50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

dhaaga wrote:

yes i've run the DC Road Runners club 4-mile age-handicapped race on 4th of July a few times -- i won once [i think when i was in 45-49 AG], which got me first pick of the random prizes the race director brings -- lots of pressure as you look them over and people hover behind whispering "don't take the pie......leave the 6-pack for me......"

that race is back and forth on towpath with two 180 turns, so you can monitor progress. Very fun format -- you're chasing down older runners and feel as though you're doing great, then at a turnaround realize "the young people are gaining on me. hurry up!".

good luck and have fun with it,

Dave

Thanks Mike and dhaaga - Mike: I will be ready to run. dhaaga: I try to never look back (my thought is there is nothing behind me that is going to help me run faster - and if someone is behind you they may think it is a sign of weakness - haha!)

One more easy run on Sunday morning...Just easing back a touch yesterday and today is getting me antsy....

*Week 429*

Salutations, 50+ers! First off, thanks for the condolences....still shocked by it all. Second, finally got around to skimming through the thread this morning; nose has been to the grindstone all week. Thanks, Pete, for chiming in with additional perspective on your podiumrunner article; I always appreciate your contributions. Lots of other interesting stuff that I don't have time to digest right now. Allen59, I see where you're coming from, I hope that it's a temporary phase; and congrats on the new grandchild. And lastly, today I turn 60, so the 50's will go out with a whimper...little running, over-committed on time, many ancillary distractions, but that doesn't mean I'm out....just is going to take some adjustments. Nothing much to report, got a couple of good walks and a walk/run session in, so incrementally better than last week, but still meager.

Hope you all have had better weeks. I shall continue to try and get back on track....

All the Best!

Now 8 weeks since the calf issue developed and progress continues to be made slowly but surely. The walk/jog routine has progressed to sessions of 40 minutes including 2’ jog with 1’ walking. My non-running schedule this week forced me to take two consecutive days off which probably was a good thing. Also yesterday I reverted to the high heels from the mid heels with positive results. Maybe this week I’ll try some more 3’ jogging bouts (hopefully the results will be better than the last time). Optimistically anxious.

Happy September. Best to most!

SoCal Pete wrote:

And I'm SO grateful to be back in the actually-running community. I'm might get up out of my chair in a few seconds, pull a hamstring, and be out for the fall. But until something like that happens, like all of us, I can dream of great workouts and races to come.

Hey Pete, your commentary reminds me of the Steve Jones quote about how we're all "just a hamstring away from oblivion"...was good trading lies and drinking beers with you and Cush at RRU last month...cheers.

I managed 30 miles of mostly slogging (slow jogging) this past week...did run a solid 6 mile progression run on the local high school track yesterday...needed 6 in order to hit precisely 110,900 lifetime...I also like arcane baseball stats ;}

Wishing everybody a relaxing Labor Day long weekend.

Gotta' run...literally.

your pal,

MF

Happy LucKY2b Day! Awesome to hit the new 60 AG. I hope it shall be nothing but enjoyment for you.

Pete, old friend, it’s always good to read into your writing. Thank you for your generous contributions.

I’m having more and more FUN running. And happy to overcome another heart-attack-of-the-calf injury to quickly enjoy a few races in the past 3 weeks...

Bridge Of The God’s 5k with a surprising 19:13 performance and embarrassing overall win at age 59.

Highlands Twilight 5k with an ugly 21:15 hilly humid and 4000ft altitude snack down to commence a 7-Day Hillbilly Road Trip with college roommate (App State) and 28 PUBs across the Blue Ridge Mtns to Lake Gaston Va. loved re-running our old ASU Home-Course 10k at Moses Cone Park. First 1.25 miles of that one-loop course at 4000ft was all uphill!

Night Meet 3k back here in Oregon with a 11:15 that felt really good with an attempt to outkick a middle school kid in front of all 192 of the high school kids I coach. Yep big team. Yep the kid won. Yep I loved it.

Next Up = High School CC Relays Open Mile, High School Ultimook 5k Open Race with a mud pit. USATF Masters Nationals XC 5k In San Diego.

I’ll say it again. I’m having more and more FUN running and racing. May we all.

KP

Yo LucKY2B, HBD young man...how does it feel to join the sexagenarian set??

M60 -- 5'11" 169 lbs

Open PRs ---- 16:04, 2:40:30 (age 23)

Masters PRs -- 17:10, 2:56:03 (age 43)

M55-59 PRs --- 18:58, 3:07:23 (age 58)

Aug 26 - Sept 1, 2019

M- Off

Tu- 4.0 miles @ 10:02/mi

W- 2 x 20 minutes elliptical

Th- Off

Fr- 5K race 21:07 (6:43, 6:54, 6:46, :42)

Sa- Off

Su- Off

TOTAL: 8.1 MILES

Friday's race went about as well as I could expect. I figured I would be about 2 minutes slower than a year ago, and that was about right -- 21:07 vs 19:13 last year.

That's not how I had long envisioned my debut at M60-64. My 5K pace is now what I had hoped marathon pace would be this fall! But it was good for third in the age group, out of 24.

Fourth place was only two seconds behind. I had passed him at the 3-mile mark, not knowing his age and not expecting we were racing for the bronze at that pedestrian pace, ha! Still, I had to muster a dry-heave inducing sprint to better him on the home stretch.

For a relatively small race -- fewer than 400 finishers -- it was pretty competitive. 11 under 16:00, 27 under 17:00. The M45 winner ran 15:55, M50 ran 16:57, M55 ran 17:04, M60 ran 18:44. The W50 winner ran 19:09! She also had a stellar result at the Flint Mile a week or so ago.

My plan is to walk away from competition for now, just try to stay fit and control my weight. I'm finally back under 170 after ballooning to 184 during my most recent layoff. Meanwhile, I'll look into the pros and cons of a surgical solution to my knee woes.

lucKY -- Welcome to the M60-64 group!

KP -- Congrats on the OA win. I had one of those last year, yeah a little embarrassing at 19+ minutes, but still kinda fun!

Happy trails! Have a great week.

Good morning. Interesting week for me, and my highest total volume (approximately 45 miles) in 2019. A byproduct of my activity was tipping the scales at 170 lbs. Well, I’ll try to make this concise. Monday and Tuesday I did three sessions of a foothill run, walk, spin bike, core, and weight training. I planned to take a short backpacking trip with my son of about 12 total miles over two days. One of my running buddies decided to join us, and after some discussion we decided to make it an epic trip.

We decided to tackle the Queens River Loop a 32 mile trip thru the Sawtooth Wilderness. Here is a link for a backpacking trip made by another group several years ago:

https://hikecamphike.wordpress.com/2015/08/08/queens-river-loop-sawtooth-wilderness-idaho/

I am glad I was able to accomplish this over the 72 hours Wednesday thru Saturday. The trail is not well maintained and strewn with deadfall, brush, scree and branches. We lost the trail a couple of times even though we had GPS locators with topographical maps. There was one section of heavy brush we moved at a pace of no more than a 1/2 mile an hour. That was Thursday afternoon and with still another 20 miles to go. I seriously doubted the wisdom of this challenge, but with a Goo and another push we were thru the worst part of the trail. The trailhead head was 5,500 feet and the high point 9,200, with one trip down from 8,400 feet to 7,200 feet, then back up to 9,200 feet. It was wilderness, we did not see another soul for two days. I was still a bit dehydrated even after a beer and a high calorie meal at Trudy’s (an Idaho City iconic greasy spoon). A thorough scrubbing of trail dust and brush scratches left me tired, but glad to be home watching Boise State defeat Florida State (on replay).

Hopefully I will be recovered enough to do a hard morning workout with my running friends Labor Day morning. Today my wife is cooking a big breakfast, then I’ll mow my lawn, watch the Berlin track meet on replay. Good to be home.

Igy

Wow!...that's an impressive time given your age and weight! I wonder how many sixty year olds at 169 lbs can run 21:07? (I'm 59 and 170, and run around 25 minutes on a relatively flat course - a whole 4 minutes behind you!).

What I've learned about distance running over decades of running myself is you have to be very light and thin to be competitive and run fast times (i.e., "built for running"). This is even more imperative as we get older and degenerative changes start occurring to the musculoskeletal system from a high-impact activity like running.

Recreational/fitness running with low mileage training is different and you can probably be a little heavier and do fine with it getting a lot of health benefits. But competitive running is whole different ballgame - thin and lightweight is the name of the game...nothing new there.

Igy -- Awesome and epic adventure! And big mileage, too. Nice week. Also, congrats on the health report a couple weeks back. Great news.

Question for folks here. I was chatting with the M60-64 winner after Friday's 5K. He had worn brand new Nike Vaporflies, and said they were unbelievable. He felt they made a 20-second difference. Particularly for older runners who really feel the impact of each footfall, he thinks the benefit of the cushioned ride was huge. A couple others cited the same 15-20 second improvement with the Vapor flies in the same race. Anyone experience the same?

Allen1959 wrote:

Question for folks here. I was chatting with the M60-64 winner after Friday's 5K. He had worn brand new Nike Vaporflies, and said they were unbelievable. He felt they made a 20-second difference. Particularly for older runners who really feel the impact of each footfall, he thinks the benefit of the cushioned ride was huge. A couple others cited the same 15-20 second improvement with the Vapor flies in the same race. Anyone experience the same?

Isn't that what Kipchoge wears? ?

Happy Birthday lucKY!

Congrats on the OA win, KP! Take it!

I think the Vaporfly's should be banned. But then again, I think we should return all running to its amateur roots. Both views bring out the haters.

Tue = 4.6 miles easy

Thu = 4.8 miles easy

Sat = 4.9 miles easy

Sun = 5 miles easy

A good week of easy running. I finally made it to a whole number of miles. I have certain friends who, in the middle of me telling them the mileage, they stop me, like the fraction I’m about to udder is a profanity of the vilest nature.

Now I have a debate in my mind: be happy I successfully increased my weekly miles rather significantly (for me), or keep building the miles?

I think I’m going to hold for a while and see how I feel. It seems laughable that moving from 4 to 5 miles a run is a big deal. But it is to me. I’m thankful everything feels good, including my right calf that basically resolved on its own by making a concerted effort to completely ignore it.

Have a good week folks!

Here's my take wrote:

Wow!...that's an impressive time given your age and weight! I wonder how many sixty year olds at 169 lbs can run 21:07? (I'm 59 and 170, and run around 25 minutes on a relatively flat course - a whole 4 minutes behind you!).

Hey, I really appreciate that perspective. Many of us, I think, tend to compare ourselves only to those ahead of us. For me, it's hard to accept a 20:00 time for 5K, let alone 21+.

But it's all relative. Some old guys would plug "17:00 and 18+" into that formula.

The M60-64 winner ran 18:44. He's my height, maybe a bit lighter. I'm still carrying some belly flab, and am heavier in the thighs. The bicycling I've included generally beefs up my thighs, which certainly doesn't help my running.

When I was racing well at 58, my weight was as low as 160. You're right, it does make a difference. My wife didn't like the emaciated look, though!

Keep at it! Thanks again for the feedback.

I’m still hoping for one more shot at a sub-4 hr marathon this year on the first Sunday in November (same day as NYC). Yesterday, nine weeks and one day out, I attempted my first longish training run and banged out 17.3 miles at 3:58 marathon pace. I still felt strong at the end and this was very encouraging. That capped a 66-mile week. My heel was fairly sore this morning so I settled for an easy 32-mile bike ride to finish the week.

The discussion of running on hard vs soft surfaces has been interesting. I do the vast majority of my mileage on asphalt, with some concrete (harder) and some hard-packed dirt (softer) mixed in. I’ve never really understood the “pounding” of running on hard surfaces. I never feel like the impact of my feet on the ground is an issue, and it’s more important for me to avoid uneven surfaces where I might suffer an acute injury such as rolling an ankle from stepping on a rock or into a hole. I suppose it helps that even at low running speeds I’m very much a forefoot striker—the soles of my shoes wear entirely under the ball of the foot and underneath the big toe—and I'm under 120 pounds. I’d love to have access to smooth, softer dirt or very level, closely cropped grass as a running surface, but I don’t. Particularly since much of my running occurs in the dark, I stick to mostly asphalt roads that are decently lit.

Not Done Just Yet, good luck in your handicap race and I’ll be interested to hear your race report. I have never run such a race.

Welcome to the 60s, lucKY2b. You sound rather frazzled and overcommitted at present, but I’m sure things will settle down—just try not to sweat the small stuff.

KPdx, hey, some nice racing! An overall win is never something to be “embarrassed” about. You beat everyone who showed up. And 19:13 at age 59 is nothing to sneeze at.

Allen1959, congrats on kicking your way to third place. And I’ll say that’s a competitive race! I’m not too well calibrated on M60-64, but 11 people under 16 minutes is insane. Even small local races in the Rochester area were pretty darn competitive when I was there 30 years ago. At my best I could run low 18’s for 5K and around 37 for 10K, and those times were usually competitive in smaller races, but not usually good enough to win. In Central California now, low 18’s would be almost guaranteed to win the women’s division of any smallish 5K and would sometimes beat all of the men. It’s never been clear to me whether this difference is a function of time or of place.

Igy, your backpacking trip sounds like fun but really hard work. We also do all of our backpacking in wilderness areas but I’m a wimp about going off trail, we take only one- or two-nighters, and we live much closer to highly populated areas. I’ve never been on a hike or backpack trip when we didn’t see other people all day; we consider ourselves lucky when there’s no one else camped at our lake, which did happen one night on our most recent trip. Rest up and drink like mad before you try to do anything hard. I always find I return from backpacking trips both dehydrated and glycogen-depleted and it takes several days to recover.

Happy Labor Day to all!

happy birthday and new age group!

fun week of training for me during first week of classes:

M 1:10

Tu 1:00 with hill repeats

W 2:15 double

Th 1:10 trails -- no fall this time!

F 1:00 with 30:00 at marathon pace

Sa 1:00

Su 1:20 + an hour kayaking

long run planned tomorrow to celebrate Labor Day, then easy week leading into half-marathon Sunday. Hope everyone is enjoying the long weekend,

Dave

Allen1959 and amkelley,

Thanks. Interestingly, the gentleman that went with my son and I was the endocrinologist who diagnosed me. He is both an avid runner and backpacker. I felt a sense of comfort having him along on the trip if things did not go well. I still suffer quite a bit of self-doubt concerning my physical condition, even though in some ways I feel better than before my treatment. Thursday afternoon we were climbing a southern facing ridge working our way through sage brush 4-6 feet high. This brought on a period of extreme fatigue and accompanying questioning “should I really be doing this?” The previous evening we made camp at 8:00 pm, and this day 30 minutes later. Wednesday I could only manage a Pop Tart before bed; Thursday a freeze dried Mountain House meal and then bed. A month of backpacking in similar fashion would get me to racing weight. Naw, I’ll pass until next year.

Igy

Looks like everyone who posted thus far this week had a good week.

Bottom line on aging to age well you will lose elasticity as some point so ya gotta work on your mental flexibility. Mentibility?

Week 7 but really week what ever as I am gonna quit counting em.

Did 2 hard ones and the rest easy took some days off experimenting watched a bunch of Jack Daniels videos still really good stuff.

Thinking about getting in a sub 6 for 63

Here is a funny video on elasticity. WAG The more ya got the more ya like hard surfaces

https://youtu.be/ndGUNOfS3t0

A lot to catch up on here! Don't know if I can keep up. Hi SCalP, good to hear you're coming back. Congrats on the W KP, that's a lot of racing! Good 5K. good luck with marathon training amk, yeesh, I'm only good for those about once every 2 or 3 years. Happy bd L2ky and welcome to the club! Nice outing Igy.

notdone, I've done a couple handicap races and road relays and yes they are similar. Pacing is a good thing with those. In the handicap races that I have done I didn't fare so well for whatever reason.

So 51 miles on the week, planned cutback on the weekend because I'm racing 10K tomorrow but had an unplanned day off on Wednesday, primarily due to work stress. I am so ready to be done with it. Had planned to work through 65 but I don't think that's going to happen, definitely not with this situation. So looking at options including new job or retirement with a side gig for a number of years.

Did a longish tempo (33 minutes) on Tuesday and fartlek on Thursday (4X 2:40 or so). No long run. Tomorrow's race in only one of two bigger races than I'm doing in Colorado this year, the other being Bolder Boulder. Hoping to have a good block starting next week to get ready for 15K in Oct, HM in Nov. and Club XC in Dec.

lucKY, happy birthday and move to a new age group. I skipped checking in last week because my older son was here from New Zealand for a week for business. I had a great week of family time and bad training decisions. On last Saturday and again last Sunday I got to do my absolute favorite activity, hammer out an hour of hard trail running with my two sons. Their comfortable threshold pace is about my 90+% race effort pace. I knew that running that hard two days in a row would put me in a training hole for at last a week, but it was worth it for the all too infrequent opportunity for us to run together. I compounded that on Wednesday morning, my son's last day here, with starting a run with him early in the morning that launched right in to about 7:45/mi pace. Soon after about a mile my hamstring started to tighten up and get sore. I shut it down for a couple of hundred yards and then went to an easy, short, choppy stride run for the rest of 4 miles. My hamstring did not feel too bad by the end of the run. Thursday I rested and Friday I walked 7 miles with an easy stride every 1/2 mile.

That brought me to yesterday morning's 4 mile XC race, the first this season for me. I warmed up thoroughly but could tell my hamstring was marginal. I started the race and ran the first fairly flat mile conservatively in 7:04, There is a big steep downhill early in the 2nd mile. My hamstring did not like that at all and I had to back way off while I tried to decide if my hamstring was settling down after the downhill or if I needed to drop out. Before the end of the second mile I felt like my hamstring was doing a little better on the flatter rolling section of the trail (and I felt really good aerobically from slowing down), so I picked it up on the big uphill at the end of the second mile and tried to focus on keeping a quicker turnover and shorter stride. The last two miles I picked it and ran good race pace to finish at 30:38, which was 50 seconds slower than my time last year. My splits were 7:04, 8:10, 7:31, 7:52 versus 2018 when they were 6:48, 7:33, 7:28, 7:51. All in all I was pleased with the result for a race effort following a week of unintelligent but fun pre-race training. I now have 4 weeks to get healthy and a little fitter before the next XC race.

Good health and smarter training to all!