Official Russia vs Ukraine War Thread

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2 years ago 01/20/2023 11:27am EST

re: ceccione

ceccione wrote:
The GOP?
The democratic party has also been against universal healthcare for decades. Two right wing, pro war parties.
You are a CNN/Fox/MSNBC constipated sheeple.
Harming average americans by cheerleading more waste is completely unacceptable. In the end, you are helping americans lose, you are not beating Russia (or Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia....)
If you are going to cheerlead waste and dying americans from that waste, start paying for these americans' healthcare:
Link:www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/0...

I noted the GOP because they are the majority party in the House of Representatives, and that is where the relevant legislation would have to be proposed. You inferred a "pass" to the Democrats which was neither express nor implied. That's your mistake.

Your generalized slur about "CNN/Fox/MSNBC constipated sheeple" lessens your credibility on points. You have no idea where other posters get their news (I don't pay for a cable package that includes any of those networks; I have never watched Fox or MSNBC and haven't watched CNN in almost two decades). Buzz word allegations are made by unserious people.

Are we "beating" Russia? Unknown at this point. Are we weakening Russia? Signs point to "yes". Many think weakening a land grabbing, murderous, thieving, election-interfering, criminal refuge like Russia is a good thing. If you don't, that's your choice, but you aren't making an effective case for the other side. You haven't made an effective case for the aid being waste. You haven't explained when, if this isn't the right time, it would be the right time to stop Russian territorial expansion.

Your demands that we start increasing medical coverage are ridiculous. Not because it wouldn't be a good thing to do it, but because it is irrelevant to the conversation. We aren't members of Congress, and you and I both know that neither party is going to do it regardless of the Ukraine aid or the overall budget. It's like telling Putin he can't wage war until every Russian swears off vodka. There is no connection and it isn't going to happen. It is just a way of pretending to have an argument.

2 years ago 01/20/2023 11:32am EST

re: WhatDaFuq?

WhatDaFuq? wrote:
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
Ukraine isn't free you idiot.
Because you'd never even heard of it prior to last year you think it was a thriving democracy. LOL!
Are you saying Viktor Yanukovych wasn't democratically elected?
p.s. I visited Ukraine in 2014 and have family that has lived there for the last 10 years. So, take your projections about your own lack of geographic awareness and shove them up your a**.

If you think the most corrupt country in Europe has clean elections you're a moron.

2 years ago 01/20/2023 11:35am EST

re: TheAdultInTheRoom

So are we pro-russia now?

2 years ago 01/20/2023 11:41am EST

re: Rick Cheney

Rick Cheney wrote:
So are we pro-russia now?

Sending billions of American tax dollars to a foreign country with ZERO benefit to the United States isn't as pro-American as you people think it is.

The ONLY reason in the world for the US to be paying the majority of the cost for a European war is to make corrupt people rich.

Europe's economy is the same size as ours. They should be paying more than we are. They are not.

2 years ago 01/20/2023 12:05pm EST

re: TheAdultInTheRoom

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
WhatDaFuq? wrote:
Are you saying Viktor Yanukovych wasn't democratically elected?
p.s. I visited Ukraine in 2014 and have family that has lived there for the last 10 years. So, take your projections about your own lack of geographic awareness and shove them up your a**.
If you think the most corrupt country in Europe has clean elections you're a moron.

Thank you for confirming that the US didn’t overthrow the democratically elected government of Ukraine in 2014 and that the referendums in Crimea, Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson were not clean and can be summarily disregarded.

2 years ago 01/20/2023 12:26pm EST

re: GoodGollyMissLolly

GoodGollyMissLolly wrote:
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
If you think the most corrupt country in Europe has clean elections you're a moron.
Thank you for confirming that the US didn’t overthrow the democratically elected government of Ukraine in 2014 and that the referendums in Crimea, Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson were not clean and can be summarily disregarded.

Nice non sequitur.

Kim Jong-Un was "democratically" elected.

Elections in hopelessly corrupt countries like Ukraine are meaningless. The oligarchs run everything regardless of which puppet is put in the chair.

2 years ago 01/20/2023 12:43pm EST

re: OH...TX

Everyone agrees that Germany needs to do it’s part and give Ukraine tanks then.

Without these tanks this war is just a curry without 🌶, bland and without force

aljazeera.com

Germany heads for showdown over tanks for Ukraine

US defence secretary Lloyd Austin meets new German defence minister a day before allies meet to discuss military aid.

Link:www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/1/19/p...

2 years ago 01/20/2023 12:47pm EST

re: TheAdultInTheRoom

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
GoodGollyMissLolly wrote:
Thank you for confirming that the US didn’t overthrow the democratically elected government of Ukraine in 2014 and that the referendums in Crimea, Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson were not clean and can be summarily disregarded.
Nice non sequitur.
Kim Jong-Un was "democratically" elected.
Elections in hopelessly corrupt countries like Ukraine are meaningless. The oligarchs run everything regardless of which puppet is put in the chair.

You say elections in Ukraine are meaningless. This means that the morons in this thread claiming the "US overthrew the democratically elected president" in 2014 and that the referendums on annexation "reflect the will of the people" are wrong (I agree, they're wrong).

Are you also saying that Ukraine is so corrupt that it wasn't close to joining NATO, so Putin was lying when he used that as a rational for invading Ukraine?

2 years ago 01/20/2023 12:50pm EST

re: Indian Prince

Indian Prince wrote:
Everyone agrees that Germany needs to do it’s part and give Ukraine tanks then.
Without these tanks this war is just a curry without 🌶, bland and without force
Link:www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/1/19/p...

Germany largely paid for Russia's military with their gluttony for Russian energy. Germany is the largest economy in the EU. Germany is still providing more to Russia than they are to Ukraine and the war is a year old.

2 years ago 01/20/2023 1:03pm EST

re: WhatDaFuq?

WhatDaFuq? wrote:
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
Nice non sequitur.
Kim Jong-Un was "democratically" elected.
Elections in hopelessly corrupt countries like Ukraine are meaningless. The oligarchs run everything regardless of which puppet is put in the chair.
You say elections in Ukraine are meaningless. This means that the morons in this thread claiming the "US overthrew the democratically elected president" in 2014 and that the referendums on annexation "reflect the will of the people" are wrong (I agree, they're wrong).
Are you also saying that Ukraine is so corrupt that it wasn't close to joining NATO, so Putin was lying when he used that as a rational for invading Ukraine?

The Russian puppet that was overthrown was just as "democratically elected" as the western puppet that replaced him.

If Russia overthrew Mexico's government and installed a pro-Russian regime the US wouldn't just shrug its shoulders and accept it.

#12491

This post was removed.

2 years ago 01/20/2023 2:01pm EST

re: TheAdultInTheRoom

Anti-air defense are appearing on Moscow federal buildings… wonder why?

“We’ll take Kyiv in three days” pic.twitter.com/ztaiTSW63U
— Oryx (@oryxspioenkop) January 19, 2023

Tweet:twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/16161...

2 years ago 01/20/2023 3:24pm EST

re: Get ready for the storm

I 40% want Wagner to turn on Putin and I 60% think we're actually better off with Putin in control of the nukes. It's a lose-lose.

But this has to be noted. Definite friction between Putin and Wagner. Which has to be terrifying for Vlad. Expect more purges to ensure loyalty in the RU army to try to head off insurrection.

ISW
@TheStudyofWar
#Prigozhin and other notable voices in #Russia, such as prominent milblogger Igor Girkin, are carving out a new space to criticize Russian President Vladimir #Putin without fear of retribution. Putin has so far decided to not censor these voices.

2 years ago 01/20/2023 3:32pm EST

re: agip

It is no surprise that the people that are stupid enough to believe that Putin is waring in Ukraine to rid Ukraine of corruption just so happen to be the ones that voted for Trump because he was going to "drain the swamp' of US gov. corruption.

2 years ago 01/20/2023 3:38pm EST

re: agip

agip wrote:
I 40% want Wagner to turn on Putin and I 60% think we're actually better off with Putin in control of the nukes. It's a lose-lose.
But this has to be noted. Definite friction between Putin and Wagner. Which has to be terrifying for Vlad. Expect more purges to ensure loyalty in the RU army to try to head off insurrection.
ISW
@TheStudyofWar
#Prigozhin and other notable voices in #Russia, such as prominent milblogger Igor Girkin, are carving out a new space to criticize Russian President Vladimir #Putin without fear of retribution. Putin has so far decided to not censor these voices.

agip, if you're going to clutter the thread with on-topic posts, why don't you start your own thread?

2 years ago 01/20/2023 3:46pm EST

re: Victoria Nuland

Victoria Nuland wrote:
agip wrote:
I 40% want Wagner to turn on Putin and I 60% think we're actually better off with Putin in control of the nukes. It's a lose-lose.
But this has to be noted. Definite friction between Putin and Wagner. Which has to be terrifying for Vlad. Expect more purges to ensure loyalty in the RU army to try to head off insurrection.
ISW
@TheStudyofWar
#Prigozhin and other notable voices in #Russia, such as prominent milblogger Igor Girkin, are carving out a new space to criticize Russian President Vladimir #Putin without fear of retribution. Putin has so far decided to not censor these voices.
agip, if you're going to clutter the thread with on-topic posts, why don't you start your own thread?

Nicely done

2 years ago 01/20/2023 3:57pm EST

re: Real Obvi

Real Obvi wrote:
Victoria Nuland wrote:
agip, if you're going to clutter the thread with on-topic posts, why don't you start your own thread?
Nicely done

heh

this thread is by far the biggest thread I've started. Anyone remember how it came to be? There was a prior thread on the war but it devolved into being about US politics so it was given the heave-ho by the moderators. I saw an opportunity and I took it. The royalty checks are going to fund my retirement. Once they start appearing.

2 years ago 01/20/2023 4:23pm EST

re: SeattleSilver

SeattleSilver wrote:
ceccione wrote:
The GOP?
The democratic party has also been against universal healthcare for decades. Two right wing, pro war parties.
You are a CNN/Fox/MSNBC constipated sheeple.
Harming average americans by cheerleading more waste is completely unacceptable. In the end, you are helping americans lose, you are not beating Russia (or Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia....)
If you are going to cheerlead waste and dying americans from that waste, start paying for these americans' healthcare:
Link:www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/0...
I noted the GOP because they are the majority party in the House of Representatives, and that is where the relevant legislation would have to be proposed. You inferred a "pass" to the Democrats which was neither express nor implied. That's your mistake.
Your generalized slur about "CNN/Fox/MSNBC constipated sheeple" lessens your credibility on points. You have no idea where other posters get their news (I don't pay for a cable package that includes any of those networks; I have never watched Fox or MSNBC and haven't watched CNN in almost two decades). Buzz word allegations are made by unserious people.
Are we "beating" Russia? Unknown at this point. Are we weakening Russia? Signs point to "yes". Many think weakening a land grabbing, murderous, thieving, election-interfering, criminal refuge like Russia is a good thing. If you don't, that's your choice, but you aren't making an effective case for the other side. You haven't made an effective case for the aid being waste. You haven't explained when, if this isn't the right time, it would be the right time to stop Russian territorial expansion.
Your demands that we start increasing medical coverage are ridiculous. Not because it wouldn't be a good thing to do it, but because it is irrelevant to the conversation. We aren't members of Congress, and you and I both know that neither party is going to do it regardless of the Ukraine aid or the overall budget. It's like telling Putin he can't wage war until every Russian swears off vodka. There is no connection and it isn't going to happen. It is just a way of pretending to have an argument.

What signs are those that we are weakening Russia?

Ruble up vs. dollar since sanctions.

You don't mind getting tens of thousand or more Ukrainians and Russians killed to weaken Russia? Creating millions of refugees?

"..a land grabbing, murderous, thieving, election-interfering, criminal refuge like Russia"

Couldn't the same thing be said of America? Times ten?

This post was edited 15 seconds after it was posted.

2 years ago 01/20/2023 4:30pm EST

re: Newname

Newname wrote:
SeattleSilver wrote:
I noted the GOP because they are the majority party in the House of Representatives, and that is where the relevant legislation would have to be proposed. You inferred a "pass" to the Democrats which was neither express nor implied. That's your mistake.
Your generalized slur about "CNN/Fox/MSNBC constipated sheeple" lessens your credibility on points. You have no idea where other posters get their news (I don't pay for a cable package that includes any of those networks; I have never watched Fox or MSNBC and haven't watched CNN in almost two decades). Buzz word allegations are made by unserious people.
Are we "beating" Russia? Unknown at this point. Are we weakening Russia? Signs point to "yes". Many think weakening a land grabbing, murderous, thieving, election-interfering, criminal refuge like Russia is a good thing. If you don't, that's your choice, but you aren't making an effective case for the other side. You haven't made an effective case for the aid being waste. You haven't explained when, if this isn't the right time, it would be the right time to stop Russian territorial expansion.
Your demands that we start increasing medical coverage are ridiculous. Not because it wouldn't be a good thing to do it, but because it is irrelevant to the conversation. We aren't members of Congress, and you and I both know that neither party is going to do it regardless of the Ukraine aid or the overall budget. It's like telling Putin he can't wage war until every Russian swears off vodka. There is no connection and it isn't going to happen. It is just a way of pretending to have an argument.
What signs are those that we are weakening Russia?
Ruble up vs. dollar since sanctions.

russia is in a deep recession while the rest of the world is doing well.

MOSCOW, Dec 2 (Reuters) - Russia's economy is set to shrink by 2.5% next year, on top of a 3% contraction in 2022, a Reuters poll suggested on Friday, with stubbornly high inflation giving the central bank only limited room to cut interest rates.
Russia's economic landscape changed drastically after Moscow sent tens of thousands of troops into Ukraine on Feb. 24, triggering sweeping Western restrictions on its energy and financial sectors, including a partial freeze of Russian reserves, and leading scores of companies to exit the market.

reuters.com

Russia's more gradual economic contraction to extend into 2023

Alexander Marrow

Russia's economy is set to shrink by 2.5% next year, on top of a 3% contraction in 2022, a Reuters poll suggested on Friday, with stubbornly high inflation giving the central bank only limited room to cut interest rates.

Link:www.reuters.com/markets/russias-more-g...

2 years ago 01/20/2023 4:32pm EST

re: TriBoy

agip wrote:
Newname wrote:
What signs are those that we are weakening Russia?
Ruble up vs. dollar since sanctions.
russia is in a deep recession while the rest of the world is doing well.
MOSCOW, Dec 2 (Reuters) - Russia's economy is set to shrink by 2.5% next year, on top of a 3% contraction in 2022, a Reuters poll suggested on Friday, with stubbornly high inflation giving the central bank only limited room to cut interest rates.
Russia's economic landscape changed drastically after Moscow sent tens of thousands of troops into Ukraine on Feb. 24, triggering sweeping Western restrictions on its energy and financial sectors, including a partial freeze of Russian reserves, and leading scores of companies to exit the market.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/russias-more-gradual-economic-contraction-extend-into-2023-2022-12-02/

inflation is RU is quite bad. Which explains the strong ruble - you can get 20% for your savings in RU apparently. Which attracts a lot of ruble buyers. Not really a case for the economy's strength.

Reuters:

Inflation, one of the key concerns among Russian households, is expected to accelerate to 12.1%, from 8.4% in 2021, according to the poll. Russia targets inflation at 4%.

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