50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

dhaaga: Congrats on toeing the line even sick. Rough stuff.

TU: 5 easy in neighborhood

TH: 5 easy in cemetery (yelled at by teenagers)

SA: 5 with 3 at 9:20ish pace (buzzed by a biker)

SU: 5 easy

20 massive miles this week!

This must have been “harass the old guy week”. On Thursday in my quiet cemetery I hear screaming and see at a distance about 4 teenagers walking home from band practice. I ignore them and they scream even more, yelling “Don’t you ignore us!”.

Then Sat during my ‘speed session’ I’m buzzed by a guy on a bike who literally clipped my shirtsleeve without a word. I was in full ‘grumpy old man’ mode when he looped back, I uncharacteristically yelled at him with my “dad voice” to call out when he passes.

On the 4% shoe issue I downloaded the IAAF’s rule’s, amendments and updates. The rule in question is 143. In March of 2017 the IAAF said…“Because of this speculation and the increased interest in the development in this area the IAAF is going to discuss shoe approval processes as defined by the competition rules as part of the agenda at the IAAF Technical Committee in two weeks’ time in Zaragoza, Spain, to see if we need to change or review approvals.”

I cannot find any documentation that they did this and there have been no changes to rule 143 in the last 2 years. I mean all they said they would do is discuss it.

Technical Committee Member 1: “We are supposed to discuss the shoe approval process”.

Technical Committee Member 2: “OK, we are discussing it now.”

Technical Committee Chair: “We are adjourned. Drinks at Mostaza or Artigas?”

There is no way they could ban this shoe now after 3 years of being “out there”, first as a shoe that was not available to the public and now as it’s been totally released to the public. They would have to invalidate hundreds or local, national, and international records…oh and what were the Gold and Bronze medalists in the Rio Marathon wearing? Yep, no way they could take those medals away now.

This inaction, however, has given the green-light to the R&D departments of every shoe manufacturer to take carbon plate tech farther. The R&D folks now realize the IAAF has tied itself in knots and left an opening that will surely be exploited. Carbon plates for all!

As Kramer on Seinfeld said so well…” The cat…aaaaaaaa….is out of the bag…”

Have a good week folks!

Wow, this thread has gotten so lively there’s no way I can keep up.

Old Fat n Stoopid, I enjoyed reading your posts and I wish you the best in your upcoming marathon!

Dave Waddles, welcome back and I wish you the best on Oct. 6 also.

ex-D1 er, all I can say is holy cow—I cannot imagine 41 miles over those conditions.

maurits and MikeF, thanks for the suggestion. I have never bought anything on ebay but my husband occasionally buys cycling stuff there and has had good experiences. I’ll take a look.

dhaaga, I don’t know about the racing when sick thing. I always bail on races when sick, even if it seems to be just a head cold. I don’t necessarily quit training altogether, and if you have the discipline to treat a race as a training run that’s probably fine. Even at my age I still get too excited when I put on a number and line up at the start.

This week my attempt to train properly for a marathon in 8 weeks came crashing up against my body’s limitations and the rest of life. 8 days ago I had run a pretty good 17.3 miles, and then had to take the next day off to let my heel calm down. I had planned a semi-long run on Labor Day because I would have lots of time, but for no good reason I felt extremely tired on Sunday and slept an hour later than usual Monday morning. I was too tired and it was too hot for me to start a long run, so I punted completely and just went for a bike ride. I continued to feel dragged down on my runs Tues through Thurs. By Friday I felt better and would have done a long run on Saturday (yesterday), but I’d already planned to go hiking with my husband. We did 9 miles with 2000 feet of climbing. It wasn’t a long hike and the pace didn’t feel hard, but hiking at elevation always leaves me dehydrated no matter how much I try to drink, and all the up and down really irritated my heel.

I drank like a fish yesterday evening but woke up multiple times to pee last night and woke up this morning to find my ring sliding around on my finger more than usual, a sure sign of being dehydrated. But it was the first morning below 60 degrees in a long time and I couldn’t let that go to waste, so set off for the same 17.3 mile run as 8 days ago. I went easy and took 6 minutes longer to run it today, but everything felt great. When I got home I weighed 110.4, the lowest I’ve seen in about 12 years. I was very dehydrated and it’s a good thing I didn’t try to go hard, because it would have failed. I did get in the distance I’d wanted and finished feeling happy with the week, just under 60 miles in 5 days of running.

Looking forward to the first full day of NFL football…

Chomping at the bit to comment on shoes but will honor my non-compete with a brand I served for 27 years. Come March 2020 maybe I'll have some fun adding commentary on "running shoes for masters" after 35 years creating the product in the footwear industry.

Meanwhile, ongoing day by day attempting to be healthy and in-shape for USATF 5k XC Nats in San Diego. Nervous as a cat in a room full of rockers on whether I survive this past week as I had a lot of volume-for-me and 3 challenging runs/workouts...

51 mile week

10 Miler with 3 in the middle at 7:45-7:35-7:25

Track Session 5x 1000m with 2min rest at 3:46-3:45-3:42-3:39-3:35

5k XC with mudpit and 2 river crossings at 20:50

Go Falcons!

Cavorty wrote:

Sounds Good.

I'd say in two weeks time I'd maybe able to see if I could hang with your LT or Cape Mountain run.

Sub 14 a 41 mile race seems fitting , congrates, and thanks for posting your race result and checked out the race web site . It would take me a week to run that race;)

Old Farte interesting to follow your calf rehab

MF forget the pace just having the desire and fire to race that feeling of hard effort is something we all relate.

IGY and OG2 Carlsbad has always been on my wanna list maybe when I hit 65 in two years.

AMK glad it all worked out I think lsd is really a lot ezr on the body weather dehydration fatigue sickness running slow seems to be the way to go

Dhaaga good idea will remember adapt race and effort to conditions including when you are coming off illness nice finish.

KP glad to see you fired up!

My week:

40 minutes a day most on sand barefoot most pretty easy

Long run / walk 5 min alternating for 2 hours then 3.5 miles at 9 min a mile

Tempo hard 23 minute hilly barefoot sand dunes

Mile 5:53.27 ouch that hurt!

Race Goals for this year:

Sub 6 mile Done time trail on track

Sub 19 5k Target Feb Couples Classic

Sub 19 5000 Either Hayward Classic or time trail or ?

Maybe a 1500 or 2

Olde Farte wrote:

Nine weeks post calf heart attack and I am on the verge of being completely back (knock on wood). I have continued the walk/jog routine with gradually increasing volume. Today’s session was the best yet with 1’/5’ + 1’/10’ + 1’/12’ + 1’/15’. Pace is good and endurance is returning. The hope is to do 2x(1’/20’) on Tuesday then a 30’ CR on Thursday. I am continuing the ice/heat/massage therapy and have reintroduced some body weight exercises. Life is good.

Best to most.

Good to hear. It took me 15 weeks after mine this year to climb back to 100% healthy- those thing just seem to linger.

Pretty simple week for a simple-minded runner here.

M - 75 minutes with a 10K race (88.2% age grade, mentioned it earlier in the week)

T - 46 minutes easy recovery

W - 54 minutes easy recovery

Th - 1:00 fairly easy on bike path

F - 1:00 on trails up to 6200'

Sa - 75 minutes with 20 minute tempo, pace spot on with 10K race early in the week. Did 11:00 of it on the track and then peeled off on a flat section of road. Good weather, and decent workout.

Su - 1:50 on a mountain road (elev. 8400' to 9000'), I think some of the tinmen were there

So a hair over 8:00, and 59 miles. The first mile of almost every run is at about 9:00-9:30, then I can get rolling a bit better.

Charlie wrote:

Cavorty wrote:

Sounds Good.

I'd say in two weeks time I'd maybe able to see if I could hang with your LT or Cape Mountain run.

Sub 14 a 41 mile race seems fitting , congrates, and thanks for posting your race result and checked out the race web site . It would take me a week to run that race;)

Oops, yeah I forgot to post the link:

What I find particularly surprising is that in 3 of the 4 starts, I arrived at the Aspen Mt aid station (35-36ish miles) within 3 minutes of each other, and twice it was exactly the same (could almost argue the 2016 split was roughly the same as well as I had spent more time at aid stations along the way). All this across a mountain jeep road/trail course with stream crossings, multiple climbs over 12k passes, and variable weather, without a GPS/pacing watch or anything - just running (and sometimes power-hiking). Crazy.

But that was last week, this week I wussed out on the Devil on the Divide 50K (or 22k) much closer to Denver that I had run every year starting in 2015, even though it's only one week after GT, instead opting for the Ned Ned 10k. Legs were fine, energy level a little off, but still managed 5th (OA) in a "blazing" 48:06 (re: rolling hills @ 8200+', winner was 40:20).

A good week of hamstring healing and improving fitness for me. 41 running miles plus 20 miles on my mountain bike (with road tires) for my first serious ride in about 15 years.

M- 7mi walk with strides every 1/2 mi

T- 4mi hills 9:36/mi

W- 7mi walk with strides every 1/2 mi

Th- 8mi hills 9:41/mi

F- 7mi walk with strides every 1/2 mi

S- 8mi hills 8:51/mi

Su- 20mi bike 13.1 mph

For KPdx and any others coming to the Masters 5k XC, the course is mostly flat park grass with couple of little rollers that go up and down about 15 feet. There is some off-camber stuff by the water and the gophers had pretty much taken over last time I ran the course. The big factor though is that on most of the course the thatch on the grass is so thick that you get almost no rebound on your stride. Do your strength work for this one and don't expect a fast time. Please come by the Jamul Toads tent and say hello (and get a glass of home-brewed refreshment if you like).

Finally, most importantly to me, my new granddaughter arrived on Friday morning, about two weeks late, 8lbs 9oz. Mom and baby are doing fine, but a rough go for mom who was induced Wed. PM and, after about 27hrs of labor, ended up with a C-section. I'm pretty sure my son is going to be out for our usual Saturday run next week.

As usual, congratulations to everyone who laced them up and raced!

Congratulations on the granddaughter and best wishes to the parents.

*Week 430*

Greetings, 50+ers! Thanks for the birthday wishes, it was a chill day, but after that nothing much to report here. Been so busy with all the deadlines and meetings that I'm barely keeping my head above water. It should get better before the end of the month after the SACS review, but it's been a rough start; doesn't help that we're still operating without a division office manager. Speaking of which, I chair that committee, too. Which we'll start doing interviews next week to add to the unmanageable pile.

Judging by the number of pages I've yet to read, looks like a lot of good activity. I do know that semi-regular poster "Reno" managed a 5:09 road mile the other day, so kudos to him. I'll try to catch up over the next few days (haha).

Have great week everyone!

All the Best!

PS-My nephew won his first ever HS XC race. He's a junior running for a smaller catholic school; clocked a 16:03 5k in his opening meet. We're excited!

Lots to keep up with this week! Too much for me with school in full swing. My condolences to you lucKY on the SACS review. I'm retiring before I have to go through that again. I was supposed to be racing in Myrtle Beach today but Dorian resulted in a change of plans.

It sounds as if many of us are healing for fall racing. Take care of that heel Amkelley. We're all pulling for you for your fall race. I finally made it on the track for a fartlek this week where I was able to run 2 x mile @ 7:45. It felt great to push a little without my hip or hamstring complaining.

I made it through 35 mi plus cross training in preparation for an Olympic distance tri in 3 weeks. I'm not sure if it's the cooler mornings or I'm finally getting back in shape but my runs are feeling much easier. My week:

Sun: 1:28 biking, 2000yds swim

Mon: 5.2mi easy, 1:34 biking

Tue: 6.1mi easy, 2400yds swim

Wed: 8.0 fartlek

Thu: 1:05 biking

Fri: 6.3mi easy

Sat 10.1 easy, 2625 swim

Welcome to our new/returning posters!

Hey there - you chimed in on a few threads I had started over the past couple of years...

11 minute miles? I think I read at some point that you had gotten injured - what happened?

By coincidence, I just did my first run today after coming off injury (over three months off) and did 4.1 miles at a 10:59 pace...was actually happy with that for a first run back. Sore all over but the worst part is my hip/gluteus medium/or whatever it is still doesn't feel that great...but we'll see.

Thanks to everyone who replied about races. I want to go to Carlsbad so bad. I did sign up for the Billy Mills 10K at Haskell Indian Nations University in November. Billy Mills gives you your medal!

Are we all avoiding doubles for the most part? Occasionally a double pops up on someone's log but it seems masters steer clear of them. If that's out, then 7-day running seems my only option if I'm to get my mileage up.

My impaled ankle still makes me go "ow" but only when going downstairs, doing ankle rolls, or running on grass. No signs of lockjaw...

52.3 miles thusly:

Mon 5.7mi recovery

Tue 7.5mi easy

Wed 16 x 200 at 38s (my VDOT for speed is 3 points higher than my VDOT for distance)

Th 5mi recovery

Fr 7.5mi easy

Sa 6.7mi easy

Su 12.9mi with 3 x 2mi at MP (6:45)

M60 -- 5'11" 170 lbs

M55-59 PRs --- 18:58, 3:07:23 (age 58)

Sept 2-8, 2019

M- Off

Tu- 7.7 miles @ 9:26/mi

W- 6.2 miles @ 11:04/mi; Bike 14.6 easy

Th- Bike 14.6 miles @ 18.9 mph

Fr- Bike 14.6 miles @ 20.7 mph

Sa- Off

Su- 4.0 miles @ 8:38/mi

TOTAL: 17.9 MILES

Well, RF Reader was right. It's really difficult to transform into a non-runner. I even found myself scrolling through the local race calendar a couple days ago!

My tendons are constantly irritated, inflamed and painful, whether I run or not. So, I might as well run at least a llittle. I'm trying to come up with a moderate plan that would maintain basic fitness, manage my weight, and allow me to at least participate in an occasional race.

A friend of mine is 51, and a former 15-minute 5K guy. He still enjoys racing, and it doesn't bother him to no longer be competitive. He trains only 3 miles a day, six days a week, 8-minute miles. He runs no workouts except an occasional 5000m track time trial. He sets goals for races, same as always, but now it's "breaking 20:15," not "top three" or "age group winner."

Last year I didn't get it. "John," I'd say, "if you trained, you could be killin' it at M50-54!" Now I can sort of understand. He had dealt with some injuries, and simply wasn't motivated to push it anymore.

Anyway, I think I'll pay closer attention to how many of you folks are dealing with modified training approaches.

Although it wasn't the case this year, in the past I could run very little, then ramp it up for a few weeks and compete reasonably well.

Four years ago, I was running a 4.6-mile loop just once a week, at about 7:45-8:00 pace. I did that for a year, then for only five weeks, I bumped that to 7 miles twice a week and raced 8K at 6:46 pace. Not good enough to place, but at age 56, I was happy -- a quite surprised -- with that. I hadn't race at all in many years.

Following that 8K, I continued running twice a week, 4 to 7 miles, for five months. Then for four months, I increased one of the runs to 12 miles most weeks, averaging 15 mpw. Then foronly six weeks I added long runs (18-23 miles), tapered for two weeks, and raced a 3:25 marathon. Again, not good enough to age-group place, but at age 57, I was very happy with that!

I was hoping for something similar this year, but I just couldn't get back to form. Training through the pain was difficult, and most of my runs were very slow. Igy mentioned "pace lock," and I think all my 10- and 11-minute miles weren't helping. This morning I ran only 4 miles, but at under 9-minute pace, which is "fast" these days. I think I'll continue with "shorter and faster" for a while. Two or three times a week. Rest or bike the other days. Maybe?

Have a great week!

KCgeezer wrote:

Thanks to everyone who replied about races. I want to go to Carlsbad so bad. I did sign up for the Billy Mills 10K at Haskell Indian Nations University in November. Billy Mills gives you your medal!

Are we all avoiding doubles for the most part? Occasionally a double pops up on someone's log but it seems masters steer clear of them. If that's out, then 7-day running seems my only option if I'm to get my mileage up.

My impaled ankle still makes me go "ow" but only when going downstairs, doing ankle rolls, or running on grass. No signs of lockjaw...

52.3 miles thusly:

Mon 5.7mi recovery

Tue 7.5mi easy

Wed 16 x 200 at 38s (my VDOT for speed is 3 points higher than my VDOT for distance)

Th 5mi recovery

Fr 7.5mi easy

Sa 6.7mi easy

Su 12.9mi with 3 x 2mi at MP (6:45)

KCgeezer,

When I coached at Barton County Community College we would go up to then Haskell Indian JC. The Haskell team would show up in war paint for the race. Tough runners.

Igy

BLtheKid wrote:

11 minute miles? I think I read at some point that you had gotten injured - what happened?

By coincidence, I just did my first run today after coming off injury (over three months off) and did 4.1 miles at a 10:59 pace...was actually happy with that for a first run back. Sore all over but the worst part is my hip/gluteus medium/or whatever it is still doesn't feel that great...but we'll see.

Bone spur on my petalla (probably both, x-ray was just one knee), tendinitis, calcification of the tendon. For a couple years, I thought it was just tendinitis -- runners knee. But 11 months ago I fell hard on my knee, which really pushed things over the edge. Just haven't been able to get past it since then, or to train appropriately. Surgery is the only cure, and I'm not willing to go that route yet.

Wishing better for you! In 2018 I successfully came back from a three-month layoff. I had a few good races, flirting again with "national class" age-group performances. Sometimes, I think, some time off isn't such a bad thing.

old guy II wrote:

Finally, most importantly to me, my new granddaughter arrived on Friday morning, about two weeks late, 8lbs 9oz. Mom and baby are doing fine, but a rough go for mom who was induced Wed. PM and, after about 27hrs of labor, ended up with a C-section. I'm pretty sure my son is going to be out for our usual Saturday run next week.

Congratulations! Today is National Grandparents Day, BTW. Glad to hear all are doing well after a rough ordeal. My wife flew from NY to L.A. yesterday to see her new granddaughter, born a couple weeks ago. Emergency C-section ... full term, but only 5 lb 2 oz. Meanwhile, my second grandson was born a day-and-a-half later ... 9 lbs 6 oz. It's raining babies!

Congratulations to you Allen1959 as well. Grandchildren are pretty wonderful. As someone said to me, all the fun of children without the responsibility :>) For everyone interested in the Carlsbad 5k, this year Meb was just past the finish line congratulating all of us individually on our race efforts. One of my team mates took this. https://imgur.com/c7UzCV6

KCgeezer wrote:

Thanks to everyone who replied about races. I want to go to Carlsbad so bad. I did sign up for the Billy Mills 10K at Haskell Indian Nations University in November. Billy Mills gives you your medal!

Are we all avoiding doubles for the most part? Occasionally a double pops up on someone's log but it seems masters steer clear of them. If that's out, then 7-day running seems my only option if I'm to get my mileage up.

I haven't traveled beyond reasonable driving distance to run a race since my competitive open days more than 25 years ago. I think Carlsbad is something like a 6+ hour drive if you don't hit terribly bad traffic. Or I can drive 70 minutes to the airport, fly to San Diego, and figure out how to get from there to Carlsbad. I could not be nationally competitive in F60-64 but it's still kind of tempting just once to travel to a big race with a strong masters field, just for the heck of it. I'll look at my calendar...

Even in my early 30s I rarely ran doubles. When at my best in the marathon I was training 75-90 mpw with a maximum of one double per week. It just seemed to make little sense to break my mileage up into shorter segments when training for a marathon. Now I never, ever double, but all through my 40s and 50s I usually ran 7 days a week except when injured or ill. Now (age 61) I find myself running more like 5-6 days per week, but still getting 50+ miles most weeks. Although I now seem to suck at the marathon, I can still run decent half-marathons and I still see no point in doing multiple shorter runs. Furthermore, first thing in the morning is usually the only time I (a) have time and (b) won't puke because I've eaten too recently.