50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Is that so? I guess that is why my roses with southern exposure bloom so well in summer. Who would have thought?

Allen1959 wrote:

Interestingly, Dr. Mesa ran a couple 3:09 marathons in 2011, and 3:00 in 2013. Anyone know more about him or his training?

He trains duathlon style!

Allen1959 wrote:

Each week I have been checking marathon results, looking for M60+ runners under 3 hours. At the LA Marathon, 69-year-old Frank Meza of South Pasadena ran 2:56:12. Wow!

Haha...EPIC throwback!

Oopsie ...

https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/news/a28274558/frank-meza-disqualified-for-cheating/

https://deadspin.com/record-setting-70-year-old-marathon-champ-disqualified-1836046343

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/07/02/year-old-shattered-an-age-group-record-los-angeles-marathon-says-he-cheated/?utm_term=.686bb15574dc

Never can understand cheating being it PEDs or otherwise. I guess I understand for a poor Kenyan in need of a paycheck, but not a masters.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Never can understand cheating being it PEDs or otherwise. I guess I understand for a poor Kenyan in need of a paycheck, but not a masters.

Because so much of the masters scene these days is performance based vs participation based. No one cares if a 70 year old finishes a marathon in 4+ hours anymore, but if the 70 year old breaks 3 hrs he becomes some kind of a hero, legend & the talk of the town.

So now Meza is a disqualified for cheating and people are shocked. And the irony is if you question the warp speed performances of some of these older competitors, you get criticized & lambasted for doing so. But like I said it's all about performance these days for masters and I think some will do anything to get that recognition.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Never can understand cheating being it PEDs or otherwise. I guess I understand for a poor Kenyan in need of a paycheck, but not a masters.

I see it as purely an ego thing, in two different ways. First, he gets his ego stroked externally by all the recognition he gets from others for his magnificent achievements. Second, he gets his ego stroked internally by showing that he's clever enough to get away with cheating, over and over again. I'll bet both are significant drivers for a guy who is apparently quite accomplished in a high-status profession.

amkelley wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Never can understand cheating being it PEDs or otherwise. I guess I understand for a poor Kenyan in need of a paycheck, but not a masters.

I see it as purely an ego thing, in two different ways. First, he gets his ego stroked externally by all the recognition he gets from others for his magnificent achievements. Second, he gets his ego stroked internally by showing that he's clever enough to get away with cheating, over and over again. I'll bet both are significant drivers for a guy who is apparently quite accomplished in a high-status profession.

Ego is a huge driver at the masters level. No offense intended, but we see that with certain participants on this thread. It is not necessarily a bad thing, but for some it gets out of hand.

amkelley wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Never can understand cheating being it PEDs or otherwise. I guess I understand for a poor Kenyan in need of a paycheck, but not a masters.

I see it as purely an ego thing, in two different ways. First, he gets his ego stroked externally by all the recognition he gets from others for his magnificent achievements. Second, he gets his ego stroked internally by showing that he's clever enough to get away with cheating, over and over again. I'll bet both are significant drivers for a guy who is apparently quite accomplished in a high-status profession.

Ego is a huge driver at the masters level. No offense intended, but we see that with certain participants on this thread. It is not necessarily a bad thing, but for some it gets out of hand.

oId guy wrote:

[quote]amkelley wrote:

Ego is a huge driver at the masters level. No offense intended, but we see that with certain participants on this thread. It is not necessarily a bad thing, but for some it gets out of hand.

you don't need to name names, but elaborate a bit. what do you mean?

Casting aspersions toward others is as dangerous character flaw as an unhinged ego.

amkelley wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Never can understand cheating being it PEDs or otherwise. I guess I understand for a poor Kenyan in need of a paycheck, but not a masters.

I see it as purely an ego thing, in two different ways. First, he gets his ego stroked externally by all the recognition he gets from others for his magnificent achievements. Second, he gets his ego stroked internally by showing that he's clever enough to get away with cheating, over and over again. I'll bet both are significant drivers for a guy who is apparently quite accomplished in a high-status profession.

Yes...very true. More than anything...the ego does not want to die. As you get older, it becomes increasingly difficult for the ego to accept it's mortality. If a person cannot tame the ego as he/she gets older...it can go a bit wacko and do crazy sh..t like this fellow. The ego thinks that if it can gain enough importance...enough observers...enough fame...it can possible suffer the fate of the ordinary man.

At least that's how I look at it.

oops... I meant...it can't possibly suffer fate of ordinary man.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Never can understand cheating being it PEDs or otherwise. I guess I understand for a poor Kenyan in need of a paycheck, but not a masters.

Yeah...definitely where there's big paydays from prize earnings, six-figure sponsorship contracts and the money that can be earned from the glory of winning an Olympic or WC gold medal - cheating will run rampant (see the Russian debacle per the McLaren report).

But with masters it's a bit perplexing when most are just racing for trophies & bragging rights.

And this case with a competitive masters race walker is downright confusing. He won two races at the indoor championships where he was unopposed in his age group. After testing positive, he claims tainted lotion or bad testing but elected not to fight the charges and accepted the ban:

So, if he did intentionally use T and competed unopposed in his group, what would be the reason? ?

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Casting aspersions toward others is as dangerous character flaw as an unhinged ego.

What?

“What?” Is the psychology of someone always needling.

The passing of Frank Meza is very sad. It didn't have to end this way.

*Week 421*

Greetings, 50+ers! I'm going to be sort of AWOL today. Last week went better than expected thanks to my Hokas, which allowed me to walk without putting much stress on my big toe (I guess this makes Hokas anathema to Charlie's training philosophy.) I even had a better than usual run/walk session Tuesday. The week didn't end so well, though, as I had a litany of things to do including a couple of out-of-town day trips. Weather's been pretty sucky, too, which put a damper on my enthusiasm to get out the door late in the afternoon.

Good luck to anyone traveling to Ames, IA for Masters Nationals Outdoor T&F. Hope you've had a good week; any 4th of July races to report?

All the Best!

PS-Toe's is feeling much better now, so I hope to have a better report next week.

Also was saddened to hear about Frank Meza, and wish that it did not end the way that I did. Been thinking a fair amount about it and have been looking for some perspective from someone (not a troll or sleuth on the threads, although some have put in some reasonable thought). Haven't seen much. But here are some of my thoughts for what it's worth (and probably not much).

I saw the opening of the thread while still in Poland last spring and by half way through page 1 figured that his time at the LA Marathon was suspect, due to his previous DQs from CIM, and that it would blow over in a week. So I pretty much ignored it all--figuring it was all just a bunch of crazy trolls and blowhards doing what they do here--until the other week when it was announced he'd been DQ'd from LA. And then the media storm hit a week and a half ago.

I do think that cheaters should be caught and held accountable (that is disqualified) but that it should be up to the race directors. In this case the online sleuths here did their job, but this was very wild west vigilante justice and it ought not be that way. It's unfortunate but especially at these big races--and anything sanctioned by USATF--the race director should be hiring investigators and the work should be done in a reasonable process at that level and in the end the DQ can be handed discretely or with a public announcement.

As athletes, for BQ level and up (e.g., USATF rankings, records etc.) we should have a license, paying maybe an extra $10 or $20 a year for administrative handling, where we vow to abide by rules and regs (which we already do of course!), and if we violate those codes (e.g., cheating) we get suspended. In the Meza case he would have been suspended by 2014 and we probably would not have had to have gone through all this.

And probably, almost certainly, the site owners here should have shut that thread down--and any subsequent crop ups--within a day after the DQ was finally announced. But in reality what should be done is not. So maybe after this tragic ending, maybe we should reconsider how these cases are handled and I'd like to see our governing boards, race managers, and media outlets (including this site), as well as ourselves to step up and develop a fair system to catch cheaters but without the likes mob rule.

I'll probably get flamed for this but those are my thoughts and lame attempt at punditry.