50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

KC I can and do run Recovery at 12 minute miles last 5k race pace was 6:08 in June so about 6 minutes a mile slower. The 48 hours actually supports the idea of run slow enough and short enough to limit impact damage while stimulating repair protein production in your cells. Lots of interesting studies to get into the MOA mechanism of action . IMO it has to do with tossing your body thru the air and landing all on one leg! Even at 12 minute miles that is pretty big stimulus.

Allen53 Ritz has some pretty good stuff on the 5k peaking workouts . Also Pete Magill is documenting his 58 year old trip on the come back pretty interesting stuff.

Lactate threshold is what really declined after taking a few years off. Anyhow I am trying to increase my lactate threshold during base doing a weekly 35 to 40 minutes where I slow it down if it gets uncomfortable and NOT speed up if I feel good;)

socal cush wrote:

Charlie wrote:

Allen53 WAGs you were still a bit tired from the 6x1000 and/or your lactate threshold is too low and/or 5k race pace effort is FASTER than comfortably hard;)

Stumbled across an excellent training site you probably all ready know about but others might not:

https://www.podiumrunner.com/the-10-week-advanced-5k-training-plan_31348

On the re methylation after 48 hours so enter the recovery run maybe keeps the fitness proteins transcribing so run every day.

why read the article when you have such a nice picture?

Check out the dude in the black singlet staring at Cush with fear and trepidation. “Should I stay, or should I go.”

That’s what I focus on too, Igy. We had the discussion earlier where some people said biomechanically there reaches a point where they’re too slow to keep their form, but I can trot at 11:00 pace after a brutal workout without as you say slogging. Nico nico guy looks like he’s doing a 20-minute pace with good form!

Out-of-shape Magill runs laps around ultra-fit me.

Charlie, this makes sense to me. And I’m not worried about LT. Kid Coach gave me 29 minutes of escalating tempo work Wednesday, I’ll add 45-60 minutes of T on Sunday’s long run, giving me 17%-19% for the week.

I am enjoying my weekly rituals, Wednesday track work (R-T-I alternating weeks) and Sunday longo. I used to be on a 9-day cycle so I would have 2 easy days before another hard day. I would trade that for just 2 hard workouts a week, and nico nico the rest of the week, if I can keep my fitness.

KCgeezer, I think as you get closer to 70 most of us need to adapt again. There are exception like Gene Dikes. It seems the walk/jog is a good balance for me. Oldguy II is of similar vintage incorporating a variation of same.

Between now and 70 which is 15+ years I hope we get more data on older runners. One thing gene and I have in common is we started running in our fifties.

Meanwhile the 'life in Zone 2' experiment continues. 4.6 today - 7:14, 7:07, 7:20; 7:25 and 4.27 (7:24 pace) for last 0.6.

More even paced than it sounds as I had the coastal wind dead behind for first two miles and dead against for about 2 of last 2.6.

According to my (sometimes) trusty Garmin it was average hr of 122, max of 134, and was just a 'maintaining' effort.

I did do a very slow 90 min - more like a run/hike on Sunday - on what part of what is going to be the Siuslaw Dunes Trail Race in March. Sand is too soft to run at any great pace on it at the moment.

Today's run felt pretty comfortable - held back a bit to keep average hr down towards 125 area. Not sure what pace (average of 7:18) it is physiologically. Probably a little slower than LT, although I don't know that I could maintain it for 10 miles (but that would be leg fatigue, more that cardio/lt).

Since I can't do speedwork at the moment in case I upset the ankle, and I don't have any racing goals until I can actually do structured training, I'm not too worried whether this is optimal training, as long as I am keeping weight off, retaining some fitness and the ankle is getting better. If I start to 'train off' I can always switch to more aerobic runs for a bit. I'm sure that this is intense enough to peak, though, so that may not happen.

Have to say that this Zone 2 pace where you shouldn't be - say 7:15 - 7-40 for me - is an awfully seductive one. It's quick enough that you feel that you are moving smoothly, not having to keep checking yourself back, but not so quick that it's uncomfortable.

Charlie - I was interested to see you mention methylation. I've done quiet a lot of studying of dna of racehorses, both on potential performance and on breeding. Suspect methylation is part of the reason that a stallion sires less top-class horses as he ages. Even though the look fine, there are some subtle changes to the genome in areas that impact performance. The genetic make up of the stallion doesn't change, but the expression of what he passes on changes. So for example if a T for myostatin gets expressed or passed on instead of a C, you would have more slow-twitch muscle fiber.

Wow nico nico, methylation, Pete Magill, Gene Dykes! I can't keep up. I just run.

Good luck to the Flint milers this evening!

An easy run is an easy run. That is, I don’t think about the watch. Rather I think about how I feel. It’s supposed to feel easy, right? My watch is running, but I don’t look at it until I’ve finished. Listen to your body.

oId guy wrote:

An easy run is an easy run. That is, I don’t think about the watch. Rather I think about how I feel.

Some of us do easy runs where we progress from easy-easy to a more aggressive form of easy running. It’s the latter type of workout I’m giving up for now. If it works out, and I don’t lose racing fitness, then that means easier recovery, not as tired during the day (though I always take a nap at some point), etc.

Tip of the day from Pete Magill - don’t wear the same shoe for training day after day. This week I finally broke down and replaced my Saucony ISO Freedom 2s ... with Saucony ISO Freedom 2. It was like a totally different shoe. There was no bounce in the old ones after 1200 miles, but I didn’t realize that until I ran in the new one! But I still have my Wave Shadows with less than 500 miles. I think Pete is onto something, and since I have two pairs to switch off I’ll try that. Every Wednesday I wear a third pair, racing shoes, to the track.

socal cush wrote:

Charlie wrote:

Allen53 WAGs you were still a bit tired from the 6x1000 and/or your lactate threshold is too low and/or 5k race pace effort is FASTER than comfortably hard;)

Stumbled across an excellent training site you probably all ready know about but others might not:

https://www.podiumrunner.com/the-10-week-advanced-5k-training-plan_31348

On the re methylation after 48 hours so enter the recovery run maybe keeps the fitness proteins transcribing so run every day.

why read the article when you have such a nice picture?

The picture is not that great. All you can see of me is my bald head over #6421's shoulder.

Ran the 5K today in 19:51- first time I've gone under 20:00. Felt pretty good about that.

Had a horrible night's sleep and figured that would be a negative impact.

There was a runner in the race I was familiar with and was pretty certain he would go under 20:00 so I decided to stick with him as long as possible. He is pretty experienced so I also figured I could learn a few things on pacing if I stayed on his shoulder.

First mile was 6:30, second one was exactly the same, with the third mile was 6:19- that's according to this guy who told me this later. I was surprised how relaxed it was to run those first two miles. Running that last mile at 6:19 was probably the best sign.

Ended up 6 seconds behind the guy I was running with as he had more in the last 1/2 mile. Ended up 2nd in age group. Nice to see some of these efforts pay off like that.

Allen53 wrote:

Ran the 5K today in 19:51- first time I've gone under 20:00. Felt pretty good about that.

Ended up 6 seconds behind the guy I was running with as he had more in the last 1/2 mile. Ended up 2nd in age group. Nice to see some of these efforts pay off like that.

Excellent job Allen! It sure does help to have someone to stay in contact with, doesn't it?

However that didn't help me however last night at the USATF Mile Championship in Flint. It was humbling experience, but in the big picture it could have been worse. Realistically I finished about where I should have... was just hoping for more.

Nice easy 10 mile today. May take one or two more stabs at the mile, but I am not (and never was a miler). Several local Cross Country races coming up and I do running enjoy those.

Hope all had a good week.

KCgeezer wrote:

Tip of the day from Pete Magill - don’t wear the same shoe for training day after day. This week I finally broke down and replaced my Saucony ISO Freedom 2s ... with Saucony ISO Freedom 2. It was like a totally different shoe. There was no bounce in the old ones after 1200 miles, but I didn’t realize that until I ran in the new one! But I still have my Wave Shadows with less than 500 miles. I think Pete is onto something, and since I have two pairs to switch off I’ll try that. Every Wednesday I wear a third pair, racing shoes, to the track.

What is the advantage?

Yea, I don’t get it, and I have been running for 55 years.

I could see warming up in a flat, and changing to a racing flat for faster running. Or a more cushioned shoe for asphalt or concrete, but don’t see the necessity of changing shoes daily for similar purposes or surfaces.

AK-67 wrote:

KCgeezer wrote:

Tip of the day from Pete Magill - don’t wear the same shoe for training day after day. This week I finally broke down and replaced my Saucony ISO Freedom 2s ... with Saucony ISO Freedom 2. It was like a totally different shoe. There was no bounce in the old ones after 1200 miles, but I didn’t realize that until I ran in the new one! But I still have my Wave Shadows with less than 500 miles. I think Pete is onto something, and since I have two pairs to switch off I’ll try that. Every Wednesday I wear a third pair, racing shoes, to the track.

What is the advantage?

Apart from different shoes for different speeds, the idea is that you get slight changes in mechanics with different shoes, which might help fend off overuse injures.

Cavorty wrote:

Apart from different shoes for different speeds, the idea is that you get slight changes in mechanics with different shoes, which might help fend off overuse injures.

Exactly. I currently rotate four pairs of shoes, plus a pair of racing flats I sometimes use for workouts. They're all a bit different, most low-drop and fairly minimal, but one pair are higher-drop and more cushioned. That pair seems to put more stress on my knees while being kinder to my achilles and hips. I just figure it's good to alter the biomechanics a little each day.

Also, it allows the shoes to thoroughly dry and air out between uses.

Beautiful weather in Flint MI for usatf masters 1 mile & crim 10 miler. Good to see some friendly and familiar faces. 1mile race went about expected especially with no 1 mile preparation, finishing in 524 good for 2nd in the 60+ AG. Then after about 3 hours sleep did tempo of crim 10 miler in 635 pace with slowest 711 & fastest 607. Felt tired and niggle in left calf at the end. Still in Flint staying at my wife aunt. Weather 55 and clear today but no running must recover. Have a Blessed Sunday.