50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

KPdx wrote:

Outstanding wisdom Charlie.

To all y'all excellent advisors. I have never, ever, ever, tried working at a lighter volume training plan focused on high-quality.....Seems like it might work to reduce the chronic self-inflicted injuries to my hammies/glutes, soleus/gastrocs. BUTT, does an old Middle-Distance guy even have a chance to stay fit-to-race at Age-Grade 90%+ with running only 4 or 5 days per week?

Welcome input.

KP

It has worked for Gary Patton. In another ten years may be required. Of course Gene Dykes defeated Patton over 1500m 5:17ish for both doing ultra training. So variable for each of us. Staying in the game is the first goal.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

KPdx wrote:

Outstanding wisdom Charlie.

To all y'all excellent advisors. I have never, ever, ever, tried working at a lighter volume training plan focused on high-quality.....Seems like it might work to reduce the chronic self-inflicted injuries to my hammies/glutes, soleus/gastrocs. BUTT, does an old Middle-Distance guy even have a chance to stay fit-to-race at Age-Grade 90%+ with running only 4 or 5 days per week?

Welcome input.

KP

It has worked for Gary Patton. In another ten years may be required. Of course Gene Dykes defeated Patton over 1500m 5:17ish for both doing ultra training. So variable for each of us. Staying in the game is the first goal.

Gene beat Gary by a lot over 5 and 10 but it was hotter than a biscuit but Gary is missing some base in IMO of course

5000 19:31 to 21:21

10000 40x to 45x

Building a base has made a huge difference in how I feel. I tried walking + interval type stuff for 2 years 60 to 62 . Started out ok for 6 months then Kaput! After 7 months of lsd I am running a couple of AG Percents better with almost no hard stuff.

My conversion reminds me of THE book explained all this was one by Joe Henderson.

better link to the table of contents

http://www.joehenderson.com/longslowdistance/home.php?article=

KPdx wrote:

....does an old Middle-Distance guy even have a chance to stay fit-to-race at Age-Grade 90%+ with running only 4 or 5 days per week?

KP

If you come up with the plan that works on 4-5 days, I'll be the first to sign up!

Just to add a bit to the roller coaster craziness training of a Masters Runner... Last week I was on the verge of quitting running forever. Everyday sucked bad and running was a tiresome drag. (Short story...we figured out transitioning to a WFPB diet left me seriously depleted in some areas and physically drained). So fast forward to todays 10. Felt like a world beater. Closed with the last 5 in 718,715,704,646,635. After barely being able to run 2 miles at 8:12 pace three days ago.

Once again giving me hope again...

Dave

Tue = 4 miles with 10X 1 min on 2 min off

Thr = 4 miles easy on TM

Sat = 4 miles with 5 reps on super-steep 160-meter hill ranging from 9 to 14-degree grade

Sun = 5 miles easy on cinder rails-to-trails

My legs didn’t seem to recover from last week, staying semi-sore with a few hot spots. So, I eased back on Thr to allow them to “catch up”. Seemed to work as I felt good again Sat and Sun.

I switched out the Sat track workout with some really hard hill work on a street near my house. I thought of doing more than just 5 but, no kidding, I physically don’t think I could have done another one without walking. Musta done something since the glutes, hams, and calves are sore today.

Ran early, need to head out for my youngest granddaughter’s 6th birthday party! Lazer tag!

Have a good week folks!

My wife had hernia repair surgery Tuesday, so I took a week of vacation to look after her. Pretty much wouldn’t even know she had surgery by the end of the week. I finished projects around the house and cut back on my running. Saturday I pushed myself a bit running the 9.3 mile Hull’s loop with it’s 700+ elevation gain. Over the coming weeks plan to challenge myself with more volume.

Have a good week.

Igy

I still feel I’m trying to climb out from the hole I dug myself into with that back-to-back marathon and half-marathon. This week, after taking Mon-Fri pretty easy I ran fairly hard on Saturday and came out with my heel really sore. I don’t know how much was because of the run and how much was a result of having my exuberant 7-month-old puppy jump on me and land with his full 70 pounds of force squarely on my bad heel, an hour after I finished my run. Boy did that hurt. So today it was back on the bike. My week:

Mon: 5.0 mile run and 45 min on bike trainer, babying sore heel.

Tues: 10.1 miles

Weds: 10.0 miles

Thurs: 11.0 miles

Fri: 10.4 miles

Sat: 14.2 miles starting easy and ramping up, averaging 8:44/mile.

Sun: 32 miles on bike after watching recorded London Marathon, fast-forwarding through the commercials and boring parts. Kipchoge is amazing!

Racerdb, what a great comeback! Good to know the old race-day magic can still show up.

Igy, best wishes to your wife—sounds like she’s bouncing back quickly.

I have a half-marathon next Saturday, assuming the heel calms down enough for me to run. I hope the 6:45 am start will allow us to finish before it gets too hot. It’s already feeling like summer here, with highs over 90.

Another low volume running week due to high volume work week (work BTW is HIGHLY overrated)

Just 24 miles with daily core, push ups, sit ups and a bit of weights

One good session, a 4 mile progression run on the track in 33:46...finished in 7:30

Hit 400 miles year to date this morning...a number that I used to tally in one month now takes 4...turning 63 on Wednesday so, glad to still be in perpetual motion...at all.

Train don't strain,

MF

The unpredictability of running while old caught me this week. On Saturday morning I was doing the same strides that I have been doing almost every other day for the last 5 months with zero problems. On the 10th one I got a hamstring cramp that left me slowly and carefully walking the mile and a half to home. The only different thing I had done before it happened was that on Thursday afternoon I had spent about an hour and a half going up and down, and standing on a ladder to put up some patio lights. I know that standing on a ladder rung with just your forefoot puts a load on the hamstrings, but they seemed fine on Friday morning's run, although I did feel slow and tired for the run. My hamstring was slightly sore the rest of Saturday. This morning I felt almost no soreness and went out for 8 miles of "walk a mile/ run a mile." As long as I kept the running at a choppy little stride that was about 10min/mi pace the hamstring felt OK, but I could tell that any acceleration from that would cause a problem. I would be less annoyed about this minor hiccup in training if I hadn't already entered a road mile for next Sunday. Now, I will just take the coming week day by day with easy running and walking, and race next Sunday if my hamstring feels 100% OK, or be a spectator if it doesn't. 45 slow miles and a damaged hamstring for the week .

Good and injury-free running to all!

Hello everyone,

I’m back from my trip. Definitely appreciate the recommendations.

Igy – I actually did the run along the river path that you recommended. Very nice scenery for running. Hydration recc. was a good one too.

AK-67 – thank you for the Great Runs in Denver link – I was able to figure out that the above recommendation was for the Platte River trail.

Coyote Montane – It was great that all of you recommended the same run. I also appreciate your meeting up with me for a run one day. I really enjoyed meeting you and appreciate your taking it a bit easier on the pace : ) Hopefully I did not talk your ear off : )

HRE – thanks for your input – you were right. Since all I did were aerobic pace runs, I did not feel anything at all.

Runlebec – While I did not do exactly what you suggested, first day in town I walked around a lot to try to acclimate.

Paul061-Definitely not a pathetic story – I really appreciate your persistence to keep giving it a go!!

Charlie – I could almost feel the inspiration in your writing!!!

Old guy II – I definitely empathize with you regarding sore hamstring….

So… my past week of training:

Sunday – 2 mile warmup, 1.5 miles of circuit training/plyometrics, 6 fly 30's... jog 10 meters, sprint 30 meters, deacceleration zone for 20 meters, complete 400 meter lap and repeat – felt good – no hamstring pain (hold that thought….); Ended with 4 mile cooldown.

Monday – Played lacrosse with my son in the morning before school. After school, joined my son for his pre-race day 4 mile run – 33:15.

Tuesday – Threw a football around with my son in the morning. Later that day, got 4 miles doing all of my son’s prerace warmups and cooldowns with him (he qualified for middle school states in the mile and set his school record; he also ran on 4x400 team that came in 1st).

Wednesday – Flew to Denver – Walked around a lot to try to acclimate. Went to conference…

Thursday – Ran 5.5 miles along the Platte river in 45:01. I was shocked how easy it felt. It was 40 degrees and no humidity. The same run is so much harder when it is low 90s with 95% humidity!!!

Friday - Ran 1320 meters to train station in 6:47; took train out to meet Coyote Montane – We ran 11,480 meters in 1:00:40. Very enjoyable run along canals running between parks and little ponds. Talked his ear off : ) Took train back into Denver. Ran additional 2 miles in 16:22 (Goal was 10 miles for the day).

Saturday – Flew back to Tampa – 2.5 hours after landing, I kept my promise to my son and joined him in his workout. 2 mile warmup and then repeat 400s. All of mine were between 1:23 and 1:25 but it was much much harder than usual. It was very hot, very humid, and windy and my legs were stiff from the flight…. The 200 m jog recoveries just weren’t working… by the end, my hamstrings just felt like they were going to give out… Ended with 3 mile cooldown but one hamstring stayed really tight….

old guy II,

Early in the week I was calking gutters, siding and roof. The touched-up exterior paint, finished with house wash and windows. Several days up and down the ladder. I could tell my legs were trashed so took a couple of days easy. Still on Saturday battled the niggles.

Igy

Hope you are better by next weekend OGII. Nice way to bounce back rdb. And good volume (esp in recovery phase) amk.

I'm gradually making my way back from the flurry of racing and travel last month. 53 miles for the week. Highlights included an hour run with Mkarver in the D suburbs, discussing among other things training, altitude vs. humidity, letsrun trolls...Did some 2 min reps later in the day to start working on faster work again, 90 minutes today on a fairly hilly loop at a state park.

Building to Bolder Boulder next month.

Have a good week everyone!

*Week 411*

Greetings, 50+ers! You can probably guess how my week went. It was pretty predictable in that it started out with runs Sunday and Tuesday, then I just had too many irons in the fire at work. Yesterday would have been a great day to run, but I spent it all catching up on housework and mowing the lawn (which gave me a few hours of fat-burning and cardio according to my fitbit.) Will this week be any better? I'm not hopeful, though things are winding down in come areas at work.

After Tuesday, I didn't get a chance to peruse the thread, so I'll have to catch-up this afternoon if I can.

Hope you all had good weeks, soooooo looking forward to the end of this semester. Any USATF masters 10k reports?

All the Best!

OldGuy2,

I feel for ya bud. Sucks Getting Old? “Sucks Being Old” is what I say. I’m walking, spinning, plus 15min core routine on day 12 since tweeking my right calf from doing nothing but attempting a 10min warm-up for a Track Workout. Waiting and waiting for the “grabbing feeling” to be gone.

My only joy in running is through coaching. Great couple of kids and one baby master with pretty good results this week.

Senior boy ran 4:04 1500 Sat, 1:59 800 Wed, 8:55 3000 last night.

Sophomore girl ran 9:50 3000 last night.

Master guy ran 2:48 marathon this am.

I feel somewhat reluctant to post a positive week given the trials and tribulations being faced by many of you. But having been there and done that, I feel some good news might be inspirational for some here. So the last 7 days resulted in a solid 21+ miles of actual jogging with really nothing negative to report. I snuck in some elementary fartlek and even did a “long” run. Intensity continues to improve naturally. No golf due to weather (wind and rain).

Mon: 52’ jog w/ utility pole fartlek (6 x 1 on / 3 off); body wt ex

Tues: off

Wed: 60’ jog; body wt ex

Thu: off

Fri: 51’ jog; body wt ex

Sat: off

Sun: 50’ jog; body wt ex

Best to most.

amkelley wrote:

Racerdb, what a great comeback! Good to know the old race-day magic can still show up.

Thanks. True it was race day, but I decided Thursday I was not racing Saturday. So I bailed. It was just a run from my house.

In addition to my roller coaster post above, I finished the week with just 42 miles. I ran everyday but just not very much. I'm feeling like yesterdays 10 was a turning point, for the better. I salvaged my week with a decent run, 10 @ 7:20/pace with a solid last 5. And all of a sudden I'm feeling good about my running again. Its amazing what one good run will do for my spirits. I just need to keep my chin up on the not so good days...

I was up very early to catch the London Marathon. I always enjoy watching these big time marathons but I have no desire to ever run another. Its so unbelievable how fast those guys are running. And its kind of depressing that I would be hard pressed to run 1/4 mile at Kipchoge's marathon pace!

Have a good week,

Dave

By Saturday had recovered well from thursdays inspiration fast stuff. Decided to do a 3 hour run walk about half way through I spotted a white hair running fast a few blocks away. Off I went to see who this guy was small towns ya know I know all the runners and this guy was not a local. Took me 5 minutes to catch up to him. He was even older than I first thought. Said he was going a long ways and was disturbed/perturbed by my presence this was halfway across the big bridge. Off I went thinking ok I will explore new territory. Ended up with 16 minutes of hilly tempo running at the Odd Fellows Cemetery in Glenada. Did some walking then another tempo 14 minutes at 7 minutes or so not hard not easy.

https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/1991083/odd-fellows-cemetery#view-photo=4556270

2 hours walking 1 hour running the rest was easy 50 minute jogs

More on LSD

Way back in 1967 Osler figured it out . As far as I could find he is still running well

mid 70s speaking at a race

https://youtu.be/Y_9e_xP9ETg

bio at age 69

http://ramscrosscountry.blogspot.com/2009/09/tom-osler-born-to-run-and-teach.html

His running philosophy written in the 60s. I betcha Ed Whitlock read this stuff;)

His response: "It has been my observation that both types of training [sharpening and base] cannot be combined for optimum results over a long period of time. This is because improvement of one's base level requires a large reserve of adaptation energy." Adaptation energy permits the body to respond favorably to changing environmental conditions.

"This reserve is depleted by fast running, the type needed for sharpening work. Base training is like putting money in the bank; sharpening is like taking out the accumulated interest... when done properly. When done improperly, it is like draining one's financial reserves."

He links his discussion of "deposit-withdrawal" with a theory of injuries, illnesses and their prevention. "Injury and illness are the result of overtaxing one's energy reserves and are, in almost all cases, not the result of accident. A properly conditioned runner, whose body can handle even more than the daily training load, is virtually injury- and sickness-proof.

"Injury and illness are serious threats to the future improvement of the athlete and can, with reasonable care, be avoided. The trick is to maintain at all times a sense of overall well-being and freshness, which in turn is the best insurance of good health."

After his 1967 splurge, Osler's racing dropped back to a more modest level through 1969, primarily because he has had PhD study in mathematics eating up most of his spare moments. "However," he quickly added, "my training remains essentially the same as before [averaging 70 miles a week at seven-minute pace], with the exceptions that I race very infrequently and I have done no sharpening. I am in very good health and am sure that I could run 50 miles under six hours with one month of preparation, and in two months could probably get a sub-2:30 marathon."

good week of tapering to goal race for Spring

M 1:00

Tu 1:05 with hill repeats

W 35:00 with strides

th off

F 20:00

Sa x-c 5k in 19:57 [3rd OA, 1st AG, actually first over-20]

Su 30:00 x-t

40th HS reunion went well. I organized Friday night dinner, but since none of us can stay out very late anymore, it didn't interfere with racing Sat. morning.

Race was fun -- 50 degrees and sunny, quite windy but protected from it most of the time in the woods. I was about 15th early on [I think there's a rule that young people have to go out fast in cross-country] and moved up steadily, maybe 6th at end of first of two loops. I think I was making up ground on 1st (19:45) and 2nd (19:50) who were 18 and 16, respectively, but I ran out of room. No doubt they could have responded if I had caught up.

Retroactively bitter that we didn't have an x-c team when I was in high school -- great home course for it, challenging and with a lot of variety.

I still see a couple of my classmates regularly anyway, but even the ones I hadn't seen in decades were instantly recognizable. I guess having a class of 23 helps in that regard.

have a great week,

Dave

Charlie,

Recall reading about Tom “Turtle” Osler. Part of the revolution against interval training in the late 1960s early 1970s. As well as Joe Henderson’s “LSD, the Humane Way to Train.” Interestingly there was a period in the mid-1980s where there was a rebellion against volume and a belief that distance runners could do fine on 70-80 miles a week. As a result the US had a decline in distance running by the close of that decade. As in most things there is balance, finding that, and tailoring it to the individual is key. Even doing more of what you just enjoy is going to provide a better result than little at all.

Igy