then 3:30 for 1k.

See some of y'all in SoCal.

Only managed 20 pitiful old man miles this past week , largely due to a much needed cortisone injection between the navicular and cuneiform this past Tuesday...that being said, am still at it and even crested the 111,000 lifetime 'mile'stone yesterday...next stop 111,111.

Good luck to those prepping for the upcoming USATF National 5K Cross Country Championships...looks to be a great competition down there in San Diego.

Gotta' run...literally.

your pal,

MF

lucKY: Congrats on getting through that cert.

TU: 5 easy road, hot

TH: 5 easy road, hot

SA: 5 with 3 at 7:47 pace, hot

SU: 5 semi-hard fire road with 941 feet climbing: HOT

20 monumental miles

Good week. I pushed it a little harder on SAT testing my calves. They held up fine but I really got overheated. Temps stayed in the 90’s this week. I sure will be glad when it finally cools down. I’ve had weird crampy stuff going on with both of my feet all week. Probably still not used to the “big” miles I’m running.

Have a good week folks!

You guys are getting in some good training and racing . Real nice race Igy. KPdx nice tempo . AMK the only thing between you and the sub 4 is your heel. KP said his hay is in the barn IMO so is yours. Only issue is still 5 weeks to go but I would really focus on getting that heel as healthy as possible.

Took 2 days off for no good reason then hit the treadmill for 12x400 with 4 minute walk recoveries

Alternated between 10mph at 1.5 percent grade and 8mph at 6 precent grade.

The 8at6 was harder than the 10 at 1.5. Neither were hard really with my HR just getting up near 80percent. But is was a fun workout more of a neural muscular stimulus .

Rest of the week was easy 45 minute runs in the dunes. I must be getting stronger cause I finish each run wanting to run more;) But I am gonna just keep it easy .

Surprised that I dropped another 3 pounds since giving up wheat actually feel way stronger with the weights and daily concept 2 rowing. So now I am 127 lbs. Also my blood glucose is down fasting 10pts and after eating 25pts. So low 90s and maxing out about 135 to 140 after eating a meal with lots of carbs. Insulin resistance is epidemic I could go on and on but if anyone is interested they can just google it;)

Wish that 5k race was in eugene I would be running it!

127 lbs! I'm going to look like an elephant if I get round to training with you. I'm about 5' 8 1/2 and ran my fastest times at about 148 lb (which I am after a run at the moment). I maybe can get to 145-146 given some muscle loss.

Plan to start on more distance and aerobic base has been delayed by work-pressures. A couple of good runs in last two days. Friday pushed for time so just did 4 in 28:43 - 6:53, 6:29, 7:56, 7:25. Was pretty pleased that I could push a couple of miles quite hard, and then recover with a sub 8:00.

Was just going to have a steady run yesterday (my short 5) but wore the 4% and they carried me along a bit briskly for 4.6 in 32:21 with splits of 7:05, 7:05, 7:01, 6:54 and 4:16 (7:08 pace). Felt pretty comfortable, just a bit of leg fatigue in the last 0.6 after running hard the previous day. Don't feel any negative effects from the two fairly hard days back-to-back, although I haven't done a run yet.

Ankle is still a bit 'flappy' when I get down to 6:30 pace - forefoot striking on on foot, heel-striking on the other - and I've probably got close to maxing out how much I can improve on a diet of nothing but 4 or 5 mile runs at steady or a bit quicker pace.

Feel like I've got really good strength at paces somewhere around LT or a bit quicker - I was doing an LT at 6:50 per mile for 3 on the track before the ankle injury, and now I've average 6:56 for 4.6 on road, which is probably stronger.

Ankle is going to make speed-work a waste of time at the moment, so since I don't have any serious mid-term goals, if I can persuade myself to slow down and start building distance for a few months while the ankle gets stronger (I hope) maybe I can get back somewhere reasonable next spring/summer. Off what I ran at 56, I should be around 19 minutes for 5k at this age and at the moment I think about 20:30/20:40 would be the limit (too much biomechanical inefficiency from ankle to go much quicker) so a long way to go.

I had a good week capped with a good 5K (2.99mi on GPS) XC race yesterday and a run and a bike ride today. 37 miles for the week. I started the week at very easy effort to get some freshness in my legs for the race. I ran 6:55/mi pace for the race. I now have run this race 4 years in a row. My fastest effort was 6:51/mi. and my slowest was this one at 6:55/mi. I'm very happy with that level of consistency on the course. Now I need to get in 2 weeks of good running before the 5K XC championships. My week was -

M- 7mi walk with strides every 1/2 mi.

T- 6mi of 3mi walk and 3mi run 13:39/mi. ave

W- 7mi walk with strides every 1/2 mi.

Th- rest

F- 4mi walk with strides every 1/2 mi.

S- 7mi of 2mi w.u, 3mi XC race, 2mi w.d.

Su- 6mi trails with my son 8:38/mi. ave and 13.5mi bike ride home at 12.5mph ave.

Good running to all!

Hi?

Hope it is ok to write in here although I am only 47.

I am going to focus on 800-1500-3000 and 5000 m distances. Right now I am coming back from an injury, but have been cycling to work, 2x12 km. Just started running again, after almost a year with little running. The cycling have helped a lot on my shape, think I can run a 5k in 21 minutes

The long term goal is a 1500 meter in sub 5 min, and a 5 k in 18:30 next summer or fall

1: what kind of training Should I focus on here in the winter ?

2: I have JD running Formular 3. Are they ok or are they too hard for old folks ?

3: planning on using a 9 day training cycle. Have any of you some experience with that ?

4: any tips or advice is greatly appreciated ?

Kind regards

Christian

I used Jack Daniels in my mid to late 50s and thought it worked well. Adapted to a more flexible approach as I close in on 70. I do incorporate his estimates for VO2 max for pacing purposes and adjust my loading to touch on his identified training modalities.