50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Not Done - thanks for the link.

amkelley - thanks for the happy bday wish and long runs are never "easy" just easier effort than others, ha.

Interesting looking at all the posts. Congrats to the many folks getting after it in training and racing, impressive stuff.

Another week trying to keep things steady and roll through the summer healthy. Work, motivation, and lack of sleep all came crashing down resulting in a zero day and bit lower mileage for the week. Real life...

M - 12 miles, 2,000+ ft of elevation gain on trails.

T - 5 miles easy.

W - 11 miles w/ 8 x 1000 @ threshold w/ 2 min recovery jog (3:54,47,48,52,47,46,47,47) + 8 x 200 w/ 200 jog recovery all around 40 sec.

R - 0

F - 5 miles easy.

S - 8 miles easy.

U - 14+ miles w/ 4K,3,2,1 tempo, 1 min recovery per K, couple seconds either side of 6:25/mi for the tempo.

Best wishes to all for the upcoming week!

Coyote - great race at Boulder,congrats Quick question - how do you structure your 60 mile weeks? I've been right around 50 with 2 workout days and a moderate/long run on the weekend. Trying to sort thru where to add the miles to get up to 60. Do you do any doubles?

Coyote Montane wrote:

Ran Bolder Boulder 10K on Monday. 38:10, 1st AG and new single age record. Had a brief chat with socal cush just after finishing. He was brave to face the altitude and ran a good time.

Back up to the 60 mpw range for past few weeks and time to start rolling with some good training.

Coyote, congratulations on a fine run at BB!

Charlie wrote:

Heat training can make you faster.

I don't know about that. A hard or long run in even slightly warm weather just leaves me completely trashed for days. I have run a number of short races (5k-10k) in hot summer weather and I seem to perform about as well as other people, and I've never had a medically significant overheating issue. But I just hate it, and running in the heat saps my strength for days. Perhaps I'm just not drinking enough afterward? Anyway, I realize how fortunate I am to live in a climate where it usually gets decently cool at night even in the middle of summer. This morning it was 68 at the start of my run and 73 at the finish and I was plenty hot, but I can handle this. Ten degree warmer and I can't.

Charlie,

I really liked the happy, slightly surprised tone of your voice calling the sub 6 min splits on your second run.

Yesterday I walked 2 miles and this morning I walked 4 miles, so I may finally have broken free from upper respiratory infection hell.

You will acclimate to the heat. When I was coaching at The University of Texas-Rio Grande Valley the distance runners had two a days 2-5 times a week throughout the year. Afternoon workouts Monday through Friday were at 3:30 pm, which September-October and April-May you had temperatures upper 80s and low 90s most of the time. Monday and Wednesday afternoons were typically hard days. Training served us well since the athletes competed in our conference meets that were in southern and typically warmer/humid climates. Boise is dry, moderate temperatures except July and August. So one certainly goes thru an adjustment to warmer temperatures.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

You will acclimate to the heat.

Seems to me that she is saying exactly the opposite.

AK-67 wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

You will acclimate to the heat.

Seems to me that she is saying exactly the opposite.

Seems to me that you are trying to stir the pot....as usual.

AK-67 wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

You will acclimate to the heat.

Seems to me that she is saying exactly the opposite.

Your comment adds nothing to the discussion except dispute. Was it supposed to have some other purpose?

old guy II wrote:

AK-67 wrote:

Seems to me that she is saying exactly the opposite.

Your comment adds nothing to the discussion except dispute. Was it supposed to have some other purpose?

Clarification. I believe he misunderstood what she posted. (Or perhaps I did.)

It does seem that some people adapt to the heat more easily than others, like myself. In contrast, my wife, who is a fair skinned blonde, really struggles with the heat So we don't risk long long runs for her anymore. So I ran the corporate challenge 1 mile track race last night and in the warm slightly muggy slightly windy weather ran a 754 mile for eighth out of 21 finishers in the 65+ age group. So I scored a bonus point by holding off another fellow by one second. Only the top eight score extra points as well as division points based on our company size. Any health for not doing speed work because of recovering from the half marathon I was pleased to get under eight for one more year but will have to do speed work if I'm going to get under eight next year and maybe even consider skipping the half, though the half is where I have medaled three times. It was certainly fun to race on the track which I rarely ever do and usually this is the only track race that I do in a year although there was certainly some anxiety before hand

Where I said any health that should have dictated and am happy

Nice job on the mile race, Mike! I think the mile is about the most painful distance you can race. That's why I don't do it!

I really do not seem to acclimate to either heat or cold, although my comfort range seems to extend more to the cold side than most people's. If I get hot (or cold) once, I find that in subsequent runs I am much more susceptible to getting overheated (or chilled). I handle a given too-warm temperature much better in June, when it's hot for the first time, than in August, when I've been perpetually hot for two months. Same thing for cold--I tolerate a given cold temperature better in December than in February.

Here is what a typical 60 mile week would look.

M - 5 or 6 very easy

T - 8

W - 10 with a workout (e.g., reps of 600 m to 1200 m or a tempo), may or may not be a double

Th - 7 or 8

F - 6

S - 9 with a workout

S - 13 or 14

I'll do doubles twice a week or so, but not always. Today I did two workouts, 32 and 41 minutes because I felt off in the first run and decided to break it up.

the end of the school year always cuts into my internet usage--probably a good thing at times--so sorry for a delayed race report for bolderboulder. as CM mentioned, altitude is a sort of an achilles heel for me, but i was overall pleased with my effort and i had a good time crossing off a bucketlist race. i've gotten used to the fact that elite and sub-elite women can beat me soundly, but i was humbled by the youth runners under age 13 that crushed me. oh well. even at my best i found myself getting beaten at altitude by runners who likely wouldn't beat me at sea level...

speaking of achilles heel, i've had anther flare up while running the bend beer chase this past saturday. it was supposed to be "fun run" 55 mile relay, and i had intended to treat it like a tempo workout. but even with my modest goals, a sore spot in my achilles--i assume a gift from monday's 10k--hobbled me around 3 miles into a 7 mile leg, and being part of a relay meant i had to finish. it was only the 2nd leg of the race, and i was to take another longer 6.5 mile leg later, but we had to scramble our order with one of the runners doing 3 legs instead of what should have been two legs each. i had the two longest legs because i was supposedly the most fit, which obviously did not go true to form. we still won the mixed masters category, and had i been healthy, we may have had a shot at beating the top men's masters squad, even with 3 women over 54 (at 51, i was the youngest on the team)! as it was we still got 4th overall, and despite the fact that i had to limp around the rest of the evening didn't dampen my spirits too much, and the beer still tasted good, though probably not as good as it might have if i could share more in the stories of "roadkill" (how many athletes you pass during your legs) since we started in the last wave.

now it looks like at least a week off, and then i'll have to cross my fingers that this will recover more quickly that some of my other achilles mishaps...

cush

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

You will acclimate to the heat. When I was coaching at The University of Texas-Rio Grande Valley the distance runners had two a days 2-5 times a week throughout the year. Afternoon workouts Monday through Friday were at 3:30 pm, which September-October and April-May you had temperatures upper 80s and low 90s most of the time. Monday and Wednesday afternoons were typically hard days. Training served us well since the athletes competed in our conference meets that were in southern and typically warmer/humid climates. Boise is dry, moderate temperatures except July and August. So one certainly goes thru an adjustment to warmer temperatures.

Those are "young bucks" that you're talking about? Wouldn't it different for many of us middle-agers? Well...at least maybe for me.

About 5 yrs ago at age 54, I sustained heat exhaustion/borderline heat stroke doing a tempo run on a 98 degree clear day here one hot July afternoon in Denver. I was well hydrated and historically I had always trained in the hot heat in the summer with no problems (loved it!). This time something was very different. Two-thirds into my 6 mile tempo, I started feeling dizzy, nauseated, unstable and started seeing "spots." I also stopped sweating and developed what felt like chills. I quickly headed home barely able to walk back (I live about mile from the open space park that I train at and usually walk/jog as a warm-up & cool down to & from).

At home, I had a high temp, cold sweats, poor balance & more dizziness. A call to my health provider instructed me to get to Urgent Care right away. So, my wife drove me there and I was treated with IVs, ice bags, etc. I was seen by a young physician who wasn't all too thrilled about me training in the hot heat at my age. When I told him I had been doing it for years without any problems, he says it doesn't matter because the hypothalamus starts to degrade in middle-age and doesn't regulate body temp as efficient as when you are younger. He proceeds to lecture me on how if I had gone into full-blown heat stroke, I would have been at a very high risk for permanent organ damage or even death. Now, being a heavier, stocky-built runner (5-6, 170), I wonder if my body type doesn't dissipate heat as well as a thinner, smaller built and that I just "got away with it" for so many years. Any other short, stocky runners out there that have trouble with the heat?

So, now it's pretty much 75 degrees if a clear day (direct sunlight can add about 12-15 degrees to your skin temp), and maybe 85 max on a cloudy/overcast day. I definitely don't want to be at the wrath of anymore Urgent Care physicians. Lol.

This is what I call another one of many woes of age-related problems while still having a strong passion for running. ?

Squatty Old Runner wrote:

... He proceeds to lecture me on how if I had gone into full-blown heat stroke, I would have been at a very high risk for permanent organ damage or even death. Now, being a heavier, stocky-built runner (5-6, 170), I wonder if my body type doesn't dissipate heat as well as a thinner, smaller built and that I just "got away with it" for so many years. Any other short, stocky runners out there that have trouble with the heat?

I've told this tale before, but heat stroke at age 27 (5'11, 175 lbs) put me in the hospital for a week, and left permanent liver damage. After finishing a 10K race, but my body temperature continued to spiral out of control. I was unconscious for hours. Another competitor died from heat stroke that day. It wasn't even that hot --

low 80s, a bit humid, but a spring race, and we weren't acclimated.

amkelley -- That's odd; you seem to suffer from "reverse acclimation"! BTW, as a fan of your training, your recent successes have been really satisfying to see.

CM -- I can't remember if I've already congratulated you, but, wow, super-impressive racing at the Bolder Boulder! I'm hoping to trek to Utica next month as a spectator. Hoping it's a cool day.

My week wasn't great. No running. Just one bike ride. Weight ticked up some. I'm still looking to race a 15K in August, but defending my M55-59 title is highly unlikely. I'll be 59.99 years old on race day, which would have made it especially challenging even if I hadn't lost six months of training. :)

Are there any 60+ 800 meter runners out there? I'm 60 looking to get into the 2:20's then hopefully break 2:20 by summer's end.

What mileage do you do? What kind of track workouts?

I coached a lot of good high school 800 guys but none of them were 60 years old!

I was running about 2:09 in my 40's as a reference.

Thanks in advance.

Wow...Allen1959, it didn't know that about you. I guess the young doctor I saw wasn't kidding. How's your liver now? Do you have get regular lab work done, liver panels and all that?

175 back then? Was that ideal racing weight? (I know on previous posts you were at 180+ because of your current injury situation). And I recall you said you ran a mile TT @ sub 7:00 at that weight? Impressive! -- running a sub 7 at 180+ lbs on 5-11 frame at age 59 is outstanding. I'm struggling to break 7:30 towing this 170 lbs on a midget frame (5-6) with this darn OA.

I was reading the other day where a shorter, somewhat stocky but very muscular elite runner (Nick Symmonds) had to retire early (33) due to a torn ligament & stress fracture in his ankle. I wonder if he'll be running at all in his 50's. ?

Squatty, agree that age is a factor. That said, I believe any age can improve their heat tolerance, relatively. I trained purposely in the summer heat prior to 2006 Masters Nationals in Charlottesville, NC. Anyone who ran there can tell you about the heat and humidity. As a 55 year old I had my best USATF finish (2nd 10k 39:00+). It was the toughest conditions I ever ran in, and handled it better than most.